Has the Teamsters sold you out?

[RockyRogue]

Rocky,

Since you said, "Never" I was simply pointing out a circumstance which happens probably at every center every week, that you certainly better not side with your boss etc...and you said you're 23, and I said I am 40, I have been at UPS almost 20yrs now, and a steward for about 18 of those years, so no offense or arrogance meant, but there aren't too many stories/situations I haven't seen, or at least nothing that would overly surprize me.

In that particular instance, no, I wouldn't side with my boss. Let me be more specific: in any ethically questionable situation, I will take the side of the truth, honesty and integrity. By the way, among my family and friends, I'm known as the most honest, straight-arrow person around. In just about every other case, I'll side with my boss. Give me some examples. I'll be glad to tell you which side I'll come down on. Private message is fine, by the way.

As far as people not showing; if the company let's them get away with it, or can't keep people, that's their fault. I have seen 2 former co-workers fired for excessive abscences and they got away with it for years, and no matter what we (as stewards) told them they continued until it was too late. When I say excessive I mean very excessive.

No, its not the company's fault, sir. At least not completely. Its a breakdown in the enforcement of the contract or a "free pass" that's gotten out of hand. I spoke to a p/t sup a few weeks ago and he said, "I've given up writing up call-ins. They reach the termination step, they get their jobs back--without exception." The attendance policy isn't unreasonable or a hardship. If it becomes a hardship, QUIT! I know people that no call/no show for days and STILL have a job! This is one of the examples I'm talking about. Its time for the union to stop fighting for these people's jobs. Once they've been warned, they've been warned! LET THEM GO!!!! Sorry for the rant, folks. Attendance is probably an issue everywhere. -Rocky

 

[Cole]

I have no tolerance myself for no call no shows, because unless your hands have been cut off one can call, and tell them something.

Maybe they got their jobs back because they were using paid sick days, personals etc...vacations, so there is nothing much to do to them. I don't know, I do know they have trouble keeping people these days.

 

[Cole]

amclaim,

The Teamsters appointed the trustees for the Union side, but they are not accountable to the members. Perhaps you should do a study of the history of CS. Also why was it primarily CS that got hit because of the stock market etc...? Why didn't Hoffa let us know there were problems with CS, when he bragged about the great increases in the "best contract ever"?

 

[RockyRogue]

Maybe they got their jobs back because they were using paid sick days, personals etc...vacations, so there is nothing much to do to them. I don't know, I do know they have trouble keeping people these days.

I can categorically state the people I'm thinking of weren't out on paid sick days, vacations, etc. They just didn't show up, call in, not a word to the sup about needing a day or two off. And they have trouble keeping people, all right. I think my hub's Twilight Sort had a turnover of over 80% last year. Preload was an ungodly number. -Rocky

 

[badpas]

This is all common knowledge and whoever you were talking about I'm sure has a better understanding of what is going on.
However, cs is a division of the teamsters and there are UPS members on the board because they have a vested interest too. This is why most of us have seen Eskew himself in a court of law testifying that upsers are only getting 40% of their pension dollars invested. And at the same time I'm not saying that UPS is perfect in anyway because we all know what they've done and could do again. But we still have some major hills to climb and correct if we're going to get ourselves out of the red and into the area where we all should be because the amount of money that the company puts in for us{because of us} is more than enough to be able to retire in half the years. And lets not forget its also the teamsters that set all the stupid rules that handcuff everyone when we finally can retire. I've seen with my own 2 eyes how cs can overload many funds so it can cause short term bennifits but in reality its just a bandade. Because all this does is bring other funds down which means thats even less the other funds could make in interest even on a good year. The point is that defending one group just because you like wearing their badge or because you are 3rd generation teamster, if they screw you long enough and maybe thats to harsh for you, change will be in their future. It would be the same for the apwa if they were doing the same thing. But for now, they are our only avenue, and if anyone who doesn't believe just go to a meeting and you'll see that the way they propose is the way it should have been in the first place. This is why the teamsters are not fighting them that much yet because all they have to do is pass out some flyers saying its not possible and its not ever going to happen and they know that there are very few people that will do anything more. This is our future we're talking about and if they don't want to fix ourselves then we'll do it ourselves. This is exactly how and why the apwa was started. This is exactly why the pilots voted out the teamsters and wouldn't have it any other way. This is why overnite/ ups freight didn't want them and if they're smart they still wouldn't want them. Lets not forget if they had been doing their job in the first place we wouldn't be having this conversation. So actually, once we vote them out we can thank them for thinking we were uneducated and not selfmotivating people who couldn't do anything without them.

