8 and 5 key discipline

[Solidarity413]

A couple weeks ago, I gave an extra workshheet of these questions to my 3 year old to fill out for me. I told her it was important UPS business. So, she took it seriously & scribbled as best she could.
The next time my sup gave me the questions to fill out, I gave him my daughters copy. It was funny. The poor kid did not know what to say except that he would review the scibbles & get back to me later. I guess that was pretty funnty also!
I realize why UPS does this. They try to wiggle their way out of any type of liabilty lawsuit.
There is no such thing as an "accident". See....he knew his safety answers so obviously we are not to blame!

 

[iowa boy]

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!! We have a winner. You my friend hit the perverbial nail on the head with that line right there.

 

[soberups]

Good suggestion; thankfully the employee working on the slide isn't affected much by it. I only work for short periods on it ( much shorter now that it's messed up)

The problem is nothing is done to address it, like every other saftey issue. You can complain, file a grievance to H&S, and nothing is done.

Like clerical fatigue mats I complained about in January. Have not seen one of those mats.

UPS doesn't care about saftey until something negative happens that affects their bonuses and or insurance rates. That's how it is..

I have found that when it comes to actually fixing safety issues you are far better off just filing a grievance instead of wasting time with a useless Safety Committee.

 

[UPSer21]

There should not be any discipline, or so I've never seen any at least. If you are a suicide bomber when it comes to taking the test then its possible though. You would probably just be hounded about knowing them and then expected to ace the test the next month, but some supervisors are instructed to administer the test bi-monthly (the most I've personally seen). However there is really no reason not to know them. They take 6 seconds to memorize. The DOK's for a part time union worker are pretty simple. Know your PCM, know the 5 & 8 keys, power zone, your assigned assembly area, where to find your designated assembly area listing (if your hub or center has it. Most have a blueprint of the building showing where your emergency assembly area is.), who can secure a belt, and who can start it after it has been shut down, and finally know who can lock out equipment. Which you don't have the authority to lock out equipment anyway since your probably either a preloader, pickoff, sorter, or w/s. And that is exactly what you would tell them for that particular question. As far as these being "dropped" off the DOK's.. I wouldn't count on it. The keys are preached at all UPSes everywhere. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about discipline especially if your at a large hub. Trust me there are a lot of people in the hubs that do not know them. Sad but true. If your in a small center than I could see how management would incorporate scare tactics into their staff. I'm sure this test varies from hub to hub, and I've only ever worked in one hub so any information I give could be completely off so don't attack me if your center or hub is different. Just make sure your shift doesn't fail the ketter audits! Because if you do... the DOK's become much more intense, and much more frequent. Also be sure to use your saftey chain

 

[some1else]

you know some people couldnt memorize that many lines regardless of how long they spent. different people learn differently and some simply cannot memorize things.

personally i look over the cards before a s/v and i do fine however some people simply cant do it.

i cannot remember 5 stops no matte what! i have to check the next stop after i complete each one and then repeat it over and over in my head as im driving there. "if im alone i just leave my diad in the clip and look at it as im driving

 

[raceanoncr]

Same drivel from overpaid box handlers. I don't get paid to learn it, Its unsafe, its childash, Union say's I don't have to know it, Not in the contract, give it break learn it be done with it.

OK, (sniff, sniff), I will. I'm sorry (sniff). Geez, I'll grow up, I promise (sniff). Thanks for the talk, DAD!

 

[MSGTDEL]

I'm reading this and other blogs about UPS thinking "thank God I was able to retire from this place". If I were still driving I'd be subject to all the harassment that management put it's employee through.

 

[soberups]

I'm reading this and other blogs about UPS thinking "thank God I was able to retire from this place". If I were still driving I'd be subject to all the harassment that management put it's employee through.

I have found that "harassment" at UPS is all a state of mind.

A supervisor harasses an employee for one reason; he is afraid for his own job and has no way to deal with that fear other than to project it onto his employee.

