California is a sorry excuse for a state

rickyb

Well-Known Member
"Germany is sooo much better", "capitalism is evil and oppressive", "it's so unfair I have to work over forty hours a week and don't get a month and a half off", "like totally redistribute the wealth"......
View attachment 171184
Get a job pinko and put down the Marx.
maybe america was one of the best countries to live in right after WWII, but certainly not these days. its way behind the times!

i want you to report back to me when was the last time america legally lowered its work week to 40 hours, and how much did americans have to work before that and is america overdue to lower the work week once again.
 

Fred's Myth

Nonhyphenated American
maybe america was one of the best countries to live in right after WWII, but certainly not these days. its way behind the times!

i want you to report back to me when was the last time america legally lowered its work week to 40 hours, and how much did americans have to work before that and is america overdue to lower the work week once again.
I seem to remember that the U.S. yanked (pun intended) most of the rest of the world back into stability after two world wars. How many have paid their reparations?

Artificially setting both the minimum wage, and work week can have unintended consequences. Next, you'll be demanding a basic income. Try working two jobs (maybe one at McDonalds) and donating one income to the underemployed. Then you can legitimately complain.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
I seem to remember that the U.S. yanked (pun intended) most of the rest of the world back into stability after two world wars. How many have paid their reparations?

Artificially setting both the minimum wage, and work week can have unintended consequences. Next, you'll be demanding a basic income. Try working two jobs (maybe one at McDonalds) and donating one income to the underemployed. Then you can legitimately complain.
no one job is quite enough for everyone. i dont think anyone should have to work more than 40 hours and i also think we should be working less since its been 75 years since the work week was legally lowered.

i agree setting the min wage too high can have unintended consequences but the same can be said for not having one, or having one too low. lets not forget, even if you get the minimum wage exactly right, thats not saying much having a good portion of hte population working min wage. if i was gona have a mostly low paying service sector economy, then i would certainly want it worker controlled coops.

the minimum income is an admirable reformist idea but is by no means a replacement to worker controlled cooperatives OR reducing consumerism.

well we know america joined wwII late. FDR called mussolini `that admirable italian gentleman` i believe. and you did unnecessarily drop the atomic bomb which killed alot of civilians. post wwII america destroyed democracies around the world and installed dictators, and invaded countries like vietnam and iraq. i certainly dont believe america wanted democracy around the world, it doesnt even like it in its own country. you have society and government controlled by the rich and thats what it enforces around the world. thats interesting what you said about reparations, please tell me.
 

Route 66

Slapped Upside-da-Head Member
...and you did unnecessarily drop the atomic bomb which killed alot of civilians.
and even more civilians would have ultimately died had Truman not made the decision to drop the bombs. Hirohito vowed to fight til the bitter end. It was the devastation he observed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki which made him suddenly change his tune.

Far more Japanese civilians were killed in previous conventional B-29 firebombing raids than from the two atomic bombs combined.

There’s no doubt it was a terrible thing to have happen - but I believe that it was a terrible thing that had to happen. After all, it wasn’t us who who rained devastation on their naval fleet as most of their sailors were asleep early one Sunday morning just for :censored2:s ‘n giggles.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
and even more civilians would have ultimately died had Truman not made the decision to drop the bombs. Hirohito vowed to fight til the bitter end. It was the devastation he observed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki which made him suddenly change his tune.

Far more Japanese civilians were killed in previous conventional B-29 firebombing raids than from the two atomic bombs combined.

There’s no doubt it was a terrible thing to have happen - but I believe that it was a terrible thing that had to happen. After all, it wasn’t us who who rained devastation on their naval fleet as most of their sailors were asleep early one Sunday morning just for :censored2:s ‘n giggles.
ok i can definitely pull up some quotes on the atomic bomb...but not now.

i thought i recall howard zinn US first did an act of war with its sanctions on japan or something...ill check it out again later.

but right now ill say i doubt theres any justification for killing tons of civilians with an atomic bomb.
 

Route 66

Slapped Upside-da-Head Member
but right now ill say i doubt theres any justification for killing tons of civilians with an atomic bomb.
The point I’m making though, would it have been okay if those civilians had been killed with conventional bombs instead?

I’m just saying this because you mentioned using atomic bombs specifically.

I agree with you concerning Vietnam and Iraq.

I’m thankful that we no longer wage war the way we used to - where civilians were considered fair game, by all involved parties. The Japanese and Germans were no strangers to inflicting warfare on civilians either, and had they been able to reach our shores you can bet your bottom dollar they’d have been getting ours as well.

