guns

[soberups]

You have poisoned the well so many times with your strawman arguments that it is impossible to have a rationale discussion with you..

A gun does not equal a fire extinguisher, a gun does not equal a defibrillator. A gun has one purpose, to kill. .

A fire extinguisher is an inantimate object. It is a tool that you use to potentially save a life that is threatened by fire.

A defibrillator is also an inantimate object, and it is also a tool that can be used to save a life that is threatened by a heart attack.

A gun...whether you like to admit it or not...is also an inantimate object, and it is also a tool that can be used to save a life that is being threatened by a mass murderer who has a gun of his own.

You say it has but one purpose, that being to kill. You are incorrect. In the hands of a law-abiding person who is using it to defend their life, its primary purpose is to neutralize a threat. Oftentimes this can be accomplished without even firing a shot.

We dont live in utopia. We live in a world that, unfortunately, has some pretty sick and violent people in it who have no regard for the lives of others. Sometimes, like it or not, those people have to be killed and a gun is simply the most effective tool for accomplishing that task.

 

[soberups]

. You are demanding that educators become qualified body guards. I have no doubts that some could do this easily, if they actually had time to do so. I also have no doubt that most would not want to, it is not why they chose the profession of being an educator.

No I am not.

All I am demanding...is that those teachers who wish to be given the tools and training that they need to protect their students, rather than being denied that right by cowardly politicians and school administrators.

I would never advocate requiring a teacher to be armed if they did not wish to be. That would be foolhardy and dangerous.

 

[moreluck]

Feel good story of the day.

(NBC Miami) — A father who was robbed while eating with his family took out his own gun and shot the suspect, Miami Police said.

It happened at about 1 p.m. Friday at the Burger King restaurant at Biscayne Boulevard and Northeast 17th Street, police said.

The robber walked in, flashed his gun to the family, demanded their valuables, then headed for the door, according to police.

The father, fearing for his life, took out his gun and shot the suspect in the leg as he stood outside the restaurant, police said.

The suspect, 36-year-old Travis Harris, jumped into a getaway Ford friend-150 and took off, police said.
Police said they found him and the driver, 38-year-old Ramon Smalls, a few blocks away thanks to a Good Samaritan who followed them and alerted police.

The two suspects were taken into custody at a gas station at Northeast 2nd Avenue and 26th Street after they apparently ran out of fuel, police added.

The Burger King incident followed an earlier incident in which the duo teamed up to rob a young woman of her iPhone 4S at 2200 NE 4th Ave. at about 10:15 a.m., with Smalls driving the truck as they fled, police said. Her phone was later found inside the truck, police added.

Harris was taken to Jackson Memorial Hospital’s Ryder Trauma to be treated for his gunshot wound, and faces three counts of armed robbery with a firearm, police said.

Smalls faces one count of strongarm robbery for the morning incident, and possible pending charges for the afternoon incident, police said.
​

 

[LongTimeComing]

A gun's purpose is to shoot things. The 'killing' part is a mere side effect.

It's the people that make the choice, so it's the people that need regulated. Everything that soberups has said these last dozen pages is about as clear and on-point as it gets. Any argument is reaching for straws, at best.

"Happy mediums" truly do, and can, exist. People should be able to have all the guns they want, provided they are sane, informed individuals. How we determine that is what needs to be figured out.

 

[bbsam]

Please tell me what case you base that on. I admit I am guessing your sentence, "Whatever we decide is responsible is fine with me as long as there are serious repercussions for failing to be responsible." is what you are referring to.

Fact is there have been many civil case decided in the favor of the plaintive over guns not being stored in a manner to make them un-accessible to minors. As far as the SCotUS is concerned there have been cases they decided some state laws on guns were ok and some that were not. There are currently four supreme court justices that side with the liberals regardless of what the Constitution actually says.

