L
local804
Guest
True Dammor,
Its rare, very rare something sane comes out of potty mouths mouth.
Its rare, very rare something sane comes out of potty mouths mouth.
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tieguy
Guest
"My Manager said the results wouldnt be available until December. I dont buy it. "
Dude your results were available last monday. Call your Employee Relations manager in Hr for the score if the manager won't give it to you.
Dude your results were available last monday. Call your Employee Relations manager in Hr for the score if the manager won't give it to you.
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tieguy
Guest
Tie, sometimes you sound very sane. Other times you come across as as a total idiot. The second sceniaro would be the case here. Most of us at UPS have a good attitude, but we have to fight to keep it. Don't even try and tell me you have a true feel of what is going on in the street. You are working with numbers, we are working with people."
I deal with people everyday dammor I have the big picture you have the little hole you hide in.
Your buddies may laugh when you call management number crunching idiots but when they talk to me on the side they tell me they know they have it dang good. If your one of the whiners some will even tell me they wish I'd get rid of you and make thier jobs easier.
I deal with people everyday dammor I have the big picture you have the little hole you hide in.
Your buddies may laugh when you call management number crunching idiots but when they talk to me on the side they tell me they know they have it dang good. If your one of the whiners some will even tell me they wish I'd get rid of you and make thier jobs easier.
I
interested
Guest
Tie,
I just don't understand your mentality. It seems that you take is so personal whenever someone engages in discussion contrary to your views. The spirit of this message board is to exchange ideas, voice opinion and engage in civil discourse. At times civil discourse can be strong and acerbic-but why do you feel it necessary to berate people and demean them?
I realize that this forum is not sanctioned by Ups, and while we all know that many Ups managers read and participate on this board, it does provide a necessary outlet for ALL employees to speak their mind. When you consistently treat people on this board in an aggressive and disrespectful manner, most of whom are Ups employees, you reinforce exactly some of the issues of disrespect and poor morale that seem so prominent in many of subjects we post on. The fact that you are a member of the management team engaging in that type of behavior is even worse.
There are many more productive ways to get your point across other than profanity and vitriol.
You seem to take especially strong umbrage with anyone who has ANYTHING negative to say about Ups. I understand that you have strong feelings about the company, but I would respectfully argue that looking at the world through rose covered glasses does not a good manager make.
I think it is important to stress that employees who are not happy with their current situation can and SHOULD take action to try and change things. Change is ALAWAYS accompanied by negativity and confrontation but it doesn't have to include disrespect. It does not mean they are bad employees who don't work hard nor have pride in Ups.
In fact, the argument can be made that because of their pride in themselves and the organization that they have the temerity to take a stand. This is especially true in management. I have said before you cannot pick and choose where you want to participate in the partnership. If something is wrong, unfair, illegal, immoral you have a responsibility to step up and confront. It is easy to stand back and align oneself with the status quo. "Avoid the negativity" don't rock the boat. That is the most common form of management at Ups. smile* runs down hill, you are getting pressure-so you pressure, you tell someone to do it; they should do it, "just because you said to do it" It's easy to fall into that style of management because that is the way we were managed, that is the way that ALL generations of employees have been managed.
Well it's time to break that cycle. It's time empower each other and truly hold the company accountable for their actions. It is especially important for you and I Tie, as management, to strengthen the partnership by participating in the most difficult of challenges, forcing change.
I think the first step is to treat each other with respect and dignity-whether it is in the sort or on a message board.
Remember Tie-It is a very poor classroom indeed that does not have a group of students who actively and openly question absolutely everything the teacher does.
I just don't understand your mentality. It seems that you take is so personal whenever someone engages in discussion contrary to your views. The spirit of this message board is to exchange ideas, voice opinion and engage in civil discourse. At times civil discourse can be strong and acerbic-but why do you feel it necessary to berate people and demean them?
