Has the Teamsters sold you out?

705red

Browncafe Steward
Part-timers sold out,
Are you a red circled part-timer? Hired before 1982 having a lucrative wage compensation package. Are you a blue circled PTer? This is the next step down people hired between 1983 and 1997. Paid better than next 2 lower levels but not same as red circled people. Are you green circled? Part-timers 3rd tier of pay hired in from Aug. 1st 1997 to July 31st 2002. Still lower than 1st 2 tiers but better than the last tier. Green tier people still get the $1.20 this August 1st as the 2 tiers above.
Now finally are you black tier? This is the lowest pay scale at UPS and you hire in $8.50 to $9.50 depending on location and job. You will get 50 cents raise after 90 days and then 50 cents every year on you anniversary date. No way is this close to the tier right above you let alone the 2 above that. The red circle people with the next raise will be over $25.00 an hour compared to your $9.50 an hour. Did the teamsters sell you out? Part-timers take notice, make up your own minds!
How many new 22.3 combo jobs did the teamsters win for partimers since the strike year of 1997? Do you know that ups is willing to give $11 and $12 bucks an hour to all new partimers? If they give up their medical for the first 2 years of employment! Come on mittam you know the fulltimers assisted in selling out the partimers during contracts. How many parttimers do you talk to a day now? I speak to everyone i see because i will not forget where i came from!
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Sounds like krash is a teamster offical
Brother krash is a feeder driver and not a teamster official. He is also a stand up individual if you were wondering. He has not told any lies on here and only asks for proff of these false accusations that the apwa throw around.
 

mittam

Well-Known Member
How many new 22.3 combo jobs did the teamsters win for partimers since the strike year of 1997? Do you know that ups is willing to give $11 and $12 bucks an hour to all new partimers? If they give up their medical for the first 2 years of employment! Come on mittam you know the fulltimers assisted in selling out the partimers during contracts. How many parttimers do you talk to a day now? I speak to everyone i see because i will not forget where i came from!
I know of only one part-timer that got a 22.3 job, one that nobody else full-time bid on. We have more 22.3 jobs in our building that went to drivers and only about half of them got replaced so the part-timers still didn,t get more full-time positions. Then 2 outside drivers were hired since they can go outside to hire 1 for every 5 inside. The drivers going to 22.3 were considered inside and 2 were replaced by outside people. Fulltimers selling out that happened in our local in 97, I was pt then and when we went to union hall for the conference call with Carey I tried to ask a question and was told to sit down and bottom line they said what the ft got would roll down hill to the pt people. I know that is just my experience but that left a sour feeling to me. Obviously what rolled down didn't help the part-timer too well. It's just my feeling that these people work hard in poor conditions we should not make them an exception to the good pay and benefits everyone else at UPS gets
 

mittam

Well-Known Member
This is just my building I know it is different every where we need to get on one page and make things happen across the country the same way
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I know of only one part-timer that got a 22.3 job, one that nobody else full-time bid on. We have more 22.3 jobs in our building that went to drivers and only about half of them got replaced so the part-timers still didn,t get more full-time positions. Then 2 outside drivers were hired since they can go outside to hire 1 for every 5 inside. The drivers going to 22.3 were considered inside and 2 were replaced by outside people. Fulltimers selling out that happened in our local in 97, I was pt then and when we went to union hall for the conference call with Carey I tried to ask a question and was told to sit down and bottom line they said what the ft got would roll down hill to the pt people. I know that is just my experience but that left a sour feeling to me. Obviously what rolled down didn't help the part-timer too well. It's just my feeling that these people work hard in poor conditions we should not make them an exception to the good pay and benefits everyone else at UPS gets
We have yet to have a fulltimer bid on a 22.3 job. He have had sevsral thousand created in chicago, mainly because of cach over 6000 teamsters at that one building.
 

mittam

Well-Known Member
That's what I mean Red it's different everywhere I have talked to guys at other buildings some are the same as you guys up there and some are like our building, I think we all need to get on the same page
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
That's what I mean Red it's different everywhere I have talked to guys at other buildings some are the same as you guys up there and some are like our building, I think we all need to get on the same page
Theres several different contracts out there, all with different language. In 710 on an 8 hour request day you can bring the work back at 8 hours, but they also have to have the grievant file a grievance for himself, while we at 705 cant bring the work back, but can union file grievances for any infractions. I agree but in order to do that alot of contracts will lose key language.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Do you know that ups is willing to give $11 and $12 bucks an hour to all new partimers? If they give up their medical for the first 2 years of employment!