 

[krash]

I can categorically state the people I'm thinking of weren't out on paid sick days, vacations, etc. They just didn't show up, call in, not a word to the sup about needing a day or two off. And they have trouble keeping people, all right. I think my hub's Twilight Sort had a turnover of over 80% last year. Preload was an ungodly number. -Rocky

Rocky,
UPS cannot keep people is why they let PTers get away with murder. The beni's are good but who wants ti be abused for 8.50/9.50 and hour. Most PTers are too young to care about health insurance and all. Plus the one's I see look like gang bangers and street punks anymore. I hope with the next contract that the pay for PTers is brought up to top pay standards so they can start finding quality dedicated individuals. During my PT years, I saw many good people leave because they got tired of waiting on that brass ring. I myself made more at a Union LTLer as a casual during those years which filled in the gap while I waited. But as someone mentioned, the PTers need to get involved an push for changes too. Also, it's not our responsibility to descipline others are point out there infractions. They have "plenty" of supervisors and managers for that.

 

[krash]

The only fuzzy math is the Teamster version. Why do we receive less than half the $214 per week that UPS contributes on our behalf? I'll bet that you will not answer this question?

Does this not also pay for your insurance?

 

[705red]

The only fuzzy math is the Teamster version. Why do we receive less than half the $214 per week that UPS contributes on our behalf? I'll bet that you will not answer this question?

If im correct its the apwa thats promising 2xs the current pension, even doing the math its (apwa) plan doesnt add up. So your claim is you receive $112 a month? $1,344 a year xs 30 years leaves you at $40,320. That doesnt add up either, stop listening to van and danny about math none of their numbers add up!

 

[Cole]

705

Welcome back bro!

Rocky, As I stated, I have no tolerance as a steward for no call no shows, and there's no defense for it. We don't hire the people, UPS does that. When someone steals, the Union didn't hire them UPS did, so it's not the unions fault the type of people hired but it is our responsibility to represent them.

 

[1eyejack]

Re: This is some great news

The Teamsters (business agents) must be worried because they are now showing up at the UPS facilities every day and passing out their propaganda. Before the APWA was around, the BA's rarely showed their face.

look up (foundationcenter-990finder) look up teamster local union no 769 the ein number is 59-1052667 mike scott ... see where the money of are local is being spent maybe they can tell us something or better yet we now know where they spend our hard membership dues on ....

 

[Bill]

If im correct its the apwa thats promising 2xs the current pension, even doing the math its (apwa) plan doesnt add up. So your claim is you receive $112 a month? $1,344 a year xs 30 years leaves you at $40,320. That doesnt add up either, stop listening to van and danny about math none of their numbers add up!

First of all, I explained that under the teamsters, we receive less than half of UPS contributions because of obligations to employees of other companies. The APWA is forming a union that represents only UPS people, thus we are credited with the full amount of $214 per week. If you calculate the pensions credits that we should have received,( but didn't under the Teamsters), for the past 30 years with the appropriate interest rates factored in, we would all have approximately $800,000 in our retirement accounts now. Now calculate the $214 per week over the next 30 years (assuming no additions per year from UPS) at a conservative interest rate of 8%, and we would all have over $1,200,000. If the Teamsters didn't mismanage our pension fund, we would all have a nice nest egg, but as it stands now, we don't have anywhere near that amount. So once again, why should we allow the Teamsters to continue to operate our funds and run it into the ground?

 

[705red]

705

Welcome back bro!

Rocky, As I stated, I have no tolerance as a steward for no call no shows, and there's no defense for it. We don't hire the people, UPS does that. When someone steals, the Union didn't hire them UPS did, so it's not the unions fault the type of people hired but it is our responsibility to represent them.

We as stewards have to take our personal feelings out of it. We are not representing the member, we are representing the contractual language agreed upon by both parties, the union and employer! I hear it all the time, why did you get his job back? How did you get it back! etc.... My response to them is those dirtbags made me a good steward by testing me in their defense, and keep me on top pf my game, so when a good employee like you gets into trouble its a piece of cake(usually). Remember we are there for the best interest of the contract and if we start giving up on the contract to assist in the cleaning house of dirt bags, what happens when that presedence is set and now they(the company) wants you for simliar offenses? I will always represent the contract to its fullest, not the employee.