I realize that this forum is not sanctioned by Ups, and while we all know that many Ups managers read and participate on this board, it does provide a necessary outlet for ALL employees to speak their mind. When you consistently treat people on this board in an aggressive and disrespectful manner, most of whom are Ups employees, you reinforce exactly some of the issues of disrespect and poor morale that seem so prominent in many of subjects we post on. The fact that you are a member of the management team engaging in that type of behavior is even worse.
There are many more productive ways to get your point across other than profanity and vitriol.
You seem to take especially strong umbrage with anyone who has ANYTHING negative to say about Ups. I understand that you have strong feelings about the company, but I would respectfully argue that looking at the world through rose covered glasses does not a good manager make.
I think it is important to stress that employees who are not happy with their current situation can and SHOULD take action to try and change things. Change is ALAWAYS accompanied by negativity and confrontation but it doesn't have to include disrespect. It does not mean they are bad employees who don't work hard nor have pride in Ups.
In fact, the argument can be made that because of their pride in themselves and the organization that they have the temerity to take a stand. This is especially true in management. I have said before you cannot pick and choose where you want to participate in the partnership. If something is wrong, unfair, illegal, immoral you have a responsibility to step up and confront. It is easy to stand back and align oneself with the status quo. "Avoid the negativity" don't rock the boat. That is the most common form of management at Ups. smile* runs down hill, you are getting pressure-so you pressure, you tell someone to do it; they should do it, "just because you said to do it" It's easy to fall into that style of management because that is the way we were managed, that is the way that ALL generations of employees have been managed.
Well it's time to break that cycle. It's time empower each other and truly hold the company accountable for their actions. It is especially important for you and I Tie, as management, to strengthen the partnership by participating in the most difficult of challenges, forcing change.
I think the first step is to treat each other with respect and dignity-whether it is in the sort or on a message board.
Remember Tie-It is a very poor classroom indeed that does not have a group of students who actively and openly question absolutely everything the teacher does.
U
upsdude
Guest
Dude your results were available last monday. Call your Employee Relations manager in Hr for the score if the manager won't give it to you.
Tie...
Thanks, I'll try again in the morning.
Tie...
Thanks, I'll try again in the morning.
K
kidlogic
Guest
Intrested brings out what Tie has never taking one second to think about. The fact that everytime a managment person chooses to manage from the position of ego instead of positive motivation UPS takes a hit. Some employees will do less then they could,some wont care about quality and when it comes contract time they want all the golden eggs from the company. When I look and see that I am on pace as a packagecar driver to make 68k. I have guys like Tie to thank for a wage that is a few dollars more then it should be to put up with the ego.. It's managers like him who fire up the Union to suck the life out of UPS.
I have talked to people like intrested. They resent guys like Tie because they dont manage people. The guy who can keep 75% of his employees at Mcdonlds for 6 months is a true manager. It takes people skills to do that. A guy who is all ego will never get 100%. Intrested knows that to push UPS into the future it will take all of us working together as a unit to keep UPS on top. Like I have often thought if we could rid this company of the 10% of bad mangers and bad employees we would all be alot happier. But if UPS wants to keep guys like Tie around it will go on like this forever.
I have talked to people like intrested. They resent guys like Tie because they dont manage people. The guy who can keep 75% of his employees at Mcdonlds for 6 months is a true manager. It takes people skills to do that. A guy who is all ego will never get 100%. Intrested knows that to push UPS into the future it will take all of us working together as a unit to keep UPS on top. Like I have often thought if we could rid this company of the 10% of bad mangers and bad employees we would all be alot happier. But if UPS wants to keep guys like Tie around it will go on like this forever.
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ezrider
Guest
There have been a select few in the building I work in that are as skeptical of the ERI as some of these posts that I read on this board.I took it and although sometimes the questions could at times could be construed as vague,there was a screen at the end where additional comments could be typed in by the participant.Do the naysayers of this survey really believe the company would go to the expense and hastle to set up the ERI if the company wasn't interested in employee feedback?Sure it's not perfect,but if management were to try and tailor the workplace to match every single employee's different vision of how the company should be run,then there wouldn't be a company left after too long.The survey exists because it's the most efficient tool the company has to gather what the BROAD consensus is.This company is much bigger than the individual worlds that represent our immediate workplaces,and an operation that vast in scale will never be perfect.But employees trashing the ERI or flat out not even bothereing to take it are no different than disgruntled citizens that never took the initiative to vote in the last election complaining about the performance of elected officials.If one won't even participate,than one shouldn't argue the results.
