Is anyone following Wisconsin?

[Catatonic]

I thought I heard that the Dick Morris's poll is only like 550 people......(Laura Ingram said) such a small number!!

550 people will typically get the poll within a +/- 3% margin of error. Of course, that is if it is properly worded and the sampling is truly random.

 

[moreluck]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...overnor_in_wisconsin_spat_38_side_with_unions

 

[804brown]

Brings us to the present major problems : Stimulous was used to pay back public sector union to keep state employees working. Because this money would eventually run out (it has) the U.S. is in major debt ,little to no jobs were created in the private sector which would have generated tax revenues in the states to keep the public sector running. Now what ???

Some people on this thread have no clue that it is private sector jobs --like you have at UPS --that makes the engine run.
States and politicians MUST create a business growing climate to get out of this mess.
Many jobs have left states and even the country because of the mentality that taxing them up to their necks is the answer.

First reaction of the real kool aid people will be --screw them, raise their taxes, they are rich,make them pay for it, redistribute -la-la-la ---the day will come when there will be very little left to "redistribute" Tell me one country where socialism has worked.
You want to condemn Big business and capitalism but just like gasoline --there are no VIABLE alternatives.
Obama promised us that under his Presidency energy prices would skyrocket to force us into alternatives.
He kept his promise --look at fuel today--(one minor problem viable alternatives still do not exist) also look at the rising prices of food,no jobs,unions protesting in the streets etc etc.
Stimulous money has run out --Job creation in the Private sector is the ONLY solution. Time for all of us to wake up !!

No, the government stimulus was used because private investment and spending dried up. We did what any government has done since the New Deal , we primed the pump with government spending which for every $1 spent generates $2 in economic growth. That is Keynsian Economics (not Marxist economics). Granted the $778 Billion was not enough to make up for the loss of $2 TRILLION of those 2 years. But it did create about 3 million jobs and saved millions more in the public sector. Now ,Obama did this to prevent the states from laying off more state workers at a time when unemployment was already 10% ! This was no political pay off. This was what every governor, repub and dem, was asking for so they didn't have tolay off teachers and cops, etc.

Listen, your precious "private" sector was on its back. Giving them more tax cuts would have done what?? Even with a new big fat tax cut, businesses won't hire workers unless there are customers to buy what those workers produce. It is government's obligation to be the spender of last resort!

Pure socialism doesn't work and pure capitalism doesn't work either. Everytime Big Business goes over the cliff, government is right there to bail them out. As for the rest of us, the little guy/gal, we are all on our own. We get the harshness of capitalism while the big guys get corporate socialism for the rich and connected. Why don't these socalled "free market" devotees try to make it without bailouts and tax subsidies at the local , state and federal level. This just proves that they are not against big government;they love it when it helps them out . They are just against big government for the middle and working class folk! I'd like to know how much exactly UPS gets subisdized every year by big government. Or Fedex. Or any large profitable corporation. Welfare queens indeed!

 

[island1fox]

Senators or Representatives going into hiding is nothing new, this happened in Texas a few years ago to protest redistricting. There it was the Republicans who fled the capitol because they feared the redistricting would reduce their numbers.

Are you re-writing history ????

 

[island1fox]

In 2003 the Texas Democrats fled the state to ok !!!!

 

[island1fox]

I just spoke to a citizen of Wisconsin. He claims that one of the Democrat runaway Senators must appear in court next week to face sexual assault charges .
Can anyone from Wisconsin deny or confirm ???
If it is true the vote will take place next week and it is as they a done deal !!

 

[804brown]

Prove it The Tea Party is A Grassroots movement, When the government cut's Taxes revenue to the Government goes up it's called Economics 101! Ok so bush caused 2.5 trillion Debt then what do U say about Obama causing 14 trillion debt??Do u know the Military is the smallest on the budget? SS Medi care and medi caid are 3 biggest of the budget!!!!!!! why they should be abolished! I agree to bring the troop's back but re ploy them to the southern border to stop the invasion!And guess what If we didn't have any wealthy people is this country we would be a third world country,whether you know it or not Rich people supply job's, also they buy expensive thing's which help with tax's.

LOL, the emtea party is not grassroots. It was created by Dick Armey (not a pun) former Repub majority leader in the House in the 1990s and funded by "Americans for Prosperity" a huge group of corporations that funnell corporate $$ to this astro turf group of wing nuts. Look it up for yourself!

