guns

[soberups]

Weak Emotions and GUNs do not mix. Weak Emotions, drugs and/or alcohol also do not mix. Weak Emotions, drugs, Alcohol and GUNS are deadly.

But how do we figure this out before a guy like this shooter walk into a gun shop and buy enough weapons to kill hundreds?

Peace

TOS

The reality is that the availability of mental health care in this country is sadly lacking.

I dont know what the answer is. I dont think there is any foolproof method of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldnt have them....particularly when that person is as methodical and determined as the Aurora shooter, or the nut job in Norway who was able to massacre over 70 people with one in spite of Norwegian gun laws that are far stricter than those in the USA.

My guess is that something like 99.9% of all gun violence victims were unarmed when they got shot. So if you want to adopt a statistical methodology for trying to reduce gun deaths, you need to include all relevant statistics and not just the ones that support conclusions that coincide with your own personal predjudices.

 

[klein]

The reality is that the availability of mental health care in this country is sadly lacking.

I dont know what the answer is. I dont think there is any foolproof method of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldnt have them....particularly when that person is as methodical and determined as the Aurora shooter, or the nut job in Norway who was able to massacre over 70 people with one in spite of Norwegian gun laws that are far stricter than those in the USA.

My guess is that something like 99.9% of all gun violence victims were unarmed when they got shot. So if you want to adopt a statistical methodology for trying to reduce gun deaths, you need to include all relevant statistics and not just the ones that support conclusions that coincide with your own personal predjudices.

Yeah, then why don't you check out the stats and compare the muder rate in Norway to that of the US !

 

[soberups]

Well, according to you then, they need to allow the right to carry everywhere then.
And I mean everywhere - cinemas, schools, work place, sporting events, bars, librairies, campuses, etc.
Because otherwise people could find themselves in the same boat as those movie goers, unaremd and helpless.

You should get a national petetion going so new laws can be put in place so no one should ever feel unsafe and helpless, again.

In Oregon, a person with a permit already can carry legally in all of the places (schools,libraries, sporting events etc.) that you mention.

As far as a "national petition" goes...there already is one. HR 822, the National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act, would require states that issue carry permits to honor permits issued by other states, in the same way that is done with driver licenses. It has already passed in the House, and is up for consideration in the Senate.

 

[klein]

Great, maybe Oregon should hold the Olympics once.
Would be neat to see if all those right to carry people will behave, or maybe once other countries hear about US public citizens being ale to carry weapons into every event - they may just not show up ? !!!!

 

[bbsam]

The reality is that it is impossible to say what might have happened in that theater had one or more movie-goers been armed. Your little "scenario" is every bit as presumptuous and ignorant as the John Wayne types who claim they would have head-shot the guy from the back of a dark theater. For all we know, there were armed civilians there (certainly plausible in a "shall issue" state like CO) who never had a chance to draw their weapons or who (prudently, I might add) fled the theater rather than attempting to engage a shooter wearing body armor and armed with a rifle.

What we do know at this point...is that an ARMED lunatic walked in and gunned down a buinch of UNARMED victims. I dont want to be an unarmed victim. I respect your right to choose otherwise.

An armed victim and an unarmed victim die much the same way when running for the door.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Sober, have you ever gone through any type of gas mask training? We had to have annual training when I was in the service. We would walk in to the gas chamber with the gas mask on and would be instructed to take the mask off and recite the alphabet before being allowed to leave the chamber. It is very debilitating. Even had there been an armed patron at the theater he/she would not have had a gas mask and would have been at a distinct disadvantage, perhaps causing more harm than good.

On a side note---the shooter was in court yesterday and is obviously going for the insanity plea. His mannerisms, whether genuine or not, are those of someone who clearly does not know where he is or even what day it is. Granted, it was only for 11 minutes, but this is clearly a man not in control of his faculties.

 

[moreluck]

He was probably drugged for his court appearance.

 

[Babagounj]

That defense will not work in this case.
After informing the police about his apt, he immediately demanded his lawyer and shut up.

 

[Babagounj]

All this demand for grabbing everyone guns is strange.
If a drunk driver kills someone(s) where is the outrage to ban cars ?
Where is the outrage to stop selling alcohol ? Oh, they already tried that , and boy what a failure that was.

 

[bbsam]

All this demand for grabbing everyone guns is strange.
If a drunk driver kills someone(s) where is the outrage to ban cars ?
Where is the outrage to stop selling alcohol ? Oh, they already tried that , and boy what a failure that was.

If you are done being hysterical, then tell me who said anything about "grabbing everyone's guns"? There does seem to be a knee jerk defense of guns even when they aren't in the least bit at risk.

 

[moreluck]

If you are done being hysterical, then tell me who said anything about "grabbing everyone's guns"? There does seem to be a knee jerk defense of guns even when they aren't in the least bit at risk.

It was that idiot Dem. congresswoman who came out the very next day about it. Bloomberg too & Finestein somewhat.

 

[The Other Side]

The reality is that the availability of mental health care in this country is sadly lacking.

