Old Man Jingles
Rat out of a cage
Lordy mercy! LOL
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zub got hung up on the word "example". even if that was the wrong word to use...whatever! he should get the just of what im saying. he spends more time beating around the bush than explaining himself.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
Ok, since you insist on making this conversation about something that it was not originally about, I will tell you, the Matrix is a savior allegory, Neo is a Christ figure. The idea that it is up to an individual to save all of humanity is not new, and it pops up, over and over. The wachowskis may have tried to co-opt the symbolism to push some sort of communist narrative, but the idea that the individual has primacy over the collective is strictly antithetical to communist dogma. You see, the AI represents the collective that all humans are plugged into under communist ideology. Neo set them free by striking a deal with the architect, which clumsily represents both God and Satan at the same time, to rid the Matrix of agent Smith, who represents death through the loss of identity.
The matrix is not an example of totalitarianism, it is a story about the salvation of mankind from collectivism.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
That's a laugh. I've been nothing but direct. You are the one going off on tangents.
neo wouldnt have been able to save them anyways if they didnt fight back so it was a combination of them being saved by someone powerful and them saving themselves. and again in the second movie they work together and only by working together do they succeed. its ridiculous to say its a movie about the salvation of mankind from collectivism especially considering hte writer / directors political leanings and some of the people they cast. collectivism vs individualism are definitely themes. no the matrix was what everyone thought was real IE it was a lie, so the machines could exploit them economically for their value. this is karl marx who said those who control the means of production control mental production, amongst other things. i view smith really as a monopolist who has exploited the earth to collapse which is what we are doing right now although he could be an example of the darkness within all of us. so to me the movie is saying were under control to make someone rich and most of what we believe may be a lie, these people are threatening us with environmental devastation, and if we rise up they threaten to kill us, and this is how you can fight back anyways.
from wiki. the trilogy checks off most of these if not all:
Totalitarianism - Wikipedia
wachowskis updated the myth that george lucas updated with star wars. joseph campbell mentioned the second part in an interview.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
neo wouldnt have been able to save them anyways if they didnt fight back so it was a combination of them being saved by someone powerful and them saving themselves. and again in the second movie they work together and only by working together do they succeed. its ridiculous to say its a movie about the salvation of mankind from collectivism especially considering hte writer / directors political leanings and some of the people they cast. collectivism vs individualism are definitely themes. no the matrix was what everyone thought was real IE it was a lie, so the machines could exploit them economically for their value. this is karl marx who said those who control the means of production control mental production, amongst other things. i view smith really as a monopolist who has exploited the earth to collapse which is what we are doing right now although he could be an example of the darkness within all of us. so to me the movie is saying were under control to make someone rich and most of what we believe may be a lie, these people are threatening us with environmental devastation, and if we rise up they threaten to kill us, and this is how you can fight back anyways.
from wiki. the trilogy checks off most of these if not all:
View attachment 322190
Totalitarianism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The writers might have intended one thing, but failed to effectively communicate their views by using symbolism that represents ideas that are the exact opposite of theirs.
And please stop with the totalitarianism thing. I get that the matrix in the movie is an example of a totalitarian system. That has nothing to do with my original point, which went way over your head, so, just please drop it.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
What's your point? How was any of that not direct?
u got hung up on me using hte world example. maybe ur right allegory is the right word...it doesnt matter. u should be able to read between the lines. and if my belief system is based on what i told you about hte matrix, whats wrong with that? the movie was a huge part in developing my skepticism, fashion, and sense of justice.
btw which symbols and ideas were those?
bc u beat around the point of why we shouldnt analyze art, or why matrix is not a good belief system or whatever.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
Those weren't the points I was discussing, why would I be direct about them?
well isnt that convienent for you..................................................................................................................
and the clock!
refineryworker05
Well-Known Member
Not connecting the matrix to society or anything but just as a discussion of the trilogy which greatly disappointed me after the first one which was excellent.
I didn’t get Jesus, or satan, or collectivism, or salvation. To me the matrix was about how individual choices don’t matter. How one can be presented as a fighter against the system and really be the one keeping the system going. Neo is presented as a hero as a savior, but all he really saved was the matrix. Neo, is both a human being and a software program created by the matrix that is inplanted in a human being. And the neo software program was created by the matrix to keep the matrix going. That’s the neo software’s ultimate goal, to fix the flawed matrix program from collapsing under the weight of the collective human psyches it’s trying to contain. I don’t even know if the “free human beings” who exist outside of the matrix actually exist outside of the matrix. They have no memory of the past, no documentation of all the previous neo’s that existed, no idea of how long the matrix has existed. Free human beings would mark the time, would write down their history, there would be some kind of record. I think neo and those free human beings are still in the matrix carrying out some collective psychic need of human beings to be free and fight the matrix. Ultimately the illusion of protecting the free human beings, forces the neo human/software program to sacrifice itself to fix the matrix and keep it going. And then it repeats itself.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
SMH
A bunch of dorks rambling nonsense about a scifi movie.
Seriously people, the mentally ill creators of the movie have explicitly stated it's all an allegory for transgenderism. You're having the gayest discussion on this site and you don't even realize it.
A bunch of dorks rambling nonsense about a scifi movie.
Seriously people, the mentally ill creators of the movie have explicitly stated it's all an allegory for transgenderism. You're having the gayest discussion on this site and you don't even realize it.
Unless transgenderism is linked to all these other ideas which it probably is. Racism is linked to capitalism for example.
U need to grow up and not use the term gay as an insult. Thats 2000
. Dont count on opneeds protecting the freedom of gays either.Agent smith spread like a virus and so has corona
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
You're Canadian.
Yea but they changed it for the better. Maybe its okay to look at computer screens as long as we know we should be experiencing things off computers too or to watch junk news as long as we know its junk. I view reloaded as meaning reform and neo did not reform the matrix he chose revolution. But yea ppl in power like neo can be coopted or have their own selfish desires. He needs his gf, he needs his life, but i guess the filmmakers point to really being free is letting go of all that stuff.
Homophobe
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