Interesting idea, Red. I came back to UPS solely because of the health insurance. In the last few weeks, its become crystal clear my UPS career will end by mid-September 2007 (classes restart). The hub I work out of is just too far from home to take the bus to and from everyday. In fact, if I can find a job this summer, I'll leave. I just can't do a 30 mile roundtrip commute on mass trans for $10/hr :crying::crying:. -Rocky
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Interesting idea, Red. I came back to UPS solely because of the health insurance. In the last few weeks, its become crystal clear my UPS career will end by mid-September 2007 (classes restart). The hub I work out of is just too far from home to take the bus to and from everyday. In fact, if I can find a job this summer, I'll leave. I just can't do a 30 mile roundtrip commute on mass trans for $10/hr :crying::crying:. -Rocky
Say you work 4 hours at $2.50 more anh hour ($11) thats $10 more a day, $50 more a week $200 a month! How much will health care cost you per month on your own? Depending on what part of the country you live in $500 to $1500 a month.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Say you work 4 hours at $2.50 more anh hour ($11) thats $10 more a day, $50 more a week $200 a month! How much will health care cost you per month on your own? Depending on what part of the country you live in $500 to $1500 a month.

Sorry, Red, but I'm not up on healthcare costs. I should be but I'm not. However, the $$$ looks good, I won't dispute that. For the young, still-living-with-Mom and Dad-type, this would be ideal. That's the group UPS probably mostly draws from. I'm probably more of an exception to the rule since I'm a grad student and need the health insurance UPS is offering. Most of these kids probably don't need it. I'll be 100% honest, I'd need some serious persuasion not to take that offer if I was in these young kid's position. If I'm not mistaken, two years is about right in Chicago for union retail workers. Next time you're in your local Jewel, ask your cashier how long it takes to get health insurance. I'll bet its close to 2 years. -Rocky
 
Say you work 4 hours at $2.50 more anh hour ($11) thats $10 more a day, $50 more a week $200 a month! How much will health care cost you per month on your own? Depending on what part of the country you live in $500 to $1500 a month.

Many of the part-timers are students that can still receive coverage from their parents plans as long as they remain classified as a full-time student and are under a certain age ( I think it's normally 22, but I'm not positive ). For some of them, it might actually work out to be beneficial...
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Many of the part-timers are students that can still receive coverage from their parents plans as long as they remain classified as a full-time student and are under a certain age ( I think it's normally 22, but I'm not positive ). For some of them, it might actually work out to be beneficial...

Its actually 23. In fact, its 25 if the student is still receiving X amount of support from parents. I could be wrong about that but that's what a UPS health insurance booklet told me. Not sure if the age is decided by the state, federal government or insurance industry. I was in the position of health insurance through an employer or paying for it through my school. This is why I'm with UPS now. -Rocky
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Many of the part-timers are students that can still receive coverage from their parents plans as long as they remain classified as a full-time student and are under a certain age ( I think it's normally 22, but I'm not positive ). For some of them, it might actually work out to be beneficial...
Your right it will work out for some of them, and thats the hard part of dealing with a contract, some will take and some will say you sold them out! Its a tough position to be in you must decide how many will benefit and how many need the benefits, thats looking into the future to seeing these employees arent even working yet. I started with ups for the benefits only and now im a lifer.
 

paganpink

Well-Known Member
Reading some of these comments is like being in an alternate universe!It's as if the Teamsters haven't beeen caught repeatedly with their hands in the cookie jar time after time. From illegal loans to organized crime figures in Las Vegas in the fifties, to hundreds of millions of dollars simply disappearing to Democratic candidates, Teamster leader pockets, or with no explanation for the last half century, the dishonesty finally culminated about ten years ago in the government being forced to use the RICO ( Racketeering Influenced Corruption Act, usually used for organized crime) act to completely take over the utterly corrupt Teamsters Union after decades of abuse. Most of the stolen money was from the Teamsters pension plans being used as a "slush fund" at the whim of Teamster presidents. Reading this debate you would think they don't cover history in the schools any more, much less labor union history. If I recall correctly something like seven of the last eight Teamster presidents before Carey went to prison for just such theft, and there have been hundreds of other cases of corruption at the local Teamster level. Ron Carey was somehow able to wiggle out of the charges using good laywers in a sympathetic venue , but was nonetheless banned from the Teamsters for life, of course. His strike resulted in a package with no more compensation total money than had been offered before it, yet cost UPS billions of dollars and reduced the number of Teamsters jobs (from the largest and only small package Teamster employer left in the country) for years afterwards right in the midst of a 25 year decliine in Teamster membership. Now, UPS has offered to take over the Central States fund at a cost in the billions of dollars which would result in not only every penny going solely to UPS people, but would ensure that the pension plan is fully funded just as their non-union plan is. UPS offered the same thing during the last contract as well, but the union sold the less than 1% of members showing up on one particularly well orchestrated weekend meeting that the "evil" UPS wanted to take their money and then asked for a strike vote. It passed because many of the members present thought it was simply a motion to petition UPS from a stronger position, but more importantly took away for the first time the right to vote by the rank and file on what was offered, something the vast majority of workers would never have agreed to. One other thing to note is that UPS uses about 1% of their funds to administer the pension program while the Teamsters take around 3-5% to do the very same thing. friend.Y.I. for all those "doubting Thomas'"; Of the 50 largest trucking firms open in 1979 only five still exist. The multi employer funds are dead meat. Run, don't walk, to vote Yes if UPS can be convinced to buy out the monstrosity that the C.S. pension plan has become where neither the Teamsters nor the Government wants anything to do with it or has a solution to make it solvent. Ironically, If UPS does take it over than federal law now requires all corporations to keep it fully funded, but unions are still exempt from that law due to their succesfull lobbying efforts (for obvious reasons!!) to keep them from meeting the same standard. The very entity who bankrupted it, and has never contributed a dime to it, can continue to amass obligations which it cannot pay EVEN after cutting promised benefit levels. But they still want to control it? Give me a break.
 