You have made this far too simple. You suggested that any law that made it harder to get a gun was an infringement and therefore unconstitutional. You have correctly pointed out that the SCOTUS has upheld some such laws as being constitutional. Regardless of personal viewpoints, by definition, the Supreme Court really does get to decide that. That is the rule of law.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Feel good story of the day.

(NBC Miami) — A father who was robbed while eating with his family took out his own gun and shot the suspect, Miami Police said.

It happened at about 1 p.m. Friday at the Burger King restaurant at Biscayne Boulevard and Northeast 17th Street, police said.

The robber walked in, flashed his gun to the family, demanded their valuables, then headed for the door, according to police.

The father, fearing for his life, took out his gun and shot the suspect in the leg as he stood outside the restaurant, police said.

The suspect, 36-year-old Travis Harris, jumped into a getaway Ford friend-150 and took off, police said.
Police said they found him and the driver, 38-year-old Ramon Smalls, a few blocks away thanks to a Good Samaritan who followed them and alerted police.

The two suspects were taken into custody at a gas station at Northeast 2nd Avenue and 26th Street after they apparently ran out of fuel, police added.

The Burger King incident followed an earlier incident in which the duo teamed up to rob a young woman of her iPhone 4S at 2200 NE 4th Ave. at about 10:15 a.m., with Smalls driving the truck as they fled, police said. Her phone was later found inside the truck, police added.

Harris was taken to Jackson Memorial Hospital’s Ryder Trauma to be treated for his gunshot wound, and faces three counts of armed robbery with a firearm, police said.

Smalls faces one count of strongarm robbery for the morning incident, and possible pending charges for the afternoon incident, police said.
​

At the point that the father pulled out his gun the incident was for all intents and purposes over. The thief had their valuables and was leaving the scene. It was highly unlikely that he would go back in to the restaurant. The father's first concern should have been for the safety of his family. Valuables can be replaced. What if the father had missed and thief decided to return fire? It was a poor decision on his part to pull out his gun and shoot the perp----best to gather as much information as possible and let the authorities do their jobs.

 

[moreluck]

 

[oldngray]

Feel good story of the day.

(NBC Miami) — A father who was robbed while eating with his family took out his own gun and shot the suspect, Miami Police said.

It happened at about 1 p.m. Friday at the Burger King restaurant at Biscayne Boulevard and Northeast 17th Street, police said.

The robber walked in, flashed his gun to the family, demanded their valuables, then headed for the door, according to police.

The father, fearing for his life, took out his gun and shot the suspect in the leg as he stood outside the restaurant, police said.

The suspect, 36-year-old Travis Harris, jumped into a getaway Ford friend-150 and took off, police said.
Police said they found him and the driver, 38-year-old Ramon Smalls, a few blocks away thanks to a Good Samaritan who followed them and alerted police.

The two suspects were taken into custody at a gas station at Northeast 2nd Avenue and 26th Street after they apparently ran out of fuel, police added.

The Burger King incident followed an earlier incident in which the duo teamed up to rob a young woman of her iPhone 4S at 2200 NE 4th Ave. at about 10:15 a.m., with Smalls driving the truck as they fled, police said. Her phone was later found inside the truck, police added.

Harris was taken to Jackson Memorial Hospital’s Ryder Trauma to be treated for his gunshot wound, and faces three counts of armed robbery with a firearm, police said.

Smalls faces one count of strongarm robbery for the morning incident, and possible pending charges for the afternoon incident, police said.
​

He could be in serious trouble there. Usually you have the right to defend yourself and other people but as soon as that scumbag turned and started walking away the father no longer faced a threat and its usually illegal to shoot someone just to protect property.

 

[soberups]

At the point that the father pulled out his gun the incident was for all intents and purposes over. The thief had their valuables and was leaving the scene. It was highly unlikely that he would go back in to the restaurant. The father's first concern should have been for the safety of his family. Valuables can be replaced. What if the father had missed and thief decided to return fire? It was a poor decision on his part to pull out his gun and shoot the perp----best to gather as much information as possible and let the authorities do their jobs.

