Coronavirus

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
I didn't say it was complete. I stated the origin of the the rule.

I thought you said it was absolute, maybe I misunderstood. I was just pointing out a flaw in the golden rule. It's actually a bigger mess than that, but I was trying to keep it simple.

There is no absence of moral absolutism. It is revealed in the Scriptures. The standard of morality.
Because you don't appeal to that standard, your position is that all morality is subjective.
Believe what you want, do what you want, because the whatever one decides to do is what makes it right.
Survival of the fittest.LOL

You misunderstand me. God would be the absolute moral authority. When I say an "absence of moral authority", I am talking about absent from any particular person's moral reasoning. That is to say people who don't believe in God have nothing approaching moral absolutism. The closest thing they can point to with any logic at all is the natural law of survival of the fittest. Any moral claim aside from that is a matter of opinion.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
yea that was exactly my point that profs from top schools shouldnt necessarily be trusted. or even the whole profession (in this case economics) shouldnt be trusted. greger is quite critical of the medical profession too.

Because someone thinks an entire profession shouldn't be trusted doen't mean that person is correct. I have problems with people trying to lump individuals into a group, and ascribe the sins of some of the individuals to the entire group. Intersectionality is a fundamentally flawed concept.

i dont say things to be purposefully misleading. i didnt really understand this part, maybe its my fault ;), but corporations are not people and if i recall money is not speech. public citizen basically recommends enforcement and transparency for lobbyists and politicians alike.

I got the purposefully misleading thing from a previous conversation where I pointed out your using words with other than the standard meaning. Your answer was "freedom of speech". One flaw with our system was the endowment of corporations the rights of personhood. And you are free to donate money to political causes, if the Canadian law is anything like the US law. As such, paying people to lobby your cause to lawmakers is considered protected speech.


democracy means we should all be in decision making positions and if it becomes too slow, then we elect representatives to carry out our wishes, not whos proposals we agree with. if its too complicated then we set up a way for other people to qualify to make those harder decisions like doctors and judges. chomsky says authoritarian structures bear the burden of proof that they are justified (they usually are not) and if not they should be dismantled.

You just described representative republics, which the US is, I'm glad you are coming around. The complication of "harder decisions" is who determines who is qualified to make those decisions. Who decides whether an authoritarian structure has sufficiently met the burden of self-justification? Who decidea the process of dismantling? Who decides, and how do they, what should replace the authoritarian structure? If it is up to popular vote, who decides in case of a tie? How is the vote conducted? All sorts of problems. A lot of what you describe is how the US was founded. Even they couldn't dismantle the monarchy, and they had to fight a protracted and bloody war just to break away.


increasingly we live in a market driven culture where everything and everyone is for sale and that comes at expense of the truth. quite often you can have commercialism or the truth. you can have both, but i think often they are exclusive. in the matrix the humans whole world was based on a lie, and this was so they could be completely exploited.

These are very broad claims, and I can see the allure of thinking this way, but the claims are too unspecific to really discuss.

o btw, i didnt really like the cartesian answer to how do you know everything isnt bull:censored2:, but i could be wrong. i forgot the other 2 guys, i think one guys name was russell. chomsky suggested they are posed as questions but not actually which i found interesting. i think they are both interesting and would like to hear more. i like talking to you because you raise some good points like the appeal to authority and money thing.

The cartesian answer, as you put it, does not address whether everything is BS or not. It is an answer to whether or not you exist at all and how you can know. Beyond that, I'm still waiting for your logical argument for why you are not the only mind that exists. Then we can start delving into what is and what is not BS, and how to know which is which.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Who determines what is moral? Moral absolutism requires an absolute moral authority. In the absence of an absolute moral authority, morality is a matter of opinion. The closest thing we have to an absolute morality in the absence of an authority is survival of the fittest. If we base moral decisions on that standard, then the virus is a force for good.
well chomsky argues morality is nature and we are born with it. if you were an :censored2: all the time, eventually it might catch up with you and that would be the end of you. plus sometimes you need help. we actually cant survive without help on birth we are totally dependent.

this is an interesting article although it doesnt answer the absolute morality thing. chris hedges in his long speeches says we are up against a system of death, basically equivalent to the matrix sequels where smith and the machines threaten everyone:


1602311155485.png


this quote points to there being truth


1602311951757.png

1602311910660.png


1602311892117.png


1602312459512.png



do you know what hte counter argument to survival of hte fittest is?
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
well chomsky argues morality is nature and we are born with it. if you were an :censored2: all the time, eventually it might catch up with you and that would be the end of you. plus sometimes you need help. we actually cant survive without help on birth we are totally dependent.

this is an interesting article although it doesnt answer the absolute morality thing. chris hedges in his long speeches says we are up against a system of death, basically equivalent to the matrix sequels where smith and the machines threaten everyone:


View attachment 312808

this quote points to there being truth


View attachment 312811
View attachment 312810

View attachment 312809

View attachment 312813


do you know what hte counter argument to survival of hte fittest is?

