wkmac
Well-Known Member
Must have been a Wall Streeter whose burned through his earlier stimulus money!
Don't you grow tired of these "welfare queens" always out begging the gov't for another handout!
Gov healthcare
- Thread starter DS
- Start date
Must have been a Wall Streeter whose burned through his earlier stimulus money!
Don't you grow tired of these "welfare queens" always out begging the gov't for another handout!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
A rather interesting piece from someone who grew up in Britain on the subject of Insuring Healthcare.
klein
Für Meno :)
Hey Devil, sorry, I don't quite agree with your english report.
You work for UPS (have basically free care), do you see a doctor more often ?
I don't. Have my chicken noodle soup, and sweat it out.
Very few people like sitting at a waiting room, and being checked out.
Most will just rough it for a few days, and return to health that way.
My personal opinion, anyways.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
From Anthony Gregory at the Independent Institute
Socialist or Corporatist Medicine
And dare you read it!
Health Care: An Anarchist Approach
Klein,
Just go do something else because I'd hate to know you went to the Center for a Stateless Society website and your head exploded!
Ain't it time you reported to work because I think the beer stores are open now!
I know that was cold blooded but "IT IS WHAT IT IS!"
Socialist or Corporatist Medicine
And dare you read it!
Health Care: An Anarchist Approach
Klein,
Just go do something else because I'd hate to know you went to the Center for a Stateless Society website and your head exploded!
Ain't it time you reported to work because I think the beer stores are open now!
I know that was cold blooded but "IT IS WHAT IT IS!"
wkmac
Well-Known Member
chicken soup and a apple a day ?
He also needs to learn how the immune system is suppressed by alcohol consumption. He described long waits at the doctor office and when I go to the doctor I maybe wait 5 minutes in the waiting room and then maybe 5 minutes or so when I go back. Barring some extra issues, I'm 15 minutes from his office and generally I go and am back home inside of an hour.
I wonder why Klein has such a long wait and I don't?
Hmmmmmm!
klein
Für Meno :)
From Anthony Gregory at the Independent Institute
Socialist or Corporatist Medicine
And dare you read it!
Health Care: An Anarchist Approach
Klein,
Just go do something else because I'd hate to know you went to the Center for a Stateless Society website and your head exploded!
Ain't it time you reported to work because I think the beer stores are open now!
I know that was cold blooded but "IT IS WHAT IT IS!"
10am likor stores open up, no sooner then that (goverment rules and regulations), which you know, I love. Keeps me sober atleast until noon..LOL
Clinics:
Waiting times aren't too bad here, haven't read thru a whole magazine, yet. And normally, if I call in advance and book an appointment. IT's normally not longer then 5min, either. It all depends, somedays longer, somedays shorter.
I still don't like the going to Doctor experience. Never have.
Walk in clinics are somewhat a differnet story. I got in once after 2 minutes, and another time it took almost an hr (just depending how busy they are).
But, speaking of beer again. I'm either going to Kitchner, Ontario,(for the largest Octoberfest in North America) in October... or heading to Germany for the real thing. Looking forward to that, making a decision next week.
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TechGrrl
Space Cadet
From Anthony Gregory at the Independent Institute
Socialist or Corporatist Medicine
And dare you read it!
Health Care: An Anarchist Approach
You certainly bring up some interesting points to discuss. Having read through these articles, I can agree with some of the points, but not others.
FREX, I can't accept not licensing health care professionals. In a small community, it is possible to know your neighbors, and know whether they are competent or not. In a complex society such as ours, that is impossible. So licensing of doctors, while stipulating that there is a bit of controlling supply going on, is necessary in order to insure a minimal level of quality. Otherwise the death toll is too high. How would I, in a practical way, be able to choose a doctor absent licensing requirements? I have no way to evaluate them myself. And if you suggest that there be some review mechanism set up to report on the success or failure of doctors, you simply create the trust problem all over again. We have such mechanisms today, and still the incompetents sneak through the cracks.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Better hurry with decision, Octoberfest in Germany is actually in August.
klein
Für Meno :)
Even though it doesn't belong on this thread, a brief history of Octoberfest. :
It started almost 200 years ago, and was at first a huge famers market, where farmers would bring in thier harvest for the year to the market, to sell to the city folks.