The Japanese even attached bombs to helium balloons, letting the winds carry them westward on the chance they would detonate over the U.S. One unfortunate family in Oregon I believe it was, fell victim to one of them. There was no discretion. Times were different then than they are now. In fact it’s even a bit ludicrous to say things like “you dropped an atomic bomb”. We didn’t do anything. None of us were alive back then. Just like I can’t go up to a Japanese person today and say “Hey, that was a real :censored2:ty thing you did at Pearl that day”
 

Atemoe

Member
Prison Town. Lol
It's funny you say that. After I left UPS, I applied with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. After a year I got the job, and was super excited to start. They offered me High Desert State Prison in Susanville. I took it and was glad I did. I have been in the Department now for 3 years and it's crazy how much money I make along with the benefits. When I left UPS I was making $20 an hour. I'm making $35 now and it will keep going up till I am topped out after 7 years. My health insurance is only $300 a month with a family of 4. I don't pay for vision or dental either. It's free. And also there is no more lifting packages and walking into every building in downtown Sacramento hoping I can find parking in an alleyway. I only work 8 hours a day and can swap with my partners for extra days off. Also I get 1 sick day a month and 13 hours of vacation a month. It's crazy how good California is to it's law enforcement officers. But our Union is unbeatable. They keep negotiating better packages. I won't ever look back at UPS.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
It's funny you say that. After I left UPS, I applied with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. After a year I got the job, and was super excited to start. They offered me High Desert State Prison in Susanville. I took it and was glad I did. I have been in the Department now for 3 years and it's crazy how much money I make along with the benefits. When I left UPS I was making $20 an hour. I'm making $35 now and it will keep going up till I am topped out after 7 years. My health insurance is only $300 a month with a family of 4. I don't pay for vision or dental either. It's free. And also there is no more lifting packages and walking into every building in downtown Sacramento hoping I can find parking in an alleyway. I only work 8 hours a day and can swap with my partners for extra days off. Also I get 1 sick day a month and 13 hours of vacation a month. It's crazy how good California is to it's law enforcement officers. But our Union is unbeatable. They keep negotiating better packages. I won't ever look back at UPS.
Further evidence of why California is in such bad financial shape.
Good for you though!
 

Atemoe

Member
Further evidence of why California is in such bad financial shape.
Good for you though!
And I agree, to a point. I'm going to retire at 55 with a 2.5 retirement pension. I'm 39 now so hopefully I'll see it in full. The stress is a lot different than any other job as far as mental stress. Some days you have an easy day, and some days you get held over for a fight on the yard. Which, hey at overtime being time an a half makes a nice amount of money. But you can't leave the prison walls when you're in there. No cell phones either. And you're dealing with convicted felons all day long. So we get paid what we are worth and that is no question.
 

Atemoe

Member
The job pays what it does to attract and keep employees. It's a high stress job and turnover has always been an issue for the Dept. Of Corrections.
True, but when I was with UPS the turnover rate was higher. The retirements are killing the CDCR right now. I haven't seen 1 officer quit since I have been an officer. And I am at my second prison now after transferring closer to home. Walkoffs happen, but the majority of staff walked off are not officers. Believe me when I say that most officers aren't going to give up after all the testing, the Academy and the pay and benefits that come. The officers know how mentally straining it can be but if you can handle 8 hours of being a leader then it's not so bad.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
ok i can definitely pull up some quotes on the atomic bomb...but not now.

i thought i recall howard zinn US first did an act of war with its sanctions on japan or something...ill check it out again later.

but right now ill say i doubt theres any justification for killing tons of civilians with an atomic bomb.
Japan inflicted terrible loss of life on China and all through the eastern Pacific. As Route 66 said dropping the bomb was a necessary evil. And while you may be sympathetic to the Soviet Union the reason we installed dictators was to stop the spread of communism. The Russians and Chinese were determined to see the whole world communist. We fought fire with fire. And it wasn't just a matter of competing economic systems as the governments of communist countries believed it was their right to control the lives of their citizens. The angle you take suggests you are sympathetic to those ideas because you're always critical of the U.S.. It's a shame that most Eastern Europeans and citizens of the former Soviet Union see communism as a disastrously failed system but there are those on the far Left in this country that still toy with the idea, thinking they can get it right.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
Japan inflicted terrible loss of life on China and all through the eastern Pacific. As Route 66 said dropping the bomb was a necessary evil. And while you may be sympathetic to the Soviet Union the reason we installed dictators was to stop the spread of communism. The Russians and Chinese were determined to see the whole world communist. We fought fire with fire. And it wasn't just a matter of competing economic systems as the governments of communist countries believed it was their right to control the lives of their citizens. The angle you take suggests you are sympathetic to those ideas because you're always critical of the U.S.. It's a shame that most Eastern Europeans and citizens of the former Soviet Union see communism as a disastrously failed system but there are those on the far Left in this country that still toy with the idea, thinking they can get it right.