 

[705red]

First of all, I explained that under the teamsters, we receive less than half of UPS contributions because of obligations to employees of other companies. The APWA is forming a union that represents only UPS people, thus we are credited with the full amount of $214 per week. If you calculate the pensions credits that we should have received,( but didn't under the Teamsters), for the past 30 years with the appropriate interest rates factored in, we would all have approximately $800,000 in our retirement accounts now. Now calculate the $214 per week over the next 30 years (assuming no additions per year from UPS) at a conservative interest rate of 8%, and we would all have over $1,200,000. If the Teamsters didn't mismanage our pension fund, we would all have a nice nest egg, but as it stands now, we don't have anywhere near that amount. So once again, why should we allow the Teamsters to continue to operate our funds and run it into the ground?

What was the exact rate of pension contributions made by ups over the last 30 years you used to get these numbers? Isnt it true that in your calculation you can not predict how well the market will perform? It seems you feel that if the apwa took over the world would be perfect, but most of us dont live in fairy tails. We have all had our ups and downs playing with the stock markets, and understand that nothing in life is guaranteed, but you apwa cheerleaders keep spining it the way you see it in an attempt to deceive the members. The fact is the only thing for sure is that van and danny will have cushy office jobs most likely in one of the ups barns representing their best interests!

 

[Cole]

As a whole we have not been vocal enough or participated enough, so some of the blame is on us for not being involved.

The Teamsters have to come up with a viable plan to save our pensions, otherwise we have no choice but to consider the APWA.

 

[raceanoncr]

As a whole we have not been vocal enough or participated enough, so some of the blame is on us for not being involved.

The Teamsters have to come up with a viable plan to save our pensions, otherwise we have no choice but to consider the APWA.

Cole, this comment, alone, is worth a bundle! Participated enough? Locally, when contract proposal meetings were held, Saturday, there were about 20 in attendance (out of about 700, FT and PT). Sunday (when I was able to attend), there were five, THAT'S 5 !!!!, and 3 were feeder drivers!

What's wrong with this picture? You wanna vote ANYTHING in? Hah! I don't doubt the validity of this intent...the APWA. I just doubt that all these on here or anywhere else will stand up and make a statement. And I include Teamsters in this too! WE JUST CAN'T GET UNITED!

Did you walk in '97? If so, how many others did, that you know of? Many of my friends here went out and got other jobs for the two weeks (which I didn't agree with). Where was their support? I walked every day and was proud and still happy that I did! But, UNITY? Uh, uh, it ain't gonna happen.

An example I refer to often here:

Many yrs ago, we had big meeting at local about jobs. The BA at the time said that it might mean working weekends (feeder jobs, mainly) if he could get more jobs, meaning loads off the train, etc. Everybody went "YEAH, WE WANT MORE JOBS, WE'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!!". You know what? Shortly afterward, a layover job came up...ON THE WEEKEND!!!! It went down to one of the lowest senior drivers on the board til it came up for bid. Nobody put their name on at bid time, so I did. All the senior drivers that were at that meeting said, "I didn't mean ME!!!!"

MY point? We all talk big on here and everywhere else but when it comes to action, we suddenly disappear! We are shooting ourselves in the foot!

OK, flames can commence.

 

[705red]

Cole, this comment, alone, is worth a bundle! Participated enough? Locally, when contract proposal meetings were held, Saturday, there were about 20 in attendance (out of about 700, FT and PT). Sunday (when I was able to attend), there were five, THAT'S 5 !!!!, and 3 were feeder drivers!

What's wrong with this picture? You wanna vote ANYTHING in? Hah! I don't doubt the validity of this intent...the APWA. I just doubt that all these on here or anywhere else will stand up and make a statement. And I include Teamsters in this too! WE JUST CAN'T GET UNITED!

Did you walk in '97? If so, how many others did, that you know of? Many of my friends here went out and got other jobs for the two weeks (which I didn't agree with). Where was their support? I walked every day and was proud and still happy that I did! But, UNITY? Uh, uh, it ain't gonna happen.

