drivers don't get help with over 70s anymore?

[scoobypanda]

It's not unprofessional to ask a customer for help when the only other option is to not make service on the package because management won't, or "can't", arrange for someone to come help me carry it. In most cases the customer would rather help us and get their package on time (which is what they paid for) than have to wait another day (or more) for UPS to arrange for the package to be delivered safely. It looks bad on us when a customer pays for service and we don't provide it. If I know I can't get help from another UPSer I will ask the customer. If they say no (never happened) then, and only then, will I bring the package back to the center.

When I have a professional plumber, electrician or mechanic working on my house or car, they never ask for my help. Asking for their help is not the safe or professional way to deliver their merchandise. That's just something U.P.S came up with when the idea of more than doubling the weight limit wasn't greeted with open arms by their workforce. Look around your building, I guarantee you can find a sign or poster saying "safety first". You will not find a poster saying "no other other or missed".

 

[helenofcalifornia]

I agree that if at all possible don't ask the customer for help. But I disagree with your premise that if an electrician or plumber comes over they would never ask us for help so why should we ask our customers for a hand? I don't think the public thinks of us in the same way as they do electricians and plumbers. Most people like us and want to help. They ALWAYS want to sign the DIAD. I'm just saying if they don't mind and they look like they can handle, I don't mind asking for a helping hand. Otherwise, I am waiting on another driver to help and I hate waiting.

 

[drewed]

Personally, if i knew i had something heavy that was being delivered, id be embarrassed if i didnt go out and help..... it should be go out and help youre fellow citizen in whatever theyre are doing. not watch a person struggle with something i asked them to do

 

[HEFFERNAN]

Honestly Guys (and Ladies)

We are all grown ups here .

If you are at a residential address, just back up to their garage and drop the package there. Why would you even consider sheeting it missed or deal with the contract over-70 help. Just get it to Point B and drive away.

Commercial stops should and most likely will help you with THEIR packages.

Don't ever climb stairs with the over-70's and don't worry how the customer is going to move the package after you leave. Its not your problem anymore as long as its off your truck.

 

[dilligaf]

Honestly Guys (and Ladies)

We are all grown ups here .

If you are at a residential address, just back up to their garage and drop the package there. Why would you even consider sheeting it missed or deal with the contract over-70 help. Just get it to Point B and drive away.

Commercial stops should and most likely will help you with THEIR packages.

Don't ever climb stairs with the over-70's and don't worry how the customer is going to move the package after you leave. Its not your problem anymore as long as its off your truck.

Heff is right.

I had a commercial P/U one day,2 pkgs both over 70's. They had told me about it earlier in the day and I called in for help as soon as I found out. The people at the business were older ladies and they didn't have anyone else there to help. The business was upstairs with no elevator. To make a long story short I ended up waiting at P/U time 15/20 for someone to come and help. I didn't want to attempt this one on my own. High val's. Very frustrating and the driver that came and helped was not very nice about it.

I deal with my own over 70's. At a res I drop them at the garage. What the customer does after that is their problem. At businesses I have no qualms about asking the guys to come out and help. Almost always it is not a problem. On a rare occasion I will get a business that isn't 'johnny on the spot' with helping. Those customers get there pkg in the door only as far as I absolutely have to go. (If they look like they are dragging their feet getting there).

There was only one time that I made someone come out from the center. I was on a rural rte and my preloader had loaded 60+ lbs (2) on the top shelp. They were both flat, long pkgs and I couldn't get a good hold of them. The safety guy (also the driver of the rte I was on) wanted me to have the customer get in the back of the truck and help. I refused. He had to come out and help me. The preloader never did that again.

 

[Bubblehead]

yes- my center pays me full wage all day for all of the days that this has happened. that is including my preload hours.

my primary classification as stated above is part-time preload. last summer i completed my 30 day driver progression for "temporary cover driver." this entitles me to drive for my center to cover holidays/sick days/vacations on an as needed basis. i do not gain or accrue full-time seniority, but i get some great experience for when i do go full time and i will not have to go through another 30 day progression.

