trickpony1
Well-Known Member
Having a degree is an arbitrary and capricious requirement for management. We had a district manager that didn't have a degree but she had other assets. We've had people in management that had degrees in art and music so how is that relevant to our operation?
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C
CanSore
Guest
A college degree is not without merit. If you finished high school and proceeded no further, you cannot know the critical thinking skills one must develop to complete college. You also may not have experienced the life-skills needed to survive within a diverse group.
College is not everything, but it is another part of one's intellectual growth. Whether it be Art or Medicine, college exposes you to things that you didn't see in high school. It may be in the form of a sociology teacher forcing you see family, race, or sex in a different way. It may force you to mingle and learn from other races that you didn't experience in your home town.
To downplay college is no different than downplaying the value of drivers without education. You are an
if you cannot appreciate the value of each other's experience.When I went to college I met foreign students who shared their experiences at home and in America. I was forced to complete tasks without Mom and Dad. I was forced to spend money and be held accountable(most college students don't spend money well). I learned to think for myself. I learned to research my opinions, and sometimes reject my long-held misguided opinions.
I was in the military as well. I learned more about dealing and finding something to respect about minorities. Something I didn't know while growing up in an affluent white area. I learned coping skills, teamwork and having pride in my accomplishments.
At UPS, I learned that all my college experiences helped me. I also noticed that while those without college could be good workers, they were often stunted by their limited educational experiences. It doesn't mean anyone without a college degree cannot be brilliant. Brilliance is something you have. Education is something you learn.
I have met brilliant people who would have been unstoppable if they had more education to marry to their god-given intelligence.
To suggest that a person who spent 4 or more years studying art, science, math, or english wasted their time on an irrelevant path is plainly just showing your own need for education.
Almost no position at UPS is paid fairly -- barring, perhaps, PT hourly in the centers or hub. These guys work the hardest (for the hours present) and make the least. The rest of us are all overpaid. Drivers especially, but management as well -- upper management the most.
There is a complete denial on this board when it comes to drivers owning up to the fact that they are simply drivers. Yeah, it takes skill and physical and mental ability. But, heck, it ain't rocket science. If it was so hard, how come it only take senority in the centers and hubs to get there. As I've noticed, it only takes the union to stay. There are a few awful drivers in every center I've visited. Those drivers bring down all of you. The union protects those and thus reduces all of you to the lowest common denominator. I would be mad if I were a good and thoughtful driver who had to endure the mindless few among you.
There are a bunch of duds in management too. I have to endure those. Luckily, those usually never rise above on-car. Unfortunately, they just plague you guys.
I would like for someone on this board to show me another driving job in america that makes as much as a UPS driver. The trucks are free, so are the uniforms, gas, oil, carwash, etc. You are really lucky people.
I think we are all tired of hearing that you deserve your money. No one deserves anything at UPS. You have to earn your keep, even if we earn more than we should.
Just because UPS makes so much money doesn't mean we have to spend it all on overpriced drivers and management.
FedEx and DHL are giving UPS a run for their money. I suspect without a labor union crisis at either of those places, we won't be competitive in the years to come. I hope I am wrong because I play to get a retirement from UPS.
I would like for someone on this board to show me another driving job in america that makes as much as a UPS driver. The trucks are free, so are the uniforms, gas, oil, carwash, etc. You are really lucky people.A college degree is not without merit. If you finished high school and proceeded no further, you cannot know the critical thinking skills one must develop to complete college. You also may not have experienced the life-skills needed to survive within a diverse group.
College is not everything, but it is another part of one's intellectual growth. Whether it be Art or Medicine, college exposes you to things that you didn't see in high school. It may be in the form of a sociology teacher forcing you see family, race, or sex in a different way. It may force you to mingle and learn from other races that you didn't experience in your home town.
To downplay college is no different than downplaying the value of drivers without education. You are an
When I went to college I met foreign students who shared their experiences at home and in America. I was forced to complete tasks without Mom and Dad. I was forced to spend money and be held accountable(most college students don't spend money well). I learned to think for myself. I learned to research my opinions, and sometimes reject my long-held misguided opinions.