I
interested
Guest
Ezrider you bring up some good points. I agree if you are not going to take the ERI or take it seriously, you have nothing to say about its results.
On the point of going to the cost and trouble to set up the ERI, I am still on the fence. I would feel a whole lot better about the situation if it were an independent outside agency administering it.
There are just too many other everyday indications of the company's morale that do not paralell an 80% on an employee survey. While I agree that the survey has become better, I am still skeptical. I am still unsure if the results are somewhat misleading to keep morale from receding further, rather than a true indication of the health of our company.
As far as tailoring the results to fit each individuals work area. Yes, we are just too big to have the results have that kind of finite impact on a defined area. Having said that, it should be the ultamite goal, however unrealistic, to strive to have the ERI accomplish just that very thing-impact each individual work area. Otherwise the ERI has no real intrinsic value to the company.
As to your other point about not trashing the ERI, I am unsure what you mean. If you think it is unproductive to blow it off or just whip through it and not give it its due, I agree.
If you think it's wrong to openly and aggressively question our management team about the ERI, its results, action plans and most importantly, the process Ups uses to apply the results to our specific work areas-I think you are mistaken. That is exactly what we should do to ensure that the ERI does what it is supposed to do and measure how its employees feel about their professional environment and USE that feedback, even if its negative, to impact positive change.
Change is the law of life. And those who only look to the past or present are certain to miss the future-JFK
On the point of going to the cost and trouble to set up the ERI, I am still on the fence. I would feel a whole lot better about the situation if it were an independent outside agency administering it.
There are just too many other everyday indications of the company's morale that do not paralell an 80% on an employee survey. While I agree that the survey has become better, I am still skeptical. I am still unsure if the results are somewhat misleading to keep morale from receding further, rather than a true indication of the health of our company.
As far as tailoring the results to fit each individuals work area. Yes, we are just too big to have the results have that kind of finite impact on a defined area. Having said that, it should be the ultamite goal, however unrealistic, to strive to have the ERI accomplish just that very thing-impact each individual work area. Otherwise the ERI has no real intrinsic value to the company.
As to your other point about not trashing the ERI, I am unsure what you mean. If you think it is unproductive to blow it off or just whip through it and not give it its due, I agree.
If you think it's wrong to openly and aggressively question our management team about the ERI, its results, action plans and most importantly, the process Ups uses to apply the results to our specific work areas-I think you are mistaken. That is exactly what we should do to ensure that the ERI does what it is supposed to do and measure how its employees feel about their professional environment and USE that feedback, even if its negative, to impact positive change.
Change is the law of life. And those who only look to the past or present are certain to miss the future-JFK
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dammor
Guest
ezrider,
I agree about the ERI. I took it and most of my answers were favorable. My understanding is that it is about the management in my location. That made it pretty simply for me. We work with good people here. Had they ask a question about tieguy my response would have been the opposite.
Interested,
You are a breath of fresh air on this board. I have worked at UPS for 23 years and 7 months. I care about the company and always have. I can't count the sup's and managers that have come and gone in those years, but I could name the ones that have impressed me so much that I was very willing to do anything asked of me. The center manager here is one that will be on my all time best list. I will do a good job either way, but it is such a treat to respect and feel respected by those that are on the same mission. Some will think that sounds stupid, but those of us that care will understand. You have many battles ahead of you Interested. I wish you luck and guts. You will need both if you are willing to try to make a difference. You already have my respect.
I agree about the ERI. I took it and most of my answers were favorable. My understanding is that it is about the management in my location. That made it pretty simply for me. We work with good people here. Had they ask a question about tieguy my response would have been the opposite.
