Government Motors

[MrFedEx]

the electric car has been around for more years than the gasoline powered ones.
how much more tinkering do you think they need ?

Yep, electric cars and trucks were fairly common as far back as 1920, almost exclusively in urban areas. Battery technology has evolved to the point where they actually make sense in limited applications. For now, the really good ones cost way too much and have too little range. With all the R&D going on right now, they're getting very close to hitting the mark.

 

[brett636]

Yep, electric cars and trucks were fairly common as far back as 1920, almost exclusively in urban areas. Battery technology has evolved to the point where they actually make sense in limited applications. For now, the really good ones cost way too much and have too little range. With all the R&D going on right now, they're getting very close to hitting the mark.

Unfortunately nobody is getting close to the mark IMHO. We have designed our lives around a vehicle that can be fueled up, driven around, refueled in a few min., and continue on our way and even the most advanced electric cars simply cannot do this. The only company getting electric cars right is Tesla Motors and even their cars have a fatal flaw about them where if the battery packs become completely drained the car becomes a brick and costs $40k to fix.

The problem with you liberals is that you want us to restructure our lives around the least practical, and least sustainable energy source when it comes to transportation. Electrical power is not in infinite supply and our demand for it increases every year despite the fact that few new power plants are coming online and many are slated for closure over the next few years because they won't be able to meet future emissions requirements. The electric car is a pipe dream that is still many years from becoming mainstream. We will need fossil fuels for our main mode of transportation for at least the next 2 decades or longer, and we aren't allowing ourselves to fully develop that area of our economy either. You think energy is expensive now wait till the cows come home from the energy policies set in place by the politicians you support today. $4/gallon gas will seem like the good old days before you know it.

 

[moreluck]

 

[Babagounj]

Wind farms in the Pacific Northwest — built with government subsidies and maintained with tax credits for every megawatt produced — are now getting paid to shut down as the federal agency charged with managing the region’s electricity grid says there’s an oversupply of renewable power at certain times of the year.
The problem arose during the late spring and early summer last year. Rapid snow melt filled the Columbia River Basin. The water rushed through the 31 dams run by the Bonneville Power Administration, a federal agency based in Portland, Ore., allowing for peak hydropower generation. At the very same time, the wind howled, leading to maximum wind power production.
“It’s the one system in the world where in real time, moment to moment, you have to produce as much energy as is being consumed,” BPA spokesman Doug Johnson said of the renewable energy.
Wind companies will be handed up to $50 million per year to compensate them for half their lost revenue. That money comes out of your pocket. The other half will be made up with higher power bills. That too comes out of your pocket.
By the way, the reason they can’t shut down the more productive hydroelectric plants instead is that environmental regulations forbid it, lest spilling excessive water over the dam result in too much oxygen in the water for the sacred salmon swimming around at the base.
Moonbattery

 

[MrFedEx]

Unfortunately nobody is getting close to the mark IMHO. We have designed our lives around a vehicle that can be fueled up, driven around, refueled in a few min., and continue on our way and even the most advanced electric cars simply cannot do this. The only company getting electric cars right is Tesla Motors and even their cars have a fatal flaw about them where if the battery packs become completely drained the car becomes a brick and costs $40k to fix.

The problem with you liberals is that you want us to restructure our lives around the least practical, and least sustainable energy source when it comes to transportation. Electrical power is not in infinite supply and our demand for it increases every year despite the fact that few new power plants are coming online and many are slated for closure over the next few years because they won't be able to meet future emissions requirements. The electric car is a pipe dream that is still many years from becoming mainstream. We will need fossil fuels for our main mode of transportation for at least the next 2 decades or longer, and we aren't allowing ourselves to fully develop that area of our economy either. You think energy is expensive now wait till the cows come home from the energy policies set in place by the politicians you support today. $4/gallon gas will seem like the good old days before you know it.

I don't care what you drive, and I'm not preaching about it. It just makes sense to explore alternative energy sources. I'd never drive a Prius, much less a full electric car. Not cost-effective, and no fun either. I like my Dodge 2500 with the Cummins a lot.

 

[moreluck]

Ralphie May does a 'bit' on Prius....it's a riot!!

