Gov healthcare
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av8torntn
Well-Known Member
klein
Für Meno :)
If you are referring back to 1921, Canada was very simular to the US, actually the US even had Social Security before we did.
Our National Healthcare didn't really kick in until 1966. And only by 1984 was the Canadian Healthcare Act implemtented, that would free Canadians of any user fees.
Starting in 1946 only one province had some form of pre paid healthcare services, and other provinces started doing the same in the 1950"s.
We basically joined the rest of the world, and every Canadian will tell you, it was the best move the government ever did.
We also went metric in the mid 70's.
Ireland is the lastest country that converted to metric, in 2005. (they had to, to be excepted in the EU).
That only leaves the US, as the only major country , that hasn't converted. Same as National Healthcare.
So, I wouldn't name every country on earth socialist, just because of a cheaper, universal healthcare coverage.
If LBJ would have had his way, you would have beaten us in National Healthcare coverage, too. :
Diane Francis
Editor at Large, the National Post
Posted: August 19, 2009 02:31 PM
LBJ Created Canada's Superior Health Care System
As the health care establishment appears to be once again able to block any reasonable changes to America's sick health care system, it's important to note that, ironically, the "father" of Canada's universal, single-payer health care system was late President Lyndon B. Johnson. In 1964, his plan caused Canadian Prime Minister Lester Pearson to rush the same health care scheme into existence so that Ottawa was not beaten by the Americans, as was the case in 1934 with Social Security. As things turned out, LBJ compromised with the Republicans and scaled back his plan to a co-payer insurance for senior citizens, or Medicare. So it's hardly surprising that, again, a popular President cannot win out against the nasty tactics and enormous wealth of the medical vested interests.
And yet, today Canada's system is not only as good as America's, but better medically speaking, according to the World Health Organization. Even more dramatic, it is between 30 and 60% cheaper for procedures, medications and hospital stays. Despite compelling evidence, the status quo remains south of the border and American voters/media appear to be unaware of the need for change. There are billions in profits being made at the expense of Americans and the country's economy.
more :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-francis/lbj-created-canadas-super_b_263259.html
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Sort of but I thought we had established that Canada or a Canadian did not discover insulin. I wanted your definition because I see you as a socialist and I was really curious if you saw yourself as a socialist. Even among socialists they tend to disagree on what socialism really means.
Since insulin was discovered in Germany and I think by now everyone can agree on that it is more like what type of health care system did they have? Who had to take that discovery to the next level? Who had to produce what they discovered to provide the masses with diabetes some relief from certain death?
But I really just wanted to know your definition of socialism and since I asked I'll give you mine.
The short version is the ownership or control by the community of the production or distribution of goods or services. (you kids that are still in school give me a break it's been years)
klein
Für Meno :)
Well, living and working in Germany for 14 years, until I was 27 years old, comming back to Canada was a bit of a cold bath shock.
I wasn't used to all this senority stuff, laid out my the unions, on how wages and vacations are given.
In Germany basically every job is unionized, but they don't have the North American structure to them.
Vacation goes by age, not how long you been with the company. And wages are basically the same, as if I just started there, or someone there for 5 years.
But, most companies in Germany, pay over union wages. As a bonus. You can only get them, by being there a while.
And any screw-ups, the company can revoke all or part of thier volunteer bonuses to an individual.
So, I find people are kind of job-locked here. They rather stay then lose seniority and vacation, and in most cases some bennies.
Dentist bills and Prescription drugs are also mostly all paid for in Europe, by the government (not in Canada).
But, I think you get socialisum mixed up with communisum.
You could live in a dictatorship, like Nazi Germany, that probably had more social welfare, then Canada has today.
I actually vote conservative, and we have a conservative government here, while the US has currently a liberal government.
Social is exactly what it stands for : Social programs, like welfare, your social food stamps, education for everyone - thats social. So is protection for everyone.
Basically for the health and welfare of every citizen.
You have a few African ,(and even asian), Nations for example, that basically rob the poor, for thier leaders (and friends, family, and closest followers),to live like King and Queens.
Thats anti-social.
Then you have countries, such like the Scandanavian ones.... where they tax a lot, esspecially the rich, to spend it, so almost everyone can live a really good life (free Daycare, medical, generous welfare program, etc). Everyone has appropiate shelter, and always food and clothing. They even subsidize the utilty bills for low income people.
Actually, the only difference I found between the US and Canada, is yes, we pay higher taxes (not income taxes), but taxes on beer, cigs, even gas.
But, it's the healthcare, and we get more for unemployment (still not enough to live on), but double then the US. (but we probably pay more into it, too).
As far as free market goes... it's here just like in the US. We have all that oil in Alberta, yet we have to pay the market price, like everyone else.
Our dollar is also traded on the free market (not like the Chinese Yuan)...by the government.
As far as me being social, yes I am a bit, but would not vote Liberal, to make it even more social.
I would sure hate to see people starving or ghettos being constructed, while the rich get richer, though.
Good riddens we don't have slums or ghettos here. I would not be proud of this country if we did.
So, being a little social to avoid that from happening... yes, that I am.
And that goes for healthcare, too. I could not imagine seeing friends or relatives going broke or bk, because of medical bills.. or familes being uninsured, because the man has been laid off.