Interested,
You are a breath of fresh air on this board. I have worked at UPS for 23 years and 7 months. I care about the company and always have. I can't count the sup's and managers that have come and gone in those years, but I could name the ones that have impressed me so much that I was very willing to do anything asked of me. The center manager here is one that will be on my all time best list. I will do a good job either way, but it is such a treat to respect and feel respected by those that are on the same mission. Some will think that sounds stupid, but those of us that care will understand. You have many battles ahead of you Interested. I wish you luck and guts. You will need both if you are willing to try to make a difference. You already have my respect.
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tieguy
Guest
"just don't understand your mentality. It seems that you take is so personal whenever someone engages in discussion contrary to your views. The spirit of this message board is to exchange ideas, voice opinion and engage in civil discourse. At times civil discourse can be strong and acerbic-but why do you feel it necessary to berate people and demean them?"
Interested I don't understand your point. Your expecting me to respond in a civil fashion to someone that says I sound like an idiot. Perhaps I'm missing something here interested but I don't believe being called an idiot is civil discourse. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Interested I don't understand your point. Your expecting me to respond in a civil fashion to someone that says I sound like an idiot. Perhaps I'm missing something here interested but I don't believe being called an idiot is civil discourse. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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tieguy
Guest
"Intrested brings out what Tie has never taking one second to think about. The fact that everytime a managment person chooses to manage from the position of ego instead of positive motivation UPS takes a hit."
Interesting point Kid. Now let me ask you a question and lets see if you actually decide to answer it this time. Ready? Have you ever done anything that made you feel good or done anything with the intent of doing a good job and deriving a good feeling for doing a good job. If that has ever been your motivation then guess what you just let your ego motivate you.
Interesting point Kid. Now let me ask you a question and lets see if you actually decide to answer it this time. Ready? Have you ever done anything that made you feel good or done anything with the intent of doing a good job and deriving a good feeling for doing a good job. If that has ever been your motivation then guess what you just let your ego motivate you.
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proups
Guest
ezrider and interested: I agree with both of you except the trust in the ERI.
I don't really see how it could be manipulated in it's present format. I don't know many management people who would be stupid enough to manipulate the information. They would lose their jobs.
It is what it is. As you both say, let's now move forward and do something about the questions that scored low....together!
I don't really see how it could be manipulated in it's present format. I don't know many management people who would be stupid enough to manipulate the information. They would lose their jobs.
It is what it is. As you both say, let's now move forward and do something about the questions that scored low....together!
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dammor
Guest
"I don't know many management people who would be stupid enough to manipulate the information. They would lose their jobs."
proups, We had a manager here who did just that, and yes, he lost his job. It seems we have people in management and in hourly who are stupid enough to do most anything. I believe most in both positions make and effort to do the right thing though. As usual we hear more of the bad than the good. I guess the good is just too boring to keep our attention. My Hell, I'm beginning to sound like my parents.......
proups, We had a manager here who did just that, and yes, he lost his job. It seems we have people in management and in hourly who are stupid enough to do most anything. I believe most in both positions make and effort to do the right thing though. As usual we hear more of the bad than the good. I guess the good is just too boring to keep our attention. My Hell, I'm beginning to sound like my parents.......
I
interested
Guest
Proups,
When I used the terminology "it is what it is" I was using that as an example to demonstrate how we at Ups are so ready to accept the status quo.
"It is what it is" because we have not tried to make the ERI something that it can be-which is a better tool for the measurement of our employees professional environment.
I think WHENEVER we just dismiss any initative at Ups that people have strong feelings about as "it is what it is" that we are setting a dangerous precedent for mediocrity.
I agree with you that we should concentrate on the results of the ERI, but is it fair to dismiss hard working, professional people who care a great deal about Ups, because they have questions about how the ERI arrived at those results? Shouldn't we take that as a strong message that it's time to overhaul the ERI?
I would like to hear you opinion on this, I think your feedback is valuable to this board.