Are you sure you work for UPS? I've not heard of a classification of "temporary cover driver". There are seasonal drivers in the central region were I work. Seasonals can be chosen from the part time ranks by seniority but cannot bounce back and forth from full time to part time whenever management deems it necessary. Most are hired off street and are gone after Labor Day. These are the drivers used to cover vacations. Is this a prevision in your supplement? Can somebody tell me what I'm missing here? I find it hard to believe that the union has given UPS this kind of flexibility in any region. It is in sharp contrast to any language in the National Master. If this was available in my building they would never hire another full time driver. The onus is on management to maintain an adequate work force and deputizing part timers is a blatant contractual violation in my local. It sounds to me that you are qualified to be an exception are driver. Maybe a 22/3, or you should be. I do realize that there will be positions similar to this to cover option days starting next year due to the new contract. This new language does not give these new cover drivers the ability to do anything but cover optional holidays. Not overflow bulk, misloads, shags(what is that anyway? misloads?), etc., although I'm sure management will abuse these new provisions. Secondly do you mean 30 day "qualifying" period instead to "progression"? The term progression is measured in months and years to my knowledge and refers to wages.

I believe if I was the steward in your building I could double my take home pay.

 

[Forty6and2]

Are you sure you work for UPS? I've not heard of a classification of "temporary cover driver". There are seasonal drivers in the central region were I work. Seasonals can be chosen from the part time ranks by seniority but cannot bounce back and forth from full time to part time whenever management deems it necessary. Most are hired off street and are gone after Labor Day. These are the drivers used to cover vacations. Is this a prevision in your supplement? Can somebody tell me what I'm missing here? I find it hard to believe that the union has given UPS this kind of flexibility in any region. It is in sharp contrast to any language in the National Master. If this was available in my building they would never hire another full time driver. The onus is on management to maintain an adequate work force and deputizing part timers is a blatant contractual violation in my local. It sounds to me that you are qualified to be an exception are driver. Maybe a 22/3, or you should be. I do realize that there will be positions similar to this to cover option days starting next year due to the new contract. This new language does not give these new cover drivers the ability to do anything but cover optional holidays. Not overflow bulk, misloads, shags(what is that anyway? misloads?), etc., although I'm sure management will abuse these new provisions. Secondly do you mean 30 day "qualifying" period instead to "progression"? The term progression is measured in months and years to my knowledge and refers to wages.

I believe if I was the steward in your building I could double my take home pay.

yes, you are right. i meant to say "qualifying." obviously my supplement is different from yours thats all i can say about it.

 

[Bubblehead]

Would you rather a sup do it?

The problem is bad planning. It will be happening here soon. The vacations with be starting and they will have just enough cover drivers to cover for the drivers on vacation. If someone calls in though, there will be no one to cover for that driver. Last summer there was one Friday where 13 drivers in the whole building called in(How do you even plan for that). There were also a lot of drivers on vacation at the time. Almost all the air drivers and a few sups took a car out. It was a mess.

You can't grieve it if there is no one there to grieve it. If there are no full timers there to cover a route, then you can't grieve it if a part timer takes the work. On the other hand, if none of the part timers were asked and a sup takes the route out, then it can be grieved.

There should always be some extra cover drivers available but it doesn't always happen. I'd rather see a part timer do the work than a supervisor.

Why do people keep saying that? Of course I don't want a supervisor doing our work. That is grievable at double time and I will grieve it everytime they violate. An exception might be that day you referred to with 13 call ins. I expect the labor department could and would put on a good case at the panel or arbitration hearing. I'm not talking about the extreme instances. The contractual language calls it on an "exception" basis. I contend that the "exception" has become the rule. Reread this guys posts. He is their bench player and that is crap. How many others do this in this building. How many full time jobs are being eluded nationwide? If UPS wants and needs this kind of flexibility then they should be forced to negotiate for it. They had an opportunity do this several months ago. They didn't because they don't have to. We don't enforce the language we have. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

In reference to the "whens" you can file grievance, I don't follow you. Plain and simple when the contract has been violated a grievance can and should be filed. It is up to management to maintain an adequate work force and if a couple of call ins topple the house of cards then grieve it. When they pay twice for the same work a couple of times watch the drivers come out of the wood work.