Harrassment is nothing more than the impossible expectations of a corporate desk-jockey or IE guy being transferred down thru the operations sup and onto the driver.

The sup is just a mouthpiece, a conduit between the guy in the truck who does the work and the guy upstairs who makes the decisions. A sup is sort of like the car salesman who keeps going into the hidden office with your offer, only to come back with a counter-offer. He's just a messenger; he has no authority or ability to actually do anything.

When I feel that I am being harrassed, instead of getting angry I choose to feel pity for the individual who is inflicting it on me. I have job security---he doesnt. I am getting a raise this year----he isnt.

If I do get angry, I choose to project that anger upward at the true source of the problem instead of projecting it upon the messenger.

Last but not least I keep in mind the fact that when push comes to shove I can always make them more miserable than they can make me. If they want to turn on the heat, I will turn it up even hotter.

I have been here for 22 years. I come to work everyday with a positive attitude, and most of the time I go home with one too.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I have found that "harassment" at UPS is all a state of mind.

A supervisor harasses an employee for one reason; he is afraid for his own job and has no way to deal with that fear other than to project it onto his employee.

Harrassment is nothing more than the impossible expectations of a corporate desk-jockey or IE guy being transferred down thru the operations sup and onto the driver.

The sup is just a mouthpiece, a conduit between the guy in the truck who does the work and the guy upstairs who makes the decisions. A sup is sort of like the car salesman who keeps going into the hidden office with your offer, only to come back with a counter-offer. He's just a messenger; he has no authority or ability to actually do anything.

When I feel that I am being harrassed, instead of getting angry I choose to feel pity for the individual who is inflicting it on me. I have job security---he doesnt. I am getting a raise this year----he isnt.

If I do get angry, I choose to project that anger upward at the true source of the problem instead of projecting it upon the messenger.

Last but not least I keep in mind the fact that when push comes to shove I can always make them more miserable than they can make me. If they want to turn on the heat, I will turn it up even hotter.

I have been here for 22 years. I come to work everyday with a positive attitude, and most of the time I go home with one too.

I think this is the key to success at UPS. Stay positive and remember that ( at least if you're friend/T or have some juice) you're making good money and it's mostly either jealousy and /or unreasonable expectations from above that get the supervisors and even mangers going on your case. As long as you keep short-term goals and ambition in mind, the long term will work itself out regardless of the percieved attitude problems of the people you're working for.

 

[hurricanegunner]

We have had several drivers in our building who either got hurt or involved in an accident, and were taken off the road for not knowing this nonsense. They worked four hours on the preload and four hours on the local sort to get their eight hours. The union took managements side on this and would not back up the drivers.

 

[Red Dawn]

Hey guys, sorry if this has already been posted. I can't seem to find it if it has though.

I don't really want to argue about the 8 and 5 keys we all have our opinions about them and I'm sure it won't matter when something new comes out next year and we drop them like we did Habits.
What I am wondering is if anyone has ever heard of anyone being disciplined over not knowing them? I mean if someone gives a reasonable attempt to show they know them but they still don't. Any advice? I'm an inside worker so I don't know anything about the 10-point commentary but I'm thinking about driving so same goes with that Thanks guys!

they tried it hear...ups lost decision at panel.

 

[anonymous6]

Because by participating in it you validate it.

UPS only wants to pretend that it is concerned with the safety of its employees so that it can pass an audit and avoid OSHA fines.

Instead of making real, meaningful improvements to its vehicles, equipment, facilities and time allowances, UPS creates a hollow "illusion" of safety thru buzzwords and acronyms.

The idea that you can blow out a 25 yr old package car with no power steering or 3 point belt, send a driver out onto a public road in that vehicle with 12 hrs of work, yell at him for failing to do it in the "allowed" 8.2 hrs, and then try to pretend that you give a rats ass about his "safety"....is both absurd and insulting. The 2nd grade-level word games only make it worse.