In case you never heard of Ralphie, here's a sample......(language warning)

ralphie may - YouTube

 

[island1fox]

Do you mean Americans like you? You need to wake-up and realize that the new GM is a phenomenal success. It's all about attacking Obama, even when he does the right thing and America benefits. You sound like a Commie who hates America.

FX,


Again take off the liberal blinders. If you were one of the unions with GM bonds in pension funds or a holder of GM bonds --Obama screwed you and paid off the auto union. Time will tell where GM will go and with the lunatics now running the asylym . Re-distribute peoples wealth --even when most of those Bond holders were not wealthy. Now thats the FAIR way things are done under Obama. There were many other ways to re-structure G.M. --Obama knows only one way --take it from earners and redistribute it to campaign contributors.

 

[brett636]

I don't care what you drive, and I'm not preaching about it. It just makes sense to explore alternative energy sources. I'd never drive a Prius, much less a full electric car. Not cost-effective, and no fun either. I like my Dodge 2500 with the Cummins a lot.

Then why aren't you preaching alternatives like compressed natural gas? It burns cleaner and we have a 100 years worth on tap right now beneath our feet with 4-5 times more than that untapped. It makes more sense because today's vehicles can be retrofitted to it, and we don't have to change our lifestyle in order to stick it to the middle east. Electric cars can only work for those who can afford to own multiple cars, and as they age they make less sense because their batteries wear out and are very expensive to replace. Not to mention our electrical grid simply could not handle a mass movement towards electric vehicles. If you want to preach alternatives preach for those that are feasible, not those that are not.

 

[moreluck]

Then why aren't you preaching alternatives like compressed natural gas? It burns cleaner and we have a 100 years worth on tap right now beneath our feet with 4-5 times more than that untapped. It makes more sense because today's vehicles can be retrofitted to it, and we don't have to change our lifestyle in order to stick it to the middle east. Electric cars can only work for those who can afford to own multiple cars, and as they age they make less sense because their batteries wear out and are very expensive to replace. Not to mention our electrical grid simply could not handle a mass movement towards electric vehicles. If you want to preach alternatives preach for those that are feasible, not those that are not.

All of our garbage trucks (in my area) are natural gas.

You know, to make natural gas the main goal wouldn't spend the amount of money that Obama likes to spend. He would rather throw the really big bucks at solar and elec.
He'd rather have to build elec charge stations totally across this country for the few elec cars that people might buy .

 

[brett636]

All of our garbage trucks (in my area) are natural gas.

You know, to make natural gas the main goal wouldn't spend the amount of money that Obama likes to spend. He would rather throw the really big bucks at solar and elec.
He'd rather have to build elec charge stations totally across this country for the few elec cars that people might buy .

He would rather throw money at alternatives that are nowhere close to becoming alternatives. Once solar and wind start to go mainstream the liberals will cry about them and move onto another unsustainable energy source because the bottom line is they do not wish us to have the standard of living we enjoy today. Their overall goal is to "de-evolve" the United States economically and anything that keeps us the economic superpower of the world is not worthy of our energy future in their eyes.

 

[klein]

Have you "experts" ever driven a propane or natural gas vehicle ?
The refrigerated van I have runs on propane. Also had a propane powered van for the grocery store I owned.
Taxi-cabs used to drive propane powered cars here.

Gas burns like crap in the winter months, period ! Taxis stalled, so did my van (if you even get it started) !
The other few negatives about it : Your not allowed to park in any parkades, and there are no such things with self serve gas stations.
You need an attendant to fill it up.
I also run out of propane gas a few times. Those gauges just don't seem to work properly and always subject to outside temperatures.

Only thing I like about propane is, it's much cheaper to run on (more miles per gallon). Other than that - it's a hassle !

 

[brett636]

Have you "experts" ever driven a propane or natural gas vehicle ?
The refrigerated van I have runs on propane. Also had a propane powered van for the grocery store I owned.
Taxi-cabs used to drive propane powered cars here.

Gas burns like crap in the winter months, period ! Taxis stalled, so did my van (if you even get it started) !
The other few negatives about it : Your not allowed to park in any parkades, and there are no such things with self serve gas stations.
You need an attendant to fill it up.
I also run out of propane gas a few times. Those gauges just don't seem to work properly and always subject to outside temperatures.

Only thing I like about propane is, it's much cheaper to run on (more miles per gallon). Other than that - it's a hassle !

There are two natural gas self serve filling stations within 10 miles of where I live. What the hell is a parkade?