If the media report is accurate, then I would have to agree. Once the criminal leaves the scene you are on real thin legal ice if you pursue him and use lethal force. In this case, I think the father could claim that he was using a reasonable amount of force to effect a citizens arrest on a violent fleeing felon. He's probably going to come out of it OK, but it really is an example of what not to do.

 

[trplnkl]

You have made this far too simple. You suggested that any law that made it harder to get a gun was an infringement and therefore unconstitutional. You have correctly pointed out that the SCOTUS has upheld some such laws as being constitutional. Regardless of personal viewpoints, by definition, the Supreme Court really does get to decide that. That is the rule of law.

Well duh Mr Obvious, yes I know the SCotUS gets the last word on Constitutionality like it or not, in fact I gave that air in my post. That really has little to do with the intent of the Bill of Rights and what is in reality, unconstitutional in regards to the intent. One doesn't have to be a scholar to understand that. But, the majority isn't always correct. I'm quite sure there have been SCotUS rulings that you disagree with.

 

[bbsam]

A handgun under the front seat?...yes, that can be responsible

Locked away at home with safety on? over responsible, if it is locked away the safety being on is moot

On your hip at all times.....can be responsible

Be careful what you deem constitutional. The second amendment is pretty straight forward unless one tries to twist it out of original meaning and in tent. Bottom line is, any law enacted that makes it harder for law abiding citizens to "keep and bare arms" is unconstitutional.

in·fringe (

n-fr

nj

)v. in·fringed, in·fring·ing, in·fring·es
v.tr.1. To transgress or exceed the limits of; violate: infringe a contract; infringe a patent.
2. Obsolete To defeat; invalidate.

v.intr. To encroach on someone or something; engage in trespassing:

Well, Trp, I thought it was obvious, but it didn't seem that you understood that since you posted the above. And then you asked me what ruling I based my assertion that the Supreme Court has upheld laws that "makes it harder for law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms". You agreed that the SCOTUS has upheld such laws and you agreed that the SCOTUS is indeed the final arbiter or constitutionality. So I think we are in agreement that whether you or I agree with any given ruling is empty opinion and makes your assertion that such laws are unconstitutional rather pointless. Again, I thought it was obvious. Wasn't sure you did.

 

[moreluck]

School: Americans Don’t Have Right to Bear Arms | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

 

[moreluck]

1 suspect arrested after stabbing attack Lone Star College campus injures 14, some critical | Fox News


So now do we turn our attention to high volume knife magazines ????

 

[DS]

Interesting little video
Canada & US - The Difference - YouTube

 

[scratch]

Did Michael Moore have his armed guards with him when he made the above video?

 

[satellitedriver]

Interesting little video

Why doesn't the fat ass move to Canada?
Simple answer, he is rich and does not want to pay the tax rate.

Is that his chin, or diseased scrotum under his lower lip?

 

[Babagounj]

Almost everything Obama says about guns is bogus. He continues to insist that 40 percent of gun sales involve no background check, despite the fact that the Washington Post has given this claim “three Pinocchios.”
He has said more than once that the Newtown, Conn., massacre victims were “gunned down by a semiautomatic weapon — by a fully automatic weapon in that case, sadly.”
No, the Newtown shooter didn’t have a machine gun (aka “automatic weapon”). In fact, as gun expert David Kopel told Congress:
“The murderer at Sandy Hook fired 150 shots over a 20-minute period, before the police arrived. In other words, a rate of fewer than eight shots per minute. This is a rate of fire far slower than the capabilities of a lever-action Henry Rifle from 1862.”
Graham: Prez massacres gun truths | Boston Herald

 

[over9five]

The president is a liar?!?!?!?!
Say it aint so!

 

[wkmac]

The Absurdity of Universal Background Checks

 

[oldngray]

Gun Manufacturer Will Leave Connecticut Over Gun Control Legislation: ‘A Call to All Involved in Our Industry to Leave This State’