I drink your milkshake! a metaphor for capitalism

rickyb

Well-Known Member
tokyo population only 14 million, vancouver's 2.6

1691631936868.png
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
No he didn't.
In other words, Aristotle felt that if you have extremes of poor and rich, you can’t talk seriously about democracy. Any true democracy has to be what we call today a welfare state — actually, an extreme form of one, far beyond anything envisioned in this century.


(When I pointed this out at a press conference in Majorca, the headlines in the Spanish papers read something like, If Aristotle were alive today, he’d be denounced as a dangerous radical. That’s probably true.)


The idea that great wealth and democracy can’t exist side by side runs right up through the Enlightenment and classical liberalism, including major figures like de Tocqueville, Adam Smith, Jefferson and others. It was more or less assumed.


Aristotle also made the point that if you have, in a perfect democracy, a small number of very rich people and a large number of very poor people, the poor will use their democratic rights to take property away from the rich. Aristotle regarded that as unjust, and proposed two possible solutions: reducing poverty (which is what he recommended) or reducing democracy.

 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
In other words, Aristotle felt that if you have extremes of poor and rich, you can’t talk seriously about democracy. Any true democracy has to be what we call today a welfare state — actually, an extreme form of one, far beyond anything envisioned in this century.


(When I pointed this out at a press conference in Majorca, the headlines in the Spanish papers read something like, If Aristotle were alive today, he’d be denounced as a dangerous radical. That’s probably true.)


The idea that great wealth and democracy can’t exist side by side runs right up through the Enlightenment and classical liberalism, including major figures like de Tocqueville, Adam Smith, Jefferson and others. It was more or less assumed.


Aristotle also made the point that if you have, in a perfect democracy, a small number of very rich people and a large number of very poor people, the poor will use their democratic rights to take property away from the rich. Aristotle regarded that as unjust, and proposed two possible solutions: reducing poverty (which is what he recommended) or reducing democracy.

chomsky talks about some of hte founding fathers being anti capitalist too

So he designed a system that made sure democracy couldn’t function. He placed power in the hands of the "more capable set of men," those who hold "the wealth of the nation." Other citizens were to be marginalized and factionalized in various ways, which have taken a variety of forms over the years: fractured political constituencies, barriers against unified working-class action and cooperation, exploitation of ethnic and racial conflicts, etc.

(To be fair, Madison was precapitalist and his "more capable set of men" were supposed to be "enlightened statesmen" and "benevolent philosophers," not investors and corporate executives trying to maximize their own wealth regardless of the effect that has on other people. When Alexander Hamilton and his followers began to turn the US into a capitalist state, Madison was pretty appalled. In my opinion, he’d be an anticapitalist if he were alive today — as would Jefferson and Adam Smith.)
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
chomsky talks about some of hte founding fathers being anti capitalist too

So he designed a system that made sure democracy couldn’t function. He placed power in the hands of the "more capable set of men," those who hold "the wealth of the nation." Other citizens were to be marginalized and factionalized in various ways, which have taken a variety of forms over the years: fractured political constituencies, barriers against unified working-class action and cooperation, exploitation of ethnic and racial conflicts, etc.

(To be fair, Madison was precapitalist and his "more capable set of men" were supposed to be "enlightened statesmen" and "benevolent philosophers," not investors and corporate executives trying to maximize their own wealth regardless of the effect that has on other people. When Alexander Hamilton and his followers began to turn the US into a capitalist state, Madison was pretty appalled. In my opinion, he’d be an anticapitalist if he were alive today — as would Jefferson and Adam Smith.)
So we're supposed to play what ifs. You're right, it was before capitalism as well as Marxism.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Both are really expensive but Vancouver is super expensive primarily due to Hong Kong Chinese buying property there.
according to numbeo it is more expensive to rent in abbotsford which is a whopping 1 hour 10 minute drive from DT vancouver vs tokyo. again hte population is 2 and a half million vs tokyo area of 37 million

1691769594969.png
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
according to numbeo it is more expensive to rent in abbotsford which is a whopping 1 hour 10 minute drive from DT vancouver vs tokyo. again hte population is 2 and a half million vs tokyo area of 37 million

View attachment 441903
So don't move to Vancouver. Problem solved. We're likely to see a worldwide crash in the next year. Those prices may not come down much there, but should come down.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
in this post i dive into madison's logic. so basically he :censored2:ed up because after capitalism things didnt work out like he planned
What did he plan? To have the power in the hands of the wealthy landowners? You can't compare today with his time. Totally different world. All they could do is give us a framework to guide us. They did pretty good with that.
 
Top