Even saving up for early retirement makes it much more difficult, if you need to extra save for health insurance.
Thats enough. Now you know.
tieguy
Banned
Well, that's because you cut off that wikipedia article right before it mentioned them
Here's the rest:
I think the part I pasted appears to be indicate discovery and purpose. At that point I'm not sure the canadian had much more to do then live in the house that was built for him.
All your part appears to do is reaffirm that many canadians are very good at living in housing provided them.
tieguy
Banned
you should google it like you everything else.
tieguy
Banned
If you are referring back to 1921, Canada was very simular to the US, actually the US even had Social Security before we did.
Our National Healthcare didn't really kick in until 1966. And only by 1984 was the Canadian Healthcare Act implemtented, that would free Canadians of any user fees.
Starting in 1946 only one province had some form of pre paid healthcare services, and other provinces started doing the same in the 1950"s.
We basically joined the rest of the world, and every Canadian will tell you, it was the best move the government ever did.
We also went metric in the mid 70's.
Ireland is the lastest country that converted to metric, in 2005. (they had to, to be excepted in the EU).
That only leaves the US, as the only major country , that hasn't converted. Same as National Healthcare.
So, I wouldn't name every country on earth socialist, just because of a cheaper, universal healthcare coverage.
If LBJ would have had his way, you would have beaten us in National Healthcare coverage, too. :
Diane Francis
Editor at Large, the National Post
Posted: August 19, 2009 02:31 PM
LBJ Created Canada's Superior Health Care System
As the health care establishment appears to be once again able to block any reasonable changes to America's sick health care system, it's important to note that, ironically, the "father" of Canada's universal, single-payer health care system was late President Lyndon B. Johnson. In 1964, his plan caused Canadian Prime Minister Lester Pearson to rush the same health care scheme into existence so that Ottawa was not beaten by the Americans, as was the case in 1934 with Social Security. As things turned out, LBJ compromised with the Republicans and scaled back his plan to a co-payer insurance for senior citizens, or Medicare. So it's hardly surprising that, again, a popular President cannot win out against the nasty tactics and enormous wealth of the medical vested interests.
And yet, today Canada's system is not only as good as America's, but better medically speaking, according to the World Health Organization. Even more dramatic, it is between 30 and 60% cheaper for procedures, medications and hospital stays. Despite compelling evidence, the status quo remains south of the border and American voters/media appear to be unaware of the need for change. There are billions in profits being made at the expense of Americans and the country's economy.
more :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-francis/lbj-created-canadas-super_b_263259.html
there you go canada the country invented socialism.
klein
Für Meno :)
Actually we sell expensive oil to the USA, and with all that money, we get those freebies here. Thanks !
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Nope I don't.
Thanks for your view.
That explains lot's. I would prefer freedom and my guess is that you would prefer other to always make every decision or at least the important one for you.
klein
Für Meno :)
How do you compare healthcare with freedom ?
Did you have the freedom to chose your own health insurance, or the freedom to chose none at all, and take the money instead ?
Who really pays for your health beenies ? Not you, not UPS, but in the end , every single consumer.
Did these end consumers have the freedom to say no, we don't want to support your healthcare ?
They only freedom you have, that we don't, is the freedom to carry guns.
You don't have nationwide freedom to same sex marriages.
Nor abortions (it's her body, not the governments ) !!!
Nor can you smoke weed, without the chance going to jail.
You don't have the freedom to smoke a cuban cigar, or even go there.
You don't have the freedom to switch jobs, without some healthcare changes (either none, or a waiting period to get enrolled again).
Or did you know, you don't actually need a passport to enter Canada as an American, but you need one to re-enter the USA (to get back into your home country).
(Canadians can't enter the US, without a passport, but we can re-enter without one). (last 2 items, provided you drive , since now all international flights require a passport for security reasons).
Thats just a few I can think of. There are probably many more. Like being able to drink and purchase alcohol as an adult (which is 18 years of age, here and in the US)
So, again, what is your freedom point here ?????
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Makes me think of the great Oscar Wilde who said, "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious!" The fall IMO has already happened, we only await the final scene of the play when the curtain comes back finally to reveal the illusion we've been living.
You've really got it in for that guy
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
While that may be true in the end it really does not apply here in my opinion. We have seen many protest. We have seen large numbers of Americans petition their government against this law. We will see many legal challenges.
In short there has already been a fight against this for a year and it continues.
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Well first before I address that question I will point out that you are wrong about abortion, "weed", switching jobs, and going to Cuba.
My freedom point is that you feel that every human is the ward of their government. I feel that every human should have certain basic freedoms and our government exists only because we allow it.
klein
Für Meno :)
I vote. Just like you vote for a captain on a football team (minors), or a condo assocciation, or city mayor.
You voted for your shop steward.
We basically vote to have someone represent when in comes to larger groups, including government.
okay, maybe you guys finally lifted Cuba travel ban, and can legally buy cuban cigars now.
And you're free to fight in Irak at 18 years of age, but can't go to a bar in your home country. Or even buy likor.
And you can now smoke weed infront of bars and cops.
You're finally getting more lienent ! And probably have "tea (pot) cafe's" like we do.
Be happy, finally getting the freedom we enjoy.
