I have no problem with the Ukrainians defending themselves. I have a real problem with Tony Blinken saying the other day that Ukraine will be eventually joining NATO. There's no way that Russia can defeat NATO. The problem is that Putin might launch nukes when the inevitable defeat is close. It was a stupid thing to say outloud. Our administration doesn't seem interested in a negotiated peace. The only way that Ukraine should join NATO is if they concede Crimea and the two eastern Russian dominated provinces to Russia in exchange for NATO membership. If Ukraine is allowed in while still fighting Russia then the other NATO members are obligated to come to its defense. We'd better hope Putin isn't as insane as our media always portrays him.
dow jones
- Thread starter Jkloc420
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DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
If you can't do a simple Google search I'm not sure you can be helped. They were going to make a peace deal. Boris Johnson showed up and tanked it.
The West has used the Ukrainian people as fodder in a proxy war. It's sick and evil.
i think he tried for diplomacy which US blocked, but its been a while since i heard about it. Ukraine is going to lose some land.
The West has used the Ukrainian people as fodder in a proxy war. It's sick and evil.
worth repeating
Next Day Err
Well-Known Member
And what did Biden have to do with it?
Next Day Err
Well-Known Member
They’re not helpless idiots. They had a taste of free markets and wanted to get closer to the West and Putin couldn’t tolerate that. Why do most people on this board always seem to question American motives? Our policy is peace in Europe and democracy and free markets. It’s in our national interest. We can’t control what a tyrant like Putin does to his neighbor but we should help them defend themselves.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Biden's administration.
Biden has dementia.
Next Day Err
Well-Known Member
joining NATO is a red line for russia just like the cuban missile crisis was for america. if its bad for you, then its bad for them too.
there was a guy from the bush admin he worked under colin powell and he comments on this stuff.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
I think people who are informed about the facts have a hard time believing the Biden administration could possibly be this stupid.
They were warned that lifting sanctions on Russia would result in Putin invading, and they did it anyway.
It's so stupid it almost seems like they did it on purpose.
There were no invasions during Trump's term. The Russians could have worked with China to invade Taiwan and Ukraine at the same time but didn't. They knew Trump would've attacked both of them. Biden has no spine. Putin knows it. Everybody knows it. No matter how you spin it Putin was willing to attack countries during Obama's and Biden's terms but not Trump's.
Next Day Err
Well-Known Member
What scenario would have us attacking both China and Russia and it not escalate into a nightmare? You guys are delusional
It's not the same as the Cuban missile crisis. NATO countries are already right up against Russia. Putin wanted to take over Ukraine, period. There needs to be a negotiated settlement where some Ukrainian territory that's dominated by ethnic Russians be conceded in exchange for NATO membership. And some efforts made to bring Russia's economy back. Putin won't live forever but if honest efforts are made to improve Russian lives the day may come where Russia is just another European country trading with everyone. But that'll never happen in a hostile environment.
PT Car Washer
Well-Known Member
You are being too kind in your assessment.
Next Day Err
Well-Known Member
Climate is the biggest problem we face longterm. Biden was trying to turn a massive tanker and get us oriented quicker towards a greener energy future. I understand you’re a Christian fundamentalist who doesn’t buy the premise of anthropogenic climate change but that doesn’t change the facts. If you want to think this domestic decision pushed Putin over the edge to decide to invade then of course you can do so, but I just do not buy it. It doesn’t make sense except if you’re a highly partisan. Look at what we’ve done since the invasion: we drill more energy now than ever before. We pivoted pretty damn fast. Putin couldn’t possibly believe we would be rudderless just because we tried to smooth things over with Germany and the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. Hell, Germany even pivoted away from Russian energy. Turns out to be a pretty low cost decision in the grand scheme.
Biden warned Putin not to invade. He did anyway. Putin was pushed back. Now our ally is running out of ammo and rationing it. Our stupid GOP is standing in the way of arming them. Now our ally is being pushed back. All because TRUMP is an ALLY of RUSSIA.
Next Day Err
Well-Known Member
Probably want I don’t want to be banned
We wouldn't be attacking them per se. We would be defending Ukraine and Taiwan. Russia and China would not risk getting their militaries obliterated. That would make their governments at risk internally. But this piecemeal giving Ukraine equipment until they run out then give them more is just getting a lot of people killed while making our defense industry richer. With Congressmen getting campaign contributions. And it looks like our government wants that to go as long as possible, just like Afghanistan. Trump negotiated a withdrawal in Afghanistan and he will likely do the same in Ukraine. The forever war people hate that and are desperately trying to keep him out of office. And you Democratic Party members go along with it as if it's perfectly normal because that's what your party wants. Forever wars with fat profits. With plenty of Republicans onboard too.
yea and they werent supposed to be.
its the same. if mexico was part of WARSAW america would attack it.
and yet thats whats almost happening right now.
Germany is seriously hurting since the pipeline was destroyed. And we aren't drilling more than ever. We're pumping more than ever from previously capped wells. And you live in a fantasy world created by none other than Hillary Clinton about Trump being a Russian ally.