I dont know what the answer is. I dont think there is any foolproof method of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldnt have them....particularly when that person is as methodical and determined as the Aurora shooter, or the nut job in Norway who was able to massacre over 70 people with one in spite of Norwegian gun laws that are far stricter than those in the USA.

I see you were listening to that IDIOT LIMBAUGH yesterday, so lets go from there. You really want to attempt to compare ONE instance of a mass shooting in NORWAY with the COUNTLESS number of mass shootings in the USA?

And somehow that shows how gun laws dont work??

You and limbaugh have something in common then, DENIAL.

All the people killed in NORWAY barely make up the total number of people killed in the USA in a week, every week with guns. They have had ONE mass shooting with their gun restrictions and we have had hundreds with out freedom to kill each other.

Thats what the second amendment has come down to. It isnt a right for self defense, its a right to kill our fellow citizens for something as stupid as a traffic dispute. All the talk about personal defense becomes louder as gun owners continue to kill their families and friends.

As the trending goes, its no longer just about killing your families, gun owners have consciously decided to solve all of lifes problems with their guns.

Workplace shootings, school shootings, debt settlers, neighbor conflicts, drivebys, relationships and suicides, the GUN factors in each of these.

You can talk about your personal safety all you want while ignoring all the fact that people are dying in this country at alarming numbers, but its quite clear that the second amendment wasnt intended for the killing of each other.

Its only what GUN owners have turned it into.

Peace

TOS

 

[moreluck]

TOS admits to listening to R.L. and that's not Ralph Lauren!!

 

[moreluck]

News Versus Propaganda - Thomas Sowell - [page]

 

[moreluck]

Dark Night - Cal Thomas - [page]

 

[soberups]

An armed victim and an unarmed victim die much the same way when running for the door.

The armed victim had a choice of whether to run or fight. The unarmed victim didnt.

Had I been sitting in the front row of that theater armed with my concealed handgun, there is about a 99% chance that I would be dead right now. Without a weapon...there is about a 100% chance that I would be dead right now. If its all the same to you, I'd like to at least have that 1%.

 

[soberups]

I see you were listening to that IDIOT LIMBAUGH yesterday, so lets go from there.

Lets not, and say we did. I feel the same way you do about Rush Limbaugh.

You are a bigot because you make assumptions...grossly inaccurate ones at that....about my political views and media consumption habits based solely upon the fact that I own guns.

I am not a Republican, I am not a tea party member, I dont watch Fox news, and the only "Rush" that I listen to has 3 guys names Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson and Neal Peart playing instruments on a stage.

 

[soberups]

You can talk about your personal safety all you want while ignoring all the fact that people are dying in this country at alarming numbers, but its quite clear that the second amendment wasnt intended for the killing of each other.

Its only what GUN owners have turned it into.

Peace

TOS

150 million gun owners didnt murder anyone or commit any crimes yesterday.

You want to focus on the tools that criminals use rather than the underlying problem of why they make the choice to commit crimes in the first place.

I brought up the Norway massacre simply to prove a point. That point is that all of the restrictions and bans and waiting periods and other feel-good laws in the world are NOT going to stop a determined lunatic who has made a decision to commit mass murder.

 

[The Other Side]

The armed victim had a choice of whether to run or fight. The unarmed victim didnt.

Had I been sitting in the front row of that theater armed with my concealed handgun, there is about a 99% chance that I would be dead right now. Without a weapon...there is about a 100% chance that I would be dead right now. If its all the same to you, I'd like to at least have that 1%.

Like I said before, that 1% you speak of is simple the John Wayne Syndrome at work. While you want that 1% chance to defend yourself, what percentage is left for the people around you while the shooter is shooting at YOU?

Sober, I dont want to fight with you, I agree that we disagree, I simply can look outside the box whereas you seem to try and neatly fit inside yours. In your scenario, as you attempt to defend yourself, others may be killed who may otherwise may not have had the shooters attention until you brought it upon them.

Peace

TOS

 

[The Other Side]

150 million gun owners didnt murder anyone or commit any crimes yesterday.

You want to focus on the tools that criminals use rather than the underlying problem of why they make the choice to commit crimes in the first place.

I brought up the Norway massacre simply to prove a point. That point is that all of the restrictions and bans and waiting periods and other feel-good laws in the world are NOT going to stop a determined lunatic who has made a decision to commit mass murder.

The norway shooter wasnt a LEGAL gun owner simply shooting people. He was a terrorist with a political motive behind it. His act of terrorism was only ONE in a nation of millions who do not know the regularity of mass shootings as we do in the USA.

Norways gun restrictions has prevented them from becoming like the USA, where it is the norm for legal gun owners to go around killing large numbers of people. Our lack of restrictions on the other hand, has only gone on to make this country an UNSAFE place while walking around legal gun owners.

How about you list all the shootings in NORWAY in the last 20 years and Ill follow that up with all the shootings in the USA for the same period?

Then lets see who has the better point.

You cant compare an international act of terrorism with a legal american gun owner going on a rampage.

Peace

TOS