An example I refer to often here:

Many yrs ago, we had big meeting at local about jobs. The BA at the time said that it might mean working weekends (feeder jobs, mainly) if he could get more jobs, meaning loads off the train, etc. Everybody went "YEAH, WE WANT MORE JOBS, WE'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!!". You know what? Shortly afterward, a layover job came up...ON THE WEEKEND!!!! It went down to one of the lowest senior drivers on the board til it came up for bid. Nobody put their name on at bid time, so I did. All the senior drivers that were at that meeting said, "I didn't mean ME!!!!"

MY point? We all talk big on here and everywhere else but when it comes to action, we suddenly disappear! We are shooting ourselves in the foot!

OK, flames can commence.

Very well said, the majority of upsers only care about themselves.

 

[mittam]

I too walked the picket line in '97. I was proud to go out there and do it. I was there everynite. I worked 2 jobs then and left to walk the line as soon as I got off from my other job. We had 40 people or so there the first 3 or 4 nites. After that the numbers started falling. We would end up with people stopping by for 10 or 15 minutes and then leaving. We did finally have some unity but as I said it only lasted for a few days. That unity has been missing from our center for 10 years now. Till now! The people have come together here to support the APWA, and are finally together. The common goal is getting everything straightened out whether it is the teamsters doing it or through the APWA. The general feelings is that the teamsters have had more than ample time to right the ship, and now we want to go with the APWA. I do agree that the people need to get together, stay together and work together regardless of how things go. If 10 years ago we can come together even for a few days and now we can over the new union then we need to get together and stay there. That is what makes us strong, we have the ability to be a very strong group we need to do it and make it stick. I know talk is cheap but one way or another we need to get involved and stay together.

 

[705red]

I too walked the picket line in '97. I was proud to go out there and do it. I was there everynite. I worked 2 jobs then and left to walk the line as soon as I got off from my other job. We had 40 people or so there the first 3 or 4 nites. After that the numbers started falling. We would end up with people stopping by for 10 or 15 minutes and then leaving. We did finally have some unity but as I said it only lasted for a few days. That unity has been missing from our center for 10 years now. Till now! The people have come together here to support the APWA, and are finally together. The common goal is getting everything straightened out whether it is the teamsters doing it or through the APWA. The general feelings is that the teamsters have had more than ample time to right the ship, and now we want to go with the APWA. I do agree that the people need to get together, stay together and work together regardless of how things go. If 10 years ago we can come together even for a few days and now we can over the new union then we need to get together and stay there. That is what makes us strong, we have the ability to be a very strong group we need to do it and make it stick. I know talk is cheap but one way or another we need to get involved and stay together.

I to walked that line in 97 and have made life long friends from other areas of the teamsters and almost every other union in the chicago area. We the upsers were on strike but would not have won the strike without the outpouring of support we received from all unions, have we forgot that? Thats just one reason we cant turn our back on other teamsters or union affiliated brothers or sisters. I only wish i could bottle up that feeling of brotherhood that i felt over those 19 days, i was proud to be a striking ups teamster, and til this day i stop at every picket line i see with pop, coffee, food, whatever they need.

 

[RockyRogue]

til this day i stop at every picket line i see with pop, coffee, food, whatever they need.

Never had to decide if I should cross a picket line, 705. My hope is I never will! Those Teamsters in Chicago probably remember the Ameritech strike a couple years ago. I was driving to school early one morning, and these people were settling in for their daily picket activities when I beeped the horn. First day, they were surprised. Second day, I got a smile. The office was in an upper-middle class neighborhood of predominantly Republican voters. They'd expected boos and fingers but they got a horn beep. I found out that day and the days following its the little things that mean the most on the picket line. -Rocky

 

[Cole]

Race I was Picketline captain, and stayed there almost around the clock. People pretty much had to make me go rest. Not trying to honk my own horn here just stating facts. I was with it and for it!

Some people got jobs, alot of them did walk the line though. I will say for a short while on Sunday a couple of days before it ended, or maybe the day before, memories a bit foggy, I was alone on the line, and I goota say, I was dialing numbers at record speed, as I was sure a red laser light from a rifle was going to be pointing at me, or an angry customer was going to.

I know what you mean be the lack of unity, but our union should stop playing on the fact that they are long at home, when we get off, and do what we pay them to do, or you get competition from another Union etc...