Right on !

 

[Dustyroads]

In our building they give us a written test on the 8 & 5 keys, putting a written test form in each driver's mail box. For the last 10 years of so, I just turn mine upside down in the box, I haven't filled one out yet. When asked about the tests, i tell them I'll get them done tomorrow. Tomorrow hasn't come yet, and no one in our building has ever been displined for failure to answer the questions. I've driven 30 years without an accident, and only one injury in 1987. If I haven't figured it out by now, well, chances are, their little quiz won't help much.

 

[Theichii]

We had a little pcm today while waiting for the last feeder to get to our center. Our center manager told us that if we did not know the S&V or the Keys we would be given talk withs or warnings...Two days ago we had a driver given a warning for talking on his cell phone while driving... seems like they are just making excuses to write people up to tell district that they are disciplining problems. The center manager called me today i answered and promptly said "I know its 1900 and we're supposed to be in right now but let me pull over while i talk to you." So i pulled over he said "it's 1900 where are you?" i answered i'm staring at the building about 500 yds away. You called so i pulled over." he asked me why i even bothered and i told him he may have had something important to say. When i got into the building he locked himself in his office... Dunno i was just in a visecious mood today

 

[iowa boy]

We had a little pcm today while waiting for the last feeder to get to our center. Our center manager told us that if we did not know the S&V or the Keys we would be given talk withs or warnings...Two days ago we had a driver given a warning for talking on his cell phone while driving... seems like they are just making excuses to write people up to tell district that they are disciplining problems. The center manager called me today i answered and promptly said "I know its 1900 and we're supposed to be in right now but let me pull over while i talk to you." So i pulled over he said "it's 1900 where are you?" i answered i'm staring at the building about 500 yds away. You called so i pulled over." he asked me why i even bothered and i told him he may have had something important to say. When i got into the building he locked himself in his office... Dunno i was just in a visecious mood today

Next time he calls, just don't answer the phone. When he gets pissy at you for not answering, just tell him you dont want to get warned about talking on the phone while driving. Puts the problem with the cell phone back in his lap to deal with.

 

[gandydancer]

... I hear 2 people got walked out on night sort for not knowing the 8/5...

I got my check last month for 4+ hours for being walked out late last year. And I haven't located it yet (I've been out on Workmans' Comp... and Gallagher Basset had to cut me a "voluntary" 10% penalty on a check they held up because UPS supposedly told them I was on TAW, and I've got another grievance in because they didn't pay for one shift on my last day at work for a couple months) but UPSers.com indicates they've cut me another for 40 hours (well, 41 actually -- but the extra was a different screw up) because they dicked around with a couple hours missing pay for 10 weeks. I HOPE they try to discipline me for for not memorizing something they've never paid me to memorize. Free money is the best balm for the aggravation of dealing with these clowns.

 

[evilleace]

I do think you should learn the methods it is not that hard, but that being said they are only there to cover UPS butt if you get hurt I was told to learn them so I did but I have only been asked to recite them when ketter was coming. Bottom line learn them it is not hard. I am being $9.50 an hr to unload or preload not recite to them I refuse to do it while I work I will wither stop or they can ask me later.

 

[hurricanegunner]

Once we do memorize this idiotic nonsense, they'll come up with some more idiotic nonsense for us to memorize. We dropped the six safe work methods, we dropped the habits, and soon we'll drop the eight and five keys. Blah, blah, blah.....

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Once we do memorize this idiotic nonsense, they'll come up with some more idiotic nonsense for us to memorize. We dropped the six safe work methods, we dropped the habits, and soon we'll drop the eight and five keys. Blah, blah, blah.....

Good point. Funny they can't stick with the same acronym for more than 2-3 years without trying something new ( and more difficult to remember). It's almost a game.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Good point. Funny they can't stick with the same acronym for more than 2-3 years without trying something new ( and more difficult to remember). It's almost a game.

Sadly it's a game that the house will always win.