Change is dictated by the bottom line. Make them pay!

 

[Forty6and2]

Why do people keep saying that? Of course I don't want a supervisor doing our work. That is grievable at double time and I will grieve it everytime they violate. An exception might be that day you referred to with 13 call ins. I expect the labor department could and would put on a good case at the panel or arbitration hearing. I'm not talking about the extreme instances. The contractual language calls it on an "exception" basis. I contend that the "exception" has become the rule. Reread this guys posts. He is their bench player and that is crap. How many others do this in this building. How many full time jobs are being eluded nationwide? If UPS wants and needs this kind of flexibility then they should be forced to negotiate for it. They had an opportunity do this several months ago. They didn't because they don't have to. We don't enforce the language we have. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

In reference to the "whens" you can file grievance, I don't follow you. Plain and simple when the contract has been violated a grievance can and should be filed. It is up to management to maintain an adequate work force and if a couple of call ins topple the house of cards then grieve it. When they pay twice for the same work a couple of times watch the drivers come out of the wood work.

Change is dictated by the bottom line. Make them pay!

slow down.
it says in my supplement "cover drivers shall not be used to circumvent the terms of this agreement nor to avoid hiring full-time package car drivers in a center. cover drivers may be used as temporary replacements only and not to supplement the work force. if a cover driver continually works less than the cover driver guarantee, or is used for any reason other than as a replacement for full-time package car drivers for the reasons listed in paragraph four (excluding october, november, and december) and a total of 30 days are worked out of a 90 day period, the Company shall add a permanent regular full-time package car job. cover drivers working in excess of one year, either singularly or in combination, covering for a specific person out for either compensation or disability, will in itself create another full-time opening in that classification.

the company had to jump through hoops with the union for the union to let them add this position. even though they can still use cover when needed, the ratio of full-time to cover positions has to be a certain ratio.

its not like they just said "hey lets hire a few cover drivers so we won't have to open up new package car positions."

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I agree that if at all possible don't ask the customer for help. But I disagree with your premise that if an electrician or plumber comes over they would never ask us for help so why should we ask our customers for a hand? I don't think the public thinks of us in the same way as they do electricians and plumbers. Most people like us and want to help. They ALWAYS want to sign the DIAD. I'm just saying if they don't mind and they look like they can handle, I don't mind asking for a helping hand. Otherwise, I am waiting on another driver to help and I hate waiting.

Agreed. It was a terrible comparison. A customer helped me carry a 150lb. package today that was a call tag. I didn't ask. They offered. I had another customer at a metal forge help me carry an extremely long 90 pound pole hung of metal. I didn't ask nor did they offer. They just jumped right in there and helped. Should I have refuse help in the name of "professionalism?" Hell no. LOL! I think it is more unprofessional to delay the package getting delivered by not getting help. Or even worse if the package is not delivered at all. Bringing the package back to the center is the last option for me. And that is only if I think it will be to risky (dangerous) to move the package alone.

 

[Bubblehead]

slow down.
it says in my supplement "cover drivers shall not be used to circumvent the terms of this agreement nor to avoid hiring full-time package car drivers in a center. cover drivers may be used as temporary replacements only and not to supplement the work force. if a cover driver continually works less than the cover driver guarantee, or is used for any reason other than as a replacement for full-time package car drivers for the reasons listed in paragraph four (excluding october, november, and december) and a total of 30 days are worked out of a 90 day period, the Company shall add a permanent regular full-time package car job. cover drivers working in excess of one year, either singularly or in combination, covering for a specific person out for either compensation or disability, will in itself create another full-time opening in that classification.

the company had to jump through hoops with the union for the union to let them add this position. even though they can still use cover when needed, the ratio of full-time to cover positions has to be a certain ratio.

its not like they just said "hey lets hire a few cover drivers so we won't have to open up new package car positions."