As for the warped logic of cutting taxes and having tax revenue go up, "voo doo economics" doesnt work as george bush sr once remarked about supplyside economics. Reagan's own budget director David Stockman admitted that supplyside doesnt work too. He knew it was just a way of defunding government, by creating huge deficits that would force the government to cut spending drastically. As we know now, that never happened.

On the debt, yes Bush caused over $2 trillion in more debt just with the taxcuts and wars and that was after being handed a suplus by Clinton in 2001. Obama didnt cause the $14 trillion national debt. That is the national debt of all deficits added up over 230 yrs or so.

The military is the smallest of the budget?? really?? The U.S. federal budget is about $3 trillion this year. About $1 Trillion is spent directly on military (procurement, construction, rserach and development,familiy housing, retirement pay, nuclear weapons, homeland security, as well as the global war on terror($240 Billion ) very year . You could add another $100 Billion a year for vets benefits, the Intel agencies ($60 Billion) and lets not forget the interest on the debt we pay very year (billions)! So we are talking honestly about 40%-50% of the total budget! Smallest??Hmmm

As for the "troops " overseas, why are we still sustaining 800 military bases throughtout the world. And such a huge Navy , seen the "soviets" lately??

"If we didn't have any wealthy people in this country", we would have way less poor people and way more middle income people. Lets experiment with that one day!!

 

[804brown]

In 2003 the Texas Democrats fled the state to ok !!!!

You are correct it was the Dems who fled. They fled because the Repubs had just taken back the Texas legislature and planned on doing a redistricting plan in 2003-2004 when they were only supposed to redistrict every 10 years and they had did their redistricting in 2000 already!!
Oh by the way that plan was put in place by Tom Delay the disgraced former House Repub majority leader who was found guilty of laundering corporate $$ to Texas pols in 2002 elections for said Texas repub legislators.

 

[BrownArmy]

Of course the Government spent more cause when the Government Lowers tax's more revenue comes into the Government, hence economics 101 have you taken and Economics course?

I think what you're saying here is: "Of course the Government spending (during the Reagan administration) was greater, since when the Government lowers taxes, more revenue comes into the Government".

This simply doesn't make a lick of sense.

If you would care to explain this further, using complete sentences and approximate grammar, I would love to hear what you have to say.

 

[Babagounj]

gov't lowers taxes = more spendable income for more people.

 

[menotyou]

That snake of a governor should be repealed.

 

[bbsam]

In 2003 the Texas Democrats fled the state to ok !!!!

Although you may not like the fact, it is a power for the minority to wield. John Kasich is on record as record as supporting the right of the minority to do so. Not much different than the Senate attempting to block the Obama agenda for two years. It's reported that Abraham Lincoln jumped out of a window to prevent a quorum and stall a vote.

 

[island1fox]

Although you may not like the fact, it is a power for the minority to wield. John Kasich is on record as record as supporting the right of the minority to do so. Not much different than the Senate attempting to block the Obama agenda for two years. It's reported that Abraham Lincoln jumped out of a window to prevent a quorum and stall a vote.

bbsam,
You can give yours and other peoples OPINIONS all you want --If you read the post I was responding to --he was re-writing history--claiming the Rupublicans left the state. Not so --just a statement of fact !!

 

[bbsam]

bbsam,
You can give yours and other peoples OPINIONS all you want --If you read the post I was responding to --he was re-writing history--claiming the Rupublicans left the state. Not so --just a statement of fact !!

Sorry if I offended. I actually was only using your post as a jumping off point in suggesting that the powers wielded by the minority party in America are real and formidable as well as historically based. Therefore when some claim that "elections have consequences", that cuts both ways and the majority does not enjoy "majority rule".

 

[island1fox]

I think what you're saying here is: "Of course the Government spending (during the Reagan administration) was greater, since when the Government lowers taxes, more revenue comes into the Government".

This simply doesn't make a lick of sense.

If you would care to explain this further, using complete sentences and approximate grammar, I would love to hear what you have to say.

Brown army,
I believe I can shed some light on this for you. Through out our history even under JFK when taxes are LOWERED for all, jobs are created, the people that pay tax --not the 40% and growing takers --have more SPENDABLE income that is not given to special interests groups on either side but spent throughout the economy.
Perfect example --read and absorb-try to have a non -partisan position.
The recent trillion dollar stimulous plan. The politicians raved about 'SHOVEL READY" jobs and how the unemployment would stay below 8%. Millions of jobs were to be created or saved.
Two years later with unemployment at 10% our elected leader tell us there were NO SHOVEL ready jobs ????
Billions spent --unemployment up --where did the money joe B was doling out go ???
To public sector union jobs that are paid for BY PRIVATE sector people. The money was also doled out to liberal special interests such as tree huggers,arts and sciences.
The Private sector including the US chamber of commerce had OBAMA'S boot on their throats --never putting together a national budget, spending money and borrowing from China, telling business that taxes would go up and slamming in Obama care which would drive costs through the roof !!!! notice all the unions now begging for a dispensation from Obama care --LOWERING COST -please.

I can also tell you how common sense would have ended this situation.
One do not push a huge thousands of page law that nobody knew what was in it--another entitlement --during a major recession --Obama should have been working on JOBS DAY 1--but obviously while he speaks well --he is incompetant as a leader.
Two the stimulous one trillion dollars equals the amount of federal income tax witholding from our paychecks. The government should have told the American people --all of us --liberal, conservative , independent--for one year --no federal income tax will be with held. But you must use this extra spendable income to stimulate the economy.
Go to malls,restaurants,use contractors, etc,etc .
At the end of the year whatever you would have paid in tax you must have receipts that show in fact the money was spent.
NO special interests groups would have been involved, jobs would have been created in the PRIVATE SECTOR, even parcel delivery volumes would have skyrocketed !!!
The new created Private sector jobs would now create the WEALTH -from which the public sector is kept alive .. surely makes a little sense to anyone not so "dug in" to any ideology.

 

[island1fox]

bbsam,
Sorry for snapping back --I know we disagree on a lot of areas but I know you to be respectful.
Tensions are getting very high in the country lets hope in the end cooler heads will prevail and we will somehow find our way out of this mess together.

P.S.
The Republican's did not shut down the Government when OBAMA care was rammed through with a Christmas eve vote.
They waited for the next election --and the people spoke.
Wisconsin Democrats should do the same --elections are elections. If the Republicans 'OVER-REACH ' like Obama has --let the people correct in the next election.

 

[hubrat]

Wisconsin Democrats should do the same --elections are elections. If the Republicans 'OVER-REACH ' like Obama has --let the people correct in the next election.

Wisconsin Republicans should not REFUSE to hear the voice of ALL the people, as Gov. Scott Walker has done publicly on numerous occasions. The Democratic minority is using the only option left to them in hopes of allowing their constituents be heard.

 

[island1fox]

Wisconsin Republicans should not REFUSE to hear the voice of ALL the people, as Gov. Scott Walker has done publicly on numerous occasions. The Democratic minority is using the only option left to them in hopes of allowing their constituents be heard.

hubrat,
I want to be kind, not insulting towards you. Your one sided blind vision is truly sad.

On a National level when the Dems controlled everything many things were 'RAMMED' THROUGH without listening to the people or various national polls -in particular Obama care.

In Wisconsin the voters spoke. CUT SPENDING DO NOT RAISE OUR TAXES.
There have been hours and days of debate of only a few hundred page bill --not thousands of pages like obama care----Time for a VOTE.
The majority after debate has that right !! Left or right. Anyone one to leave any state ---Republican or Democrat should be despised and removed from office. In Wisconsin everyone knows the bill, everyone in the nation knows the debate --some agree some disagree-- Time for the VOTE by the elected politicians of the great state of Wisconsin !!!
The Democrats lost the election --time to move on !!

 

[hubrat]

hubrat,
I want to be kind, not insulting towards you. Your one sided blind vision is truly sad.

On a National level when the Dems controlled everything many things were 'RAMMED' THROUGH without listening to the people or various national polls -in particular Obama care.

In Wisconsin the voters spoke. CUT SPENDING DO NOT RAISE OUR TAXES.
There have been hours and days of debate of only a few hundred page bill --not thousands of pages like obama care----Time for a VOTE.
The majority after debate has that right !! Left or right. Anyone one to leave any state ---Republican or Democrat should be despised and removed from office. In Wisconsin everyone knows the bill, everyone in the nation knows the debate --some agree some disagree-- Time for the VOTE by the elected politicians of the great state of Wisconsin !!!
The Democrats lost the election --time to move on !!

Union members in WI agreed to cuts, not strong-arm removal of their RIGHTS.

IMO we "liberals" have been listening to the same old story for a few hundred years. Things change and when people don't learn to cope in a functional manner with those changes, their institutions erode.

Don't bother starting to be kind to me. Your closed mind is truly frightening.

 

[804brown]

gov't lowers taxes = more spendable income for more people.

Lower taxes on the working and middle class and they will spend it. Give a huge tax cut to the already wealthy and they save it.