you know what? we have it pretty good

[browniehound]

i hear yah there!

4 out of every 5 managers UPS hires are very qualified and can handle the job. however, the entitiy that is UPS takes these qualified managers, handcuffs them, blinds them, beats the sh-t out of them, pushes them down a flight of stairs, then they pick this battered person up, dust him off, and say "ok go manage this ______! (sort/preload/driver area/office)"

the manager that screams at you has four other managers screaming at him, has no union protection, and has absolutely no empowerment to make his own or your own life at UPS easier.

...then this manager starts their official career at another company after five years of service, where they will be recognized, rewarded, motivated, and empowered.

Hoser, for someone who has worked at Fed-ex for such a long time, you sure know a hell of a lot about how business is run at UPS.

 

[hoser]

Hoser, for someone who has worked at Fed-ex for such a long time, you sure know a hell of a lot about how business is run at UPS.

I've gone through three supervisors on my sort in one year. There's a consistent pattern. They're smart people who aren't empowered.

That's my take on it, not my perception of reality like you suggest..

 

[brazenbrown]

the team concept is nice, but it does not work for a unionized environment, let alone the UPS unionized environment. the team concept works incredibly well at FedEx Express, and it's the reason why they're not unionized nor will they become unionized. but in an environment where we have a contract, it doesn't work. that's the reality of unionized environments. i hate the teamwork card; the teamwork card is played to me by management when i initiate a grievance because it's an easy cop out for them to make me look like the dick.

Perhaps you've not been as fortunate as others who have had the opportunity to be in a functioning team environment at UPS. It is evident by your response that you don't believe a teamwork environment can be achieved. The team concept does work at UPS and other union shops. I've been in a few different operations where it has. This will not work unless the right conditions are in place, namely, fair tell it like it is leadership, good communication, and a little enthusiasm doesn't hurt either. In return once the leadership has proven itself to be straight forward and has earned the respect and trust of their employees the atmosphere does change. I've seen this happen at the division and at center level of operations at UPS.

Jim Casey said:
"Good men working together for a common goal can accomplish anything"
He was saying this about UPSer's and he is the one who invited the union in!

Union organizations all with contracts:

Baseball
Football
Hockey

Just to name a few... All union and all don't get along all the time. While many of these people are paid millions to make it happen they still squabble, fight, do drugs, get divorced and have their problems. However, when they're functioning with the spirit of teamwork and the realization that when working together things just go better they're able to succeed beyond their imaginations. Most champions are successful as a team, individualism doesn't win titles. Again, the right coach or manager with a teamwork environment will win over individualism every time.

to think that circumventing the contract 'for the benefit of the team' will help motivate a unionized environment and curb difficult-to-manage employees is not only preposterous, it's nearly impossible. unionized employees pay good money for the union, the company is willing to be subject to the union, but in return, the company will demand a lot out of the employees; which is perfectly fine; it's their business. however, insisting that employees should give more for the benefit of the company is the first sign of our rights slowly eroding at the front-line level.

I don't look at it like circumventing the contract rather planning for the sick calls. We all know some centers get more sick calls than others (probably not team inspired or good leadership in those centers) and they have to plan on them. I've talked with my center management about how days off work and they actually plan for the sick calls based on their own center's trend, I think ours was an average of two a day. I just don't see how you could blindly run your business knowing how many people are going to come to work and not plan for it.

Perhaps I'm too naive and most people would prefer to struggle their whole careers fighting the company rather than working together and making it a much more pleasant place to work.

 

[hoser]

I don't look at it like circumventing the contract rather planning for the sick calls. We all know some centers get more sick calls than others (probably not team inspired or good leadership in those centers) and they have to plan on them. I've talked with my center management about how days off work and they actually plan for the sick calls based on their own center's trend, I think ours was an average of two a day. I just don't see how you could blindly run your business knowing how many people are going to come to work and not plan for it.

Perhaps I'm too naive and most people would prefer to struggle their whole careers fighting the company rather than working together and making it a much more pleasant place to work.

Yes, you should plan for it, not punish the employees who follow the rules and are taking what they are entitled to.

This isn't a career. This place is way too screwed up to be a career. Motivate me and maybe I'll take it a bit more seriously.

 

[brazenbrown]

Yes, you should plan for it, not punish the employees who follow the rules and are taking what they are entitled to.

Why is the blame for not being able to have the day off put on management when the reason is because there are excess sick calls from your peers??

This is far less likely to happen when the center is functioning like a team!!

This isn't a career. This place is way too screwed up to be a career. Motivate me and maybe I'll take it a bit more seriously.

Believe it or not many people do make UPS their career. You're obviously in a situation where your environment is not working for you due to poor management leadership qualities or your own inability to motivate yourself. That's too bad because a you're experiencing what can make employees bitter. You're probably feeling burnt out and really don't know why you even bother with going to work at all...At least that's the impression I get.

Some of that does come back on you, although an effective leader will know how to motivate his workforce, you know what they say...You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Good luck!

 

[Brown and Down]

Hoser, for someone who has worked at Fed-ex for such a long time, you sure know a hell of a lot about how business is run at UPS.

You get a fair and decent Manager then you get an a@s h#$e manager and so on and so on and so on and so on. These managers come and go, get fired , demoted , quit , transferred etc. As soon as you get one you can't stand anymore, he's gone. Been here 20 years and had my job threatned by half of the managers I worked for. I just do my job the way they taught me and don't give them any ammo to use against me. Guess what I'm still here and they aren't.

 

[over9five]

"Why is the blame for not being able to have the day off put on management when the reason is because there are excess sick calls from your peers?? "

Because the management team should have dealt with this problem long ago. (And NOT by punishing the good people). In my center, it's the same people banging in all the time. I say this to my sup when they whine about manning. "I see a lot of familiar names on that sick list, Sup".
They are obviously way over their contractually allowed call offs. How 'bout some disciplinary action???

And if they are NOT "excess sick calls" (In other words, it is just drivers using their UPS supplied sick days), then the management team is FAILING by not having enough cover drivers. Hire more people, easy fix.

 

[9/5Everyday]

If it wasn't for mgmt. i'd love my job.

 

[brazenbrown]

Because the management team should have dealt with this problem long ago. (And NOT by punishing the good people). In my center, it's the same people banging in all the time. I say this to my sup when they whine about manning. "I see a lot of familiar names on that sick list, Sup".
They are obviously way over their contractually allowed call offs. How 'bout some disciplinary action???

Hey over,

You're absolutely right accountability plays a big part in taking control of a center, you also earn respect from the drivers who do show up and do their jobs day in and day out!

I say if you're not holding your people accountable you are the problem and don't belong in a supervisory position.

 

[quinnellabella]

can you tell me how good the dental benefits are?

 

[toonertoo]

Hey over,

You're absolutely right accountability plays a big part in taking control of a center, you also earn respect from the drivers who do show up and do their jobs day in and day out!

I say if you're not holding your people accountable you are the problem and don't belong in a supervisory position.

Both excellent points. We have a few, not many, but I dont think the people who show up every day, and need a legit day off, should be punished for the ones who push it to the limit.

 

[brazenbrown]

Both excellent points. We have a few, not many, but I dont think the people who show up every day, and need a legit day off, should be punished for the ones who push it to the limit.

Tooner,

If your center only has a few "people who push it to the limit" management should be able to deal with them and still take care of the good people. I totally agree with you that those who are diligent must be taken care of and I would bet that the manager that who knows his people is fully aware of who he should take care. If he does not, then he is ineffective and will have mutiny on his hands. The center will be in disarray and the employees will lose faith and it's all downhill from there....

 

[toonertoo]

My center is small, and basically all good people. I think right now we are putting out 24 runs, and it should be about 26. WE are thin on extras because of comp, firings, terminations, and resignations. So every day they can spare about one call off.
To their credit, I ve seen guys go driving and then someone comes back and then they are on call or getting a slim check, that doesnt work well for anyone. I remember working when I was on call, and its a pain and a strain on the budget, and causes really bad attitudes.
My poor boss says he is going to retire, coz he doesnt even get to run the center, someone far away tells him how to do it, theres no fun in it anymore, and he cant explain the numbers, or the decisions, and back them up. I think he said , not a quote, but basically, everything is lies anymore. He sounds like us, fed up, and he has the time in to go, and I always say GO, if you have the time, Life is too short.
As for the downhill part, it was ready to hit rock bottom when he came. He is quite well liked. When he leaves, God knows who or what we will get.

 

[hoser]

Believe it or not many people do make UPS their career. You're obviously in a situation where your environment is not working for you due to poor management leadership qualities or your own inability to motivate yourself. That's too bad because a you're experiencing what can make employees bitter. You're probably feeling burnt out and really don't know why you even bother with going to work at all...At least that's the impression I get.

Some of that does come back on you, although an effective leader will know how to motivate his workforce, you know what they say...You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Good luck!

Luck? Yeah, I'll need it.

Believe me, it takes a LOT for me to become un-motivated. Never has a place had a goal that I cannot achieve, until UPS. Like the hub. If I can be sure I can get out within three hours, I'll work my ass off. If there's a mess that I can clean up knowing that area will stay clean and help the team, I'll clean it up.

But the reality is, we have trailers in the hub coming in and in and in without notice, if I clean up a mess, another one will develop, and while cleaning that one, the original clean-up will become a mess. Supervisors have never asked me how I can become motivated, which they don't neccessarily have to, but it's good HR. I'll break my back to lift a box, that box will break open, and I'll see that it's full of wal-mart flyers. That just shoots up my morale 400%

Now I'm doing cover driving in the summer, and, well, I don't have as bad of an attitude. I love doing the courier thing, whether as a bike courier or with FX. UPS is almost as hard as the biking but with a lot better pay and benefits, and I love not having a boss on my back. And because I'm 21, I don't mind working 12 hours a day 5 days a week between classes.

Don't get me wrong, this place isn't so bad, but there's a damn good reason why I no longer care in the hub, and several good reasons why I withdrew my application to become a part time supervisor. One of which was that I could develop my leadership and practical skills in the Army reserves a lot better than at this place.

And hey, all the misery is worth that tuition reimbursement check I get every few months.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Yes, you should plan for it, not punish the employees who follow the rules and are taking what they are entitled to.

This isn't a career. This place is way too screwed up to be a career. Motivate me and maybe I'll take it a bit more seriously.

Hoser,
You really, really need to rethink what a career is. Most UPSers can retire from this CAREER between the age of 50 and 55 and live better than most people without ever working again!!! Imagine that! Don't ever tell a 20 year driver that he/she doesn't have a career. There are thousands of folks out there that wished they had it as good as you. How many companies out there reimburse PART-TIME employees for going to school? How many companies give PART-TIME employees the type of benefits you have?

You know what? we have it pretty good

You are a smart guy...I know you see that!

 

[area43]

Hose, dude you just can't live your life this way. Hose if I had to guess your age by reading your post, I would guess you were a bitter,angry 70 year old man. I say that in a respectfull and helpful way. Believe or not hose I have read alot of your post and you are a very bright individual. Work, yea its bad at times,but you have to look at any positives you can find. Lifer is right, dont you see hose, you set yourself up with this thread. Dont be a hypocrite. I grew up in a family of tuff love. My mother was stern but loving, My father and Grandpa were hard core pull yourself up by your in boot straps, be glad you have food and shelter type old guys. Hose your not fooling anyone. Your miserable and I dont like to see you in that state of mind.

Let me break it down for you in a 24 hr period. First, we sleep for about a third of that, then we work for another third(more or less ft/pt). Then hose, you come on the bc site and spend another, maybe 1/6(estimated, only you know). Do you start to see my point. I feel you are consumed with anger and that anger is going to kill you quicker than smoking 2 paks a day. Hose have you ever meet those people that take the job home with them. They take it on vacation(mtn bike riding) with them. I believe that is why you ride recklessly the way you do. Maybe its to get rid or channel that anger out of you. I could be wrong, but Im sure you feel better after your done. Im saying this, not to be mean, but to help you out. I believe personally, in helping people. Its why God put us here on earth. I just picture you as a guy that dosent smile alot. Maybe Im wrong.

Hose, I guess its all up to you. Only you can make that decision. If you do make it. The road wont be easy. Hey just come on the bc site and will help you out. Sometimes I need help, its great to have someone to lean on. No matter how tuff and hard those walls are built. There is a real human bean, with emotions, feelings and most of all a heart. Well hose, I hope you dont get to upset with me. I just had to speak my peace on the matter. area 43 out. ps Hose I know your going on vacation, hope you will catch this post. take care ( :

 

[hoser]

Hoser,
You really, really need to rethink what a career is. Most UPSers can retire from this CAREER between the age of 50 and 55 and live better than most people without ever working again!!! Imagine that! Don't ever tell a 20 year driver that he/she doesn't have a career. There are thousands of folks out there that wished they had it as good as you. How many companies out there reimburse PART-TIME employees for going to school? How many companies give PART-TIME employees the type of benefits you have?

You know what? we have it pretty good

You are a smart guy...I know you see that!

I should have said this place isn't a career for me which is what I meant. For someone with HS and a willingness to work their ass off for a great wage, UPS is great; don't get me wrong.

Hose, dude you just can't live your life this way. Hose if I had to guess your age by reading your post, I would guess you were a bitter,angry 70 year old man. I say that in a respectfull and helpful way. Believe or not hose I have read alot of your post and you are a very bright individual. Work, yea its bad at times,but you have to look at any positives you can find. Lifer is right, dont you see hose, you set yourself up with this thread. Dont be a hypocrite. I grew up in a family of tuff love. My mother was stern but loving, My father and Grandpa were hard core pull yourself up by your in boot straps, be glad you have food and shelter type old guys. Hose your not fooling anyone. Your miserable and I dont like to see you in that state of mind.

Let me break it down for you in a 24 hr period. First, we sleep for about a third of that, then we work for another third(more or less ft/pt). Then hose, you come on the bc site and spend another, maybe 1/6(estimated, only you know). Do you start to see my point. I feel you are consumed with anger and that anger is going to kill you quicker than smoking 2 paks a day. Hose have you ever meet those people that take the job home with them. They take it on vacation(mtn bike riding) with them. I believe that is why you ride recklessly the way you do. Maybe its to get rid or channel that anger out of you. I could be wrong, but Im sure you feel better after your done. Im saying this, not to be mean, but to help you out. I believe personally, in helping people. Its why God put us here on earth. I just picture you as a guy that dosent smile alot. Maybe Im wrong.

Hose, I guess its all up to you. Only you can make that decision. If you do make it. The road wont be easy. Hey just come on the bc site and will help you out. Sometimes I need help, its great to have someone to lean on. No matter how tuff and hard those walls are built. There is a real human bean, with emotions, feelings and most of all a heart. Well hose, I hope you dont get to upset with me. I just had to speak my peace on the matter. area 43 out. ps Hose I know your going on vacation, hope you will catch this post. take care ( :

Again, I love life, which is why I hate working at the hub at UPS. I'm driving now for the summer which I love. It's like the hub; it's fast, hard, and challenging. But my energy is spent achieving something that only I myself can achieve. The challenge isn't dealing with my co-workers with the maturity of a 13 year old, it's managing 10 pu stops within a 5 mile radius that close within 45 minutes. I'm not standing in one spot doing the exact same task for four-five hours.

As a driver, we have a it good. In the hub, ugh. The union and tuition reimbursement is what makes it worth it. I dread going back there in September, and that's why I'm looking outwards.

 

[UPS Lifer]

I should have said this place isn't a career for me which is what I meant. For someone with HS and a willingness to work their ass off for a great wage, UPS is great; don't get me wrong.

Point taken. Thanks for clearing it up!

I respect your decision not to make UPS a career. UPS is not the only place you can go and make a career. But the grass is not always greener on the other side... either!!!