 

[klein]

There are two natural gas self serve filling stations within 10 miles of where I live. What the hell is a parkade?

I doubt that (self serve natural gas). You need gloves (the gas freezes), and also a tight connection.
A parkade is what you'ld probably call a parking garage ??>??

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I believe it is the new Chevy Silverado that will have the option of gasoline or CNG.

 

[Babagounj]

UPS used to have some cng vehicles around Boston.
They didn't last long.
A problem that developed was a friend/T driver used one for Sat Delv. and ran out of fuel , while he was 30 miles from the nearest filling station.

 

[Babagounj]

(Reuters) - A $100,000-plus Fisker Automotive luxury sports car died during Consumer Reports speed testing this week for reasons that are still unknown, leaving the struggling electric car startup with another blow to its image.
"It is a little disconcerting that you pay that amount of money for a car and it lasts basically 180 miles before going wrong," David Champion, senior director for the magazine's automotive test center, told Reuters, on Thursday.

Consumer Reports, which buys the cars its tests anonymously, purchased the car from a Connecticut dealer last Friday.
On Wednesday, Consumer Reports engineers were just starting to calibrate the Karma's speed by driving 65 miles per hour down the magazine's test track in East Haddam, Connecticut, Champion said.
"During the gentle run down the track, a light on the dashboard came on," he said, referring to the battery light.
The speed test was completed despite the light on the control panel, but after it was parked, officials were unable to get the car restarted.

 

[brett636]

I doubt that (self serve natural gas). You need gloves (the gas freezes), and also a tight connection.
A parkade is what you'ld probably call a parking garage ??>??

Perhaps for a Canadian citizen putting on a pair of gloves is a difficult task, but for those of us south of the border we have it down pat. These stations I am referring to are run by the local gas utility, and they are just a couple of pumps under a canopy. There is no place for an attendant to stay as the pumps take credit cards and are open 24 hours a day. As I stated, they are self serve natural gas filling stations. And yes, we call those parking garages since that is what they are. Parkade sounds like a name some backwards foreign country would call them.

I believe it is the new Chevy Silverado that will have the option of gasoline or CNG.

I haven't heard that, but I imagine its true. I know you can go on ebay and find dual fuel F150s that are both gasoline and CNG which are usually former utility company trucks. Honda also makes a CNG powered civic for everyone to buy.

UPS used to have some cng vehicles around Boston.
They didn't last long.
A problem that developed was a friend/T driver used one for Sat Delv. and ran out of fuel , while he was 30 miles from the nearest filling station.

That issue could be resolved with the federal government mandated that all new vehicles it purchases be CNG powered. This could create a demand for many more CNG filling stations(along with more CNG powered vehicles) so that would be less of an issue. I do know pilot is in the process of adding CNG and LNG pumps to some of its truck stops since some companies are switching to CNG and LNG powered trucks. Clean Energy to Add Natural Gas Fueling Stations at Pilot Flying J Centers | Transport Topics Online | Trucking, Freight Transportation and Logistics News

Considering we have such a large natural gas supply beneath our feet it makes more sense to expand the use of it for our transportation needs. Brazil mandated that ethanol be available for motorists use since they can grow the crops that actaully make sense to turn into ethanol(not corn). Ethanol makes less sense for us, but CNG does make perfect sense.

 

[moreluck]

Obama's Bad Karma- $193 Million and the Car Won't Run on the Test Track - Bob Beauprez - Townhall Finance Conservative Columnists and Financial Commentary

 

[moreluck]

10 Reasons Why Fisker May Be Worse Than Solyndra | National Legal and Policy Center

 

[klein]

Future auto bailouts must include wage cuts: Canada study


TORONTO (Reuters) - Future government bailouts of ailing industries such as the C$14.4 billion ($14.50 billion) rescue of auto giants GM Canada and Chrysler Canada in 2009 should be pegged to commitments from skilled workers to take wage cuts, a study published on Wednesday says.

The study by the Institute for Research on Public Policy, a Montreal-based think tank, does not reject bailouts and said the cost to Canadian taxpayers of not stepping in to help the auto industry in 2009 would have been greater than the amount governments spent: as much as C$20 billion in economic losses.
"While the one-time bailout of GM Canada and Chrysler Canada in 2009 was successful,.......