I can probably think of a few counter-arguments. I know the one I subscribe to. But I leave it to you to tell me. I made the claim that in the absence of a belief in a moral authority (God), survival of the fittest is the closest concept we have to a moral framework. Change my mind.
 
Well seeing as how they mention previous trials (you know before the agreement) And the agreement was in July. LMAO
Once again, Trump was hospitalized. Your study is for non-hospitalized. So you are wrong. It’s too funny the first sentence says, regeneron is used on non-hospitalized people. Again you’ve been proven wrong.
 
9 people from Trumps rally in Minnesota have tested positive for Covid19. One of the sufferers is in ICU. These right wing dopes shouldn’t be allowed medical treatment. They’re idiots.
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
This is the best part.

“ This trial is part of a clinical programme, which includes studies of REGN-COV2 to treat hospitalised patients and to prevent infection in people exposed to Covid-19 patients.”
Once again, Trump was hospitalized. Your study is for non-hospitalized. So you are wrong. It’s too funny the first sentence says, regeneron is used on non-hospitalized people. Again you’ve been proven wrong.

I know you have trouble reading so I just went ahead and quoted my own past. Taken directly from the link
@Mugarolla posted.
 
I know you have trouble reading so I just went ahead and quoted my own past. Taken directly from the link
@Mugarolla posted.
Again Trump wasn’t a non hospitalized recipient. Also your source has nothing about 2,000 people a day in the clinical trials. Trump took a COCKTAIL, they have no idea if regeneron is the “cure” or another drug. Regeneron isn’t even the drugs name, it’s the name of the pharmaceutical company.
 

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Any moral claim aside from that is a matter of opinion.
God is the standard for absolute moral authority.
If that is not appealed to, the opinion is subjective.
You don't get to have an opinion with an absolute.
What is "natural" to some, can be a violation of Natural Law.
Just because the fit one survives , wouldn't necessarily mean the choices he made were moral.
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
Again Trump wasn’t a non hospitalized recipient. Also your source has nothing about 2,000 people a day in the clinical trials. Trump took a COCKTAIL, they have no idea if regeneron is the “cure” or another drug. Regeneron isn’t even the drugs name, it’s the name of the pharmaceutical company.
none of this has anything to do with the fact that you were wrong
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
I can probably think of a few counter-arguments. I know the one I subscribe to. But I leave it to you to tell me. I made the claim that in the absence of a belief in a moral authority (God), survival of the fittest is the closest concept we have to a moral framework. Change my mind.
Ì think ur skepticism prevents u from doing moral acts bc i was also thinking how we talked about competence as well before. Didnt cigarette companies seek to sow seeds of doubt to keep ppl smoking? I will try and answer ur questions about absolute morality. i think ive begun to touch upon the idea of opinions and truth that they are both real.

i would argue mutual aid which is the counter argument is a more moral framework than survival of the fittest, but im not sure you can tie that to morality. i dont think surviving = fairness or morality because whats the context upon your survival. survival of hte fittest has only been propogated so much because its beneficial to the rich who control what we think.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
Once again, Trump was hospitalized. Your study is for non-hospitalized. So you are wrong. It’s too funny the first sentence says, regeneron is used on non-hospitalized people. Again you’ve been proven wrong.

Let me prove you wrong....Again

I'm actually getting bored proving you wrong. It's too easy.


This clinical progress follows a positive review from the Independent Data Monitoring Committee of REGN-COV2 Phase 1 safety results in an initial cohort of 30 hospitalized and non-hospitalized patients with COVID-19.





Also your source has nothing about 2,000 people a day in the clinical trials.

Let me prove you wrong...Again

The trial with 2000 patients is already underway. We just have not seen any data yet. It does not mean that Regeneron cannot enlist another patient into their trial, say, Trump? Or that Regeneron has not seen any data from this trial.

The Phase 3 prevention trial is being conducted at approximately 100 sites and is expected to enroll 2,000 patients in the U.S.; the trial will assess SARS-CoV-2 infection status. The two Phase 2/3 treatment trials in hospitalized (estimated enrollment =1,850) and non-hospitalized (estimated enrollment =1,050) patients are planned to be conducted at approximately 150 sites in the U.S., Brazil, Mexico and Chile, and will evaluate virologic and clinical endpoints, with preliminary data expected later this summer.