There are 2 huge Octoberfests in Germany. The most famous one is in Munich (Sept 19- Oct 4th, 2009)
And there is also the Stuttgarter Volksfest, in Stuttgart (Sept. 25 - Oct. 11 ). Almost just as big , but for some odd reason, not as famous.
Stuttgart is home of Mercedes and Porsche.
Munich is home of BMW.
I been to both of them, and still have plenty of old school and work friends in Stuttgart. Just talked to one this Sunday, actually.
Prosit !
wkmac
Well-Known Member
“ObamaCare Is All About Rationing” and Tax Increases, Obama Adviser Says
TechGrrl
Unlike most, at least you admitted the current system has it's faults as well and not nearly as perfect as some would want us to believe. I respect that.
Thanks!
TechGrrl
Unlike most, at least you admitted the current system has it's faults as well and not nearly as perfect as some would want us to believe. I respect that.
Thanks!
Canadians visit U.S. to get care
Deal lets many go to Michigan hospitals
Dany Mercado, a leukemia patient from Kitchener, Ontario, is cancer-free after getting a bone marrow transplant at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute in Detroit.
Told by Canadian doctors in 2007 he couldn't have the procedure there, Mercado's family and doctor appealed to Ontario health officials, who agreed to let him have the transplant in Detroit in January 2008.
Deal lets many go to Michigan hospitals
Dany Mercado, a leukemia patient from Kitchener, Ontario, is cancer-free after getting a bone marrow transplant at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute in Detroit.
Told by Canadian doctors in 2007 he couldn't have the procedure there, Mercado's family and doctor appealed to Ontario health officials, who agreed to let him have the transplant in Detroit in January 2008.
TechGrrl
Space Cadet
The current system is totally dysfunctional, and unsustainable as well. The health insurance companies are leeches on the body politic, and unlike SMART parasites, are unconcerned about the health of their host. They are following the 'greed is good', 'I'm getting mine and devil take the hindmost' model of Wall Street, not seeing the cliff they are driving the American economy over.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
No argument here. The problem is, the more the gov't regulates and suppresses the true "free market" in favor of capitalism otherwise known as mercantilism, the more you'll have this:
Case in point is from Wednesday's AP newswire.
Firms with Obama ties profit from health push
And even after a bath ie 06' and 08' elections, republicans when you look aren't any cleaner.
and let's not forget those secret meetings we all heard about and then maybe there is a good reason the Obama adminstration maintains an adamant position of keeping the contents of these meetings secret. Same reason as Cheney and those infamous energy meetings. God forbid the public should learn about some of the pipeline systems proposed (here and here) to bring oil from the Caspain Sea Basin. They might have the stones to look on a map of that area and figure out the need for the wars over the last 20 years to secure rights over land routes or in the case of one member of the evil axis, to profit and enter the market place via it's own Caspian Sea Coastline!
And so many thought that Clinton was above Oil Wars. We also had this and this from those Clinton years that so little of is ever talked about. Wonder why?At least some progressives/paleo liberals get it with healthcare and are speaking out.
Guess What? He's a Terrible President
Block Obama's Abject Surrender to Insurance and Drug Companies
And it may seem like a stretch but if one were willing to look and connect dots, this move by the Obama adminstration sure raises a tons of probing questions. Techgrrl, in "How Does the White House Counter Dissent at Town Hall Meetings"you made some very good comments in post #65, #66 & #67 showing that you understand at some level how "crony capitalism uses gov't not in the spirit of true free market but for purely economic advantage and in fact to destroy true free market economics while maintaining an illusion of such. In response to understanding the connection of Monsanto to all of this, I'd make 2 suggestions. First, go to google video and watch, "The World According To Monsanto" and then go see the movie Food INC. Your understanding of crony capitalism will make you appreciate both movies IMO.
Do you remember that ole saying about gov't not meant to compliment?
It wasn't for humor, it was a caveat!
BTW as an aside to your Blackwater comments in the White House/Townhall thread, you'll also enjoy Jeremy Scahill's piece in the Nation of the very same subject. Scott Horton of KAOS-FM in Austin Texas did an interview of Jeremy for AntiWar radio that you might find interesting as well. Jeremy has also done a good job on Blackwater at Rebel Reports which is his website.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I've heard Obama's plan allowed for illegal aliens to access our healthcare but didn't understand how so thanks for clearing that up.