(Message edited by interested on October 13, 2003)
When I used the terminology "it is what it is" I was using that as an example to demonstrate how we at Ups are so ready to accept the status quo.
"It is what it is" because we have not tried to make the ERI something that it can be-which is a better tool for the measurement of our employees professional environment.
I think WHENEVER we just dismiss any initative at Ups that people have strong feelings about as "it is what it is" that we are setting a dangerous precedent for mediocrity.
I agree with you that we should concentrate on the results of the ERI, but is it fair to dismiss hard working, professional people who care a great deal about Ups, because they have questions about how the ERI arrived at those results? Shouldn't we take that as a strong message that it's time to overhaul the ERI?
I would like to hear you opinion on this, I think your feedback is valuable to this board.
(Message edited by interested on October 13, 2003)
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proups
Guest
If we are to make the ERI anything better than a number to be chased, then we have to look at the results NOW - as a team.
Then we take the questions that were not as favorable as we would like, and develop honest solutions to them - as a team.
Then we implement the solutions - as a team.
The malcontents on this board will call me naive, but it works - I've seen it happen.
Then we take the questions that were not as favorable as we would like, and develop honest solutions to them - as a team.
Then we implement the solutions - as a team.
The malcontents on this board will call me naive, but it works - I've seen it happen.
I
interested
Guest
Tie,
Being called an idiot is not civil discourse.
Responding to someone who calls you an idiot in like fashion is even worse. In the scope of things what is being called a name on a message board? How can that possibly affect you to the point that you feel it necessary to involve yourself as a member of the management team in that type of behavior. Why do you take something that innocuous serious?
Did it ever cross your mind that those very same people are trying to illicit a predicted response from you?
Let it go. You have over 700 posts on this board-you obviously have a lot to say. I am interested to hear your viewpoint on different subjects-as I am sure many others are too.
Being called an idiot is not civil discourse.
Responding to someone who calls you an idiot in like fashion is even worse. In the scope of things what is being called a name on a message board? How can that possibly affect you to the point that you feel it necessary to involve yourself as a member of the management team in that type of behavior. Why do you take something that innocuous serious?
Did it ever cross your mind that those very same people are trying to illicit a predicted response from you?
Let it go. You have over 700 posts on this board-you obviously have a lot to say. I am interested to hear your viewpoint on different subjects-as I am sure many others are too.
I
interested
Guest
Proups,
I am confused on your last posting. When you say that we have to work as a team on the results of the ERI I agree with you.
Where my confusion is also revolves around your use of team. Are you saying that by questioning the ERI and its results that we are dividing the team and working against the ERI in its present form?
I am confused on your last posting. When you say that we have to work as a team on the results of the ERI I agree with you.
Where my confusion is also revolves around your use of team. Are you saying that by questioning the ERI and its results that we are dividing the team and working against the ERI in its present form?
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dannyboy
Guest
That is right there Pro UPS. Problem is when you have 98% of the drivers taking part in the ERI, and there are 7 that have not taken it this year, and there are only 49 drivers in your center, what does that tell you? Who were the 6 drivers that took it twice?
And with that knowledge, do you really think that management in this center will really work honestly to fix problems that "showed" up as problem areas on the ERI?
This was the first year in 4 years that I was able to take it, they allways found some excuse. And while there were many things that were very positive, there are many areas that need improvement, both hourly and management.
d
And with that knowledge, do you really think that management in this center will really work honestly to fix problems that "showed" up as problem areas on the ERI?
This was the first year in 4 years that I was able to take it, they allways found some excuse. And while there were many things that were very positive, there are many areas that need improvement, both hourly and management.
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proups
Guest
team: management and non-management working together rather than management developing the action plans and implementing them.
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dannyboy
Guest
That sounds like some of the other groups that UPS had meeting a few years ago. Some good things came out of them, but it made the teamsters afraid, so they scrubed the meetings. Shame! IMHO those were some of the best years UPS had going. Volume went through the roof, and employees seemed more involved in what was going on with UPS. It was our company, not just managements.
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