Communism as practiced has been a disaster, but we are heading that way now with attacks on the free press by the president. Believe what the press says or not, we won't be free with the president controlling the press either openly or covertly by trying to discredit it. He needs to quit supporting part of the press while denigrating the rest. He made a speech talking about how great he is, and how the USA is the greatest, and the world better listen to him.The speech could have been straight out of Russia circa 1960.

Socialism has also been practiced with poor results, but it doesn't mean that a form of democratic blend of socialism and democracy won't work. In fact, various levels of blends are successful. Even the US is a blend of socialism with public funding of programs supporting the public welfare. It is just a matter of degree. But in my opinion, we are starting to lean too far towards unfettered capitalism at the expense of some of what would benefit our society as a whole.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Communism as practiced has been a disaster, but we are heading that way now with attacks on the free press by the president. Believe what the press says or not, we won't be free with the president controlling the press either openly or covertly by trying to discredit it. He needs to quit supporting part of the press while denigrating the rest. He made a speech talking about how great he is, and how the USA is the greatest, and the world better listen to him.The speech could have been straight out of Russia circa 1960.

Socialism has also been practiced with poor results, but it doesn't mean that a form of democratic blend of socialism and democracy won't work. In fact, various levels of blends are successful. Even the US is a blend of socialism with public funding of programs supporting the public welfare. It is just a matter of degree. But in my opinion, we are starting to lean too far towards unfettered capitalism at the expense of some of what would benefit our society as a whole.
The press has attacked Trump relentlessly, yet his criticism of them is seen as an attack on the institution? Try other countries, including Russia, where journalists are often murdered. And not once in awhile, but often. As for socialism, if it works, fine. But too often it has failed due to overreach. Communism on the other hand is a failed system that hopefully will go extinct worldwide soon.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
The press has attacked Trump relentlessly, yet his criticism of them is seen as an attack on the institution? Try other countries, including Russia, where journalists are often murdered. And not once in awhile, but often. As for socialism, if it works, fine. But too often it has failed due to overreach. Communism on the other hand is a failed system that hopefully will go extinct worldwide soon.

Trump needs to grow a pair. If he had half a brain, he must have known that press would scrutinize his every move, like they have with every president. But no other president has actually attempted to make the public distrust the press like Trump has. Trump is dangerous. Trump won't murder journalists, but he is attempting to rile up his half crazed base to do it for him.
Just look at how little he cares for human life. He plans to move the Israeli embassy which he knew would cause protests and deaths for no actual benefit to ANYONE, just to keep a stupid promise to Sheldon Adelson. No other American had any real issue with the status quo, but Trump did it, literally knowing people would suffer. Trump's idea of how he wants America to look is looking a lot like Russia.
 

Fred's Myth

Nonhyphenated American
Trump needs to grow a pair. If he had half a brain, he must have known that press would scrutinize his every move, like they have with every president. But no other president has actually attempted to make the public distrust the press like Trump has. Trump is dangerous. Trump won't murder journalists, but he is attempting to rile up his half crazed base to do it for him.
Just look at how little he cares for human life. He plans to move the Israeli embassy which he knew would cause protests and deaths for no actual benefit to ANYONE, just to keep a stupid promise to Sheldon Adelson. No other American had any real issue with the status quo, but Trump did it, literally knowing people would suffer. Trump's idea of how he wants America to look is looking a lot like Russia.
The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 was passed into law by Congress on 10/23/95, requiring that the U.S. embassy be moved to Jerusalem no later than 5/31/99. Trump was the first President with enough balls to actually carry it out.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Trump needs to grow a pair. If he had half a brain, he must have known that press would scrutinize his every move, like they have with every president. But no other president has actually attempted to make the public distrust the press like Trump has. Trump is dangerous. Trump won't murder journalists, but he is attempting to rile up his half crazed base to do it for him.
Just look at how little he cares for human life. He plans to move the Israeli embassy which he knew would cause protests and deaths for no actual benefit to ANYONE, just to keep a stupid promise to Sheldon Adelson. No other American had any real issue with the status quo, but Trump did it, literally knowing people would suffer. Trump's idea of how he wants America to look is looking a lot like Russia.
He was, and is, getting scrutinized like no president in recent history, most of it nonsense. You're saying he has to take it lying down, that to be critical of the ridiculousness is threatening democracy. That's silly. Name one outlet that has been intimidated into backing down? A much greater threat to democracy is a press seeking to bring down a duly elected president for no other reason than they disagree with his policies. They are objectively dishonest in their support of one political party over another and it's their job to be objective.
 
Top