At Klein, DS and some of our other northern friends who right now are jumping up and down screaming at me! Just messing with ya guys!
tieguy
Banned
And the insurance companies will tell you that thier costs are being driven by the number of lawsuits being generated in this sue happy society, by drug companies overcharging for their products etc.
note: Liberal approach when looking to raise taxes create resentment against those who have money. when looking to socialize health care create resentment against insurance companies charging too much. Liberals tend to use the class warefare concepts to sell their objectives.
So the happy solution appears to be to create a public option that will compete directly with these insurance companies like the post office competes with us. So a Question might be has the post office driven down the cost of shipping a package?
It really has not. The post office supplies a service to those who want the cheapest shipping option with no regards for quality of service. the post office is poorly managed and is presently going to cost the taxpayers 2.5 billion that it lost. UPS has basically chosen not to drop their prices to compete with the post office because they can not afford to do so. thus no price reductions as expected in the health industry. Looking at the government run public option in shipping there really is no incentive to have that option unless you want a cheap/ no frills you'll get it when you get it service.
klein
Für Meno :)
I've heard Obama's plan allowed for illegal aliens to access our healthcare but didn't understand how so thanks for clearing that up.
Well, now DS might scream at me...
It's no wonder, Toronto doesn't even have room for thier own garbage (goes to Michigan).......
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Common SenseHas anyone heard a government plan to increase the number of Medical Personel in America ?
Has anyone heard any incentive to continue with a Medical career in America ?
Has anyone heard of a government plan to build more Hospitals and Medical facilities coast to coast ?
Of course -add 27 million people ----no other ingredients necessary ! It will be another great stew the government will provide for us.
Hospitals are closing in many states -due to illegal immigrants "breaking the bank"
Tort lawyers continue to drive people away from a medical career with sky high settlements that make them rich.
True reform would be TORT reform, Expand private Insurance company competition intra and inter state, one page legislation to mandate companies to cover pre-conditions and would also prevent them from dropping any individual due to serious illness.
Cinergy.com on the West coast --under poor conditions {Tort} offer complete insurance including pre-conditions, dental and vision for less that a pack of cigarettes or Starbucks coffee per day.
It is this Administration that is putting out MISINFORMATION. Get the special interests group --Tort LAWYERS --out of our pockets !!!
TechGrrl
Space Cadet
They can tell us that, but it simply isn't true. It's called LYING.
Read this article:
Tort Reform?
One contributor to the article states:"Tort reform in Texas was supposedly passed to decrease the incentive for people with non-meritous claims to file lawsuits. The real effect however, was to decrease the incentive and the ability of those with meritous claims to file lawsuits. Our courts already have numerous mechanisms in place to dismiss non-meritous cases. There's motions to dismiss, summary judgments, and the contingency-fee agreement, and judges have the ability to issue directed verdicts. Tort reform isn't about cheaper health care, it's about legislating away financial risk to insurers, which exist solely to assume responsibility for that risk. "
Here's another article, near to my heart, since I am stuck with Mitch McConnell and Jim Bunning as my senators:
Tort Reform Doesn't Cut Health Costs
I find this part compelling:
"Boston surgeon Atul Gawande visited McAllen and wrote an account for The New Yorker, "The Conundrum: What a Texas town can teach us about health care" that's required reading for anyone trying to understand this admittedly baffling topic.
One night at dinner with six local doctors he asked why the average cost per Medicare enrollee had soared from $4,891, about the national average in 1992, to almost twice the national average of $15,000 per enrollee in 2006.
For perspective, the per capita income in McAllen is only $12,000.
Several of the physicians said doctors practiced defensive medicine to protect themselves from the city's especially aggressive lawyers; they ordered extra tests and procedures which drive up costs.
But what about the strict limits on malpractice damages. Haven't lawsuits gone down?
"Practically to zero," one of the docs said.
What's finally revealed is that doctors in McAllen are heavily invested in medical technology and imaging and surgery centers. They order lots of tests and procedures because they directly profit from them. They think of what they do as a business."
There are real things we could do to cut health care costs, but cutting off a mechanism which is often the little guy's only recourse against the big guys is not one of them.
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