Trump took a COCKTAIL,

Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (NASDAQ: REGN) today announced the initiation of late-stage clinical trials evaluating REGN-COV2, Regeneron's investigational double antibody cocktail for the treatment and prevention of COVID-19.



Regeneron isn’t even the drugs name, it’s the name of the pharmaceutical company.

Let me help you out. The cocktail is called REGN-COV2.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Because someone thinks an entire profession shouldn't be trusted doen't mean that person is correct. I have problems with people trying to lump individuals into a group, and ascribe the sins of some of the individuals to the entire group. Intersectionality is a fundamentally flawed concept.



I got the purposefully misleading thing from a previous conversation where I pointed out your using words with other than the standard meaning. Your answer was "freedom of speech". One flaw with our system was the endowment of corporations the rights of personhood. And you are free to donate money to political causes, if the Canadian law is anything like the US law. As such, paying people to lobby your cause to lawmakers is considered protected speech.




You just described representative republics, which the US is, I'm glad you are coming around. The complication of "harder decisions" is who determines who is qualified to make those decisions. Who decides whether an authoritarian structure has sufficiently met the burden of self-justification? Who decidea the process of dismantling? Who decides, and how do they, what should replace the authoritarian structure? If it is up to popular vote, who decides in case of a tie? How is the vote conducted? All sorts of problems. A lot of what you describe is how the US was founded. Even they couldn't dismantle the monarchy, and they had to fight a protracted and bloody war just to break away.




These are very broad claims, and I can see the allure of thinking this way, but the claims are too unspecific to really discuss.



The cartesian answer, as you put it, does not address whether everything is BS or not. It is an answer to whether or not you exist at all and how you can know. Beyond that, I'm still waiting for your logical argument for why you are not the only mind that exists. Then we can start delving into what is and what is not BS, and how to know which is which.
i think racism, capitalism, imperialism, etc are all tied together so im assuming thats intersectionality i dont recall what the guys i listen to say about that word.

i agree with you that corporations are not people. obviously you want limits on political spending because otherwise you are going to be in the situation were currently in where a small portion of hte population controls politics. this is a brief summary of life before citizens united on public citizen's website: "

Before Jan. 21, 2010, there were some fairly basic, generally noncontroversial, rules for making political contributions or other expenditures to influence U.S. elections. Chiefly, the donor needed to be a person, and that person needed to be a citizen or permanent resident of the United States. These rules were only slightly different than the rules on voting eligibility.

Contributions of more than $200 to federal political committees were disclosed, and corporations and unions were prohibited from spending money from their treasuries for overt activities to influence elections.

There were abuses of the system. For years, political parties and outside groups evaded the prohibition on corporate and union money by using money from these sources to pay for sham issue ads that were actually intended to influence elections. Meanwhile, funding of elections was never representative of the electorate, as a whole.[1]

But, despite these shortcomings, the vast majority of the money flowing into the system was given by individuals, was disclosed and was subject to contribution limits."


im not sure they founded america as a represenative republic since only white people with property were allowed to vote, and they were against popular democracy and in favor of protecting private property from the masses. they set up a powerful central govt to squash rebellions with the constitution. you only got freedom to assemble i believe by people organizing to get it in the constitution. i think the founders replaced the british ruling class with an american one. i dont really want to get into this other stuff now because im trying to answer your 2 big questions about absolute morality and this:

i just dont like the idea that im the only mind that exists because it sounds egoistic and ridiculous. i like the idea that thinking means i exist but do people with no brains mean they dont exist? im talking about 100% brain damage. i dont whats the significance of talking about this but its kinda interesting.

if you have more questions about how authoritarian structures of domination and control justify themselves (i believe thats teh word chomsky used) you can read "on anarchism" or watch his videos about anarchism.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
Again if this drug is so terrific why isn’t Trump saving lives right now?

This is getting too easy proving how little you actually know.

Trump cannot prescribe medication to anyone. But he is doing something. He is trying to save lives. He is urging the FDA to speed up the process and approve REGN-COV2 and he says he will make it free and available to everyone. What else would you like him to do? Create an Executive Order making REGN-COV2 legal to prescribe?

This is up to the FDA, not Trump.

Trump took a drug that citizens can’t get! That’s selfish!

OK. You have been proven wrong and shown that you have no idea what you are talking about, so your comeback is that Trump is selfish? Pathetic.
 
Top