In what region does this language exist? I'm not trying to call you out as a thief or inferring that you are doing anything wrong (not anymore anyway). This is just completely foreign to anything we have here in the Central Region. I do stand by my earlier inference that, as a group, us UPS teamsters do a terrible job enforcing the contract and need to do better. It would seem this instance may not be a good example though. Look forward to reading your supplement. Sounds like an interesting bathroom read.

 

[Forty6and2]

In what region does this language exist? I'm not trying to call you out as a thief or inferring that you are doing anything wrong (not anymore anyway). This is just completely foreign to anything we have here in the Central Region. I do stand by my earlier inference that, as a group, us UPS teamsters do a terrible job enforcing the contract and need to do better. It would seem this instance may not be a good example though. Look forward to reading your supplement. Sounds like an interesting bathroom read.

if you look at where it has my profile avatar, i'm sure you will find quite easily that i am located in arizona. i am in the western region. the particular part that i quoted to you was out of my Southwest Package Rider Tentative Agreement.
I am not a thief. I am absolutely not lying about my status and/or classification at UPS. I put in my time just like everyone else did. I am looking forward to becoming a full-time service provider as soon as possible. i view my status as temporary cover driver as one of the stepping stones to getting to where i want to be.
no-one else in my building has a problem with this position at all. many people with more seniority tried out and failed. i was one of the lucky ones who passed the test. there is currently one cover driver above me in seniority and four more below me in seniority. as previously stated, ups had to jump through hoops to be allowed to start hiring for this position. our number one b.a. was called in to have meeting after meeting with our center managers where the c.m. showed the b.a. that the ratios to full-time drivers to cover drivers would remain at a certain percentage.

 

[dilligaf]

In what region does this language exist? I'm not trying to call you out as a thief or inferring that you are doing anything wrong (not anymore anyway). This is just completely foreign to anything we have here in the Central Region. I do stand by my earlier inference that, as a group, us UPS teamsters do a terrible job enforcing the contract and need to do better. It would seem this instance may not be a good example though. Look forward to reading your supplement. Sounds like an interesting bathroom read.

BH, 46+2 is correct, and it's not just tentative language for the new contract. IT IS the actual language from the last contract. I filed many, many grievances on this language.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

if you look at where it has my profile avatar, i'm sure you will find quite easily that i am located in arizona. i am in the western region. the particular part that i quoted to you was out of my Southwest Package Rider Tentative Agreement.
I am not a thief. I am absolutely not lying about my status and/or classification at UPS. I put in my time just like everyone else did. I am looking forward to becoming a full-time service provider as soon as possible. i view my status as temporary cover driver as one of the stepping stones to getting to where i want to be.
no-one else in my building has a problem with this position at all. many people with more seniority tried out and failed. i was one of the lucky ones who passed the test. there is currently one cover driver above me in seniority and four more below me in seniority. as previously stated, ups had to jump through hoops to be allowed to start hiring for this position. our number one b.a. was called in to have meeting after meeting with our center managers where the c.m. showed the b.a. that the ratios to full-time drivers to cover drivers would remain at a certain percentage.

I was hired as a result of this language except that I'm in the Southern Supplement. Our sups didn't bother waiting for grievances to be filed though. Several of us TCDs had worked so much last year (enough to even qualify for full-time vacations) and they was more than enough evidence showing that our center needed to add more full-timers.

 

[Bubblehead]

I was hired as a result of this language except that I'm in the Southern Supplement. Our sups didn't bother waiting for grievances to be filed though. Several of us TCDs had worked so much last year (enough to even qualify for full-time vacations) and they was more than enough evidence showing that our center needed to add more full-timers.

Give them an inch and they take an interstate as usual. Guess I'm glad I've not heard of this. Thanks to all for the info. Appreciate the patients with my ignorance. New to the site. I see now that the avatar and heading is a clue to some of my questions.