Chnandler Bong

Well-Known Member
Mine was 2 years also, but after getting to full pay I said something to a senior driver and his reply was I am lucky it took him 4 years. So it must have changed along the lines. Now we have people saying wow we have to go 2 1/2 years instead of 2. I do know different riders for different areas also applies.


I don't think your buddy was referring to his progression. More likely he was referring to the time it took him to gain seniority. Big difference.
 

Braveheart

Well-Known Member
It is the Teamsters that sold the part timers out, not the full timers. They are the ones that negotiated the contract, not the workers. Maybe in the conference you fall under, the wait is two and a half years, but where I am from in CS, the wait is four years.
We had a 2 year progression until hoffa gave them the 2 and 1/2 year wait in this contract! I did hear it used to be 6 months many many moons ago. I started over 16 years ago at $8 an hour so where did the $14-$15 wage come from? I am wondering if they gave them a longer wait this time too just like the sick days they gave away from the part timers in this contract!!!!!! I still support the union just not hoffa!!!!!!!
 

Braveheart

Well-Known Member
The Teamsters have been selling us out for years. Here are just a few examples.

1. Fact. In 1985, part time employees were earning $14-15 per hour. Twenty years later, 2007, part timers are now earning $8-9 per hour. Does this make any sense that 22 years later, the cost of living has gone way up, but the salaries have dropped. The Teamsters negotiated these concessions to UPS.

Not quite a fact. P/t starting wage back then was 8 dollars an hour to start. The unique feature of that contract was a 3 month progression up to 12 bucks an hour as a a result of the 1982 contract. That wage rate then because red circle and would not increase other then the standard yearly raises.

A part timer making 15 bucks an hour in 1985 would have to have had at least 6 to 7 years of yearly increases in addition to being red circle wage rate.

Todays part time wage rate starts at 8.50 an hour and 9 preload but increases each year. Therefore a blanket statement that thier wage rate is 8 to 9 is incorrect since the average p/t wage rate in any hub is probably closer to 12 to 13 dollars an hour.

If you then take the combo job which is supposed to combine two part time jobs then your part time wage rate would go up substantially.
Most info correct except average pt wage. Most of our pters quit very early on so the average in our area is about $10-$11 an hour at best
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
It is the Teamsters that sold the part timers out, not the full timers. They are the ones that negotiated the contract, not the workers. Maybe in the conference you fall under, the wait is two and a half years, but where I am from in CS, the wait is four years.

Engineer,
You are misrepresenting previous contracts with only partial information. Everything is negotiated there are been many work rule and flexibility item changes in favor of the employees and additional time off, sick day adjustments. Vacation and seniority rules. Every one of these issues has economic consequences. It depends on what is important to both sides how these issues are negotiated.
 

Fredless

APWA Hater
Mittam - you must be in the southern region. I can only think of 3 or 4 part timers that went from p/t to 22.3. What happens in my hub is that high senior drivers won't take those 22.3 jobs because its such a big pay cut, so VERY junior drivers that haven't reached top out yet snatch them up.

The company will hire to the outside or go off the pool bid. Not everyone CAN or WANTS to be a friend/t driver first! The southern region sucks for 22.3 job selection, its clearly part time language and I don't think the friend/t drivers should have FIRST dibs on those combo jobs! Thats what feeders are for if they want out.

Now, if only I could get enough part timers to actually DO something about it, versus just bitch (which is why the part timers get sent down the river) we'd control this damn union. The full timers didn't sell anyone out, they simply give a rats ass about the union in greater numbers than the part timers and take an active role. The part timers hang themselves.
 
Top