I was in the military as well. I learned more about dealing and finding something to respect about minorities. Something I didn't know while growing up in an affluent white area. I learned coping skills, teamwork and having pride in my accomplishments.
At UPS, I learned that all my college experiences helped me. I also noticed that while those without college could be good workers, they were often stunted by their limited educational experiences. It doesn't mean anyone without a college degree cannot be brilliant. Brilliance is something you have. Education is something you learn.
I have met brilliant people who would have been unstoppable if they had more education to marry to their god-given intelligence.
To suggest that a person who spent 4 or more years studying art, science, math, or english wasted their time on an irrelevant path is plainly just showing your own need for education.
Almost no position at UPS is paid fairly -- barring, perhaps, PT hourly in the centers or hub. These guys work the hardest (for the hours present) and make the least. The rest of us are all overpaid. Drivers especially, but management as well -- upper management the most.
There is a complete denial on this board when it comes to drivers owning up to the fact that they are simply drivers. Yeah, it takes skill and physical and mental ability. But, heck, it ain't rocket science. If it was so hard, how come it only take senority in the centers and hubs to get there. As I've noticed, it only takes the union to stay. There are a few awful drivers in every center I've visited. Those drivers bring down all of you. The union protects those and thus reduces all of you to the lowest common denominator. I would be mad if I were a good and thoughtful driver who had to endure the mindless few among you.
There are a bunch of duds in management too. I have to endure those. Luckily, those usually never rise above on-car. Unfortunately, they just plague you guys.
I would like for someone on this board to show me another driving job in america that makes as much as a UPS driver. The trucks are free, so are the uniforms, gas, oil, carwash, etc. You are really lucky people.
I think we are all tired of hearing that you deserve your money. No one deserves anything at UPS. You have to earn your keep, even if we earn more than we should.
Just because UPS makes so much money doesn't mean we have to spend it all on overpriced drivers and management.
FedEx and DHL are giving UPS a run for their money. I suspect without a labor union crisis at either of those places, we won't be competitive in the years to come. I hope I am wrong because I play to get a retirement from UPS.
The challenge has been issued! Lets see it guys
Audi you sound like some of the other angry managers and sups i see at UPS.But hate to break it to you without the hard working drivers that do the real work every day you wouldn't be getting paid.As a matter of fact when companys down size it almost always cuts management not the blue collar who are buttering the bread that the stockholders are eating.Sorry to break it to you but management are the employees that i have seen get escorted off the property the most.So if i where you i would save my money and where a turtle neck because you could be next.chop chop chop
PS the hard working laborers!
W
westsideworma
Guest
who cares? They do what they do and make their money. I am a PT hubrat (preloader) using this place to finish up my degree. I make 11 bucks an hour now, I could make that damn near anywhere else. I am there for the health bennies and the tuition assistance. Take away those other means of compensation and I wouldn't be anywhere near this place because for the money, its not worth it. I see the BS the drivers put up with and know what they deal with (I was a driver helper too). Maybe it isn't the most "skilled" job in the world, but they earn every penny from what I could see. Trying to save the company's ass all the time. When we went on PAS a good number of the businesses were very upset. Their delivery and pickup times all went to hell. Those unskilled drivers explained the system to these people and while they were still annoyed, they at least understood.
Management (on the whole) at my hub on the preload is a joke. Aside from 2 or 3 supes NO ONE knows what the hell is going on, its up to those unskilled drivers to pick up the pieces everyday. We (preloaders) are no longer a help to them thanks to PAS/EDD (its all numbers, we have no idea what is on our trucks) so its all on them now. Say what you want about the preloaders but B.E. (Before EDD) we actually could help the drivers out somewhat, now its by the PAL (numbers) only.
So I ask again what is the point of picking on drivers for their money? Are they overpaid for the skills needed? Possibly (I don't think so). However I think all that they do in addition to those skills more than justifies what they make. At least they are doing their job which is more than I can say for a lot of people (but definitely not all) in the management ranks. Those drivers you speak of are the reason everyone who is not "in the know" speak and think so highly of UPS. They are respectful, professional and like it or not, the face of this company. I can think of no better group to represent this company than those "overpaid and unskilled" drivers.
satellitedriver
Senior Member
Meaning the only job we are capable of getting is delivering boxes? I have to agree that the only challenge in my job is to read an address, go there, drop a box. My choice. No union protects me.If it makes you feel empowered to have a degree. Great. 80% of people do not work in their degree field, so don't get too cocky wavying around your sheep skin. How was your GPA? Do you have a Masters? If not,then your degree is worth about a HS diploma in this day and age.
3
31stplace=winnner
Guest
Wow -- 80%, you got facts, and don't even have a college degree that you suggest is the new HS diploma.
What does that make your HS diploma, the new Special Olympics participation certificate -- remember, Corky, you are all winners!!!
I got a medal for 31st place. I drive big big brown truck. I like cookies.
Keepingthemhonest
Bring'n sexy back
I like cookies too 
!
I am only 20, work parttime and have almost completed my 4 year degree as a network administrator however plan on driving just for the $$$$. When they claim I am an uneducated POS I can say I am an officer in the USANG and drive because it's where the d0ll4$ are at. When they claim I do not earn what I make I'll simple state I am not paid enough to have the displeasure of seeing their dumbfounded faces mon-fri. Lastly, when they claim I am easily replaceable, as you state audi, I'll say granted you can easily replace me but if I do nothing wrong and work ethically then you must also replace my brothers, all 86000+ have fun jerkoff...furthermore these idiots can't even fit a circle drive into the loop at the correct location using a simple gui much less set up the infrastructure themselves. (so much for this all empowering degree attained by idiots) STFU do your own damn job and let me do mine. When and if layoffs come at the smallparcel division (the bread and butter mindyou), I wonder who will get the chop, the people doing the work or the monkeys screwing everything up because of their pompous, arrogant, self-preserving attitudes...
also you claim we are lucky...bah, first off, one makes his own "luck". I do so by working parttime for less compenation per hour than my current fulltime job just to keep senority and the option to drive 10 years down the road. It takes some real dedication to come in at 4am and deal with ups bs for beans, then go off to another job all the while finishing one's degree. Most drivers realize this and thats why they stick their neck out for this company so much, going that extra mile. We are the reason why this company grew the way it did before going public...sacrificing their family time to meet customer demands...it's not to hit your bull**** money grubbing, publicly traded, stock dividends or help you make a yearly stock bonus, it's to ensure the survival of this company, get back to the basics fools.
ps: eat **** and die audi
!I am only 20, work parttime and have almost completed my 4 year degree as a network administrator however plan on driving just for the $$$$. When they claim I am an uneducated POS I can say I am an officer in the USANG and drive because it's where the d0ll4$ are at. When they claim I do not earn what I make I'll simple state I am not paid enough to have the displeasure of seeing their dumbfounded faces mon-fri. Lastly, when they claim I am easily replaceable, as you state audi, I'll say granted you can easily replace me but if I do nothing wrong and work ethically then you must also replace my brothers, all 86000+ have fun jerkoff...furthermore these idiots can't even fit a
circle drive into the loop at the correct location using a simple gui much less set up the infrastructure themselves. (so much for this all empowering degree attained by idiots) STFU do your own damn job and let me do mine. When and if layoffs come at the smallparcel division (the bread and butter mindyou), I wonder who will get the chop, the people doing the work or the monkeys screwing everything up because of their pompous, arrogant, self-preserving attitudes...also you claim we are lucky...bah, first off, one makes his own "luck". I do so by working parttime for less compenation per hour than my current fulltime job just to keep senority and the option to drive 10 years down the road. It takes some real dedication to come in at 4am and deal with ups bs for beans, then go off to another job all the while finishing one's degree. Most drivers realize this and thats why they stick their neck out for this company so much, going that extra mile. We are the reason why this company grew the way it did before going public...sacrificing their family time to meet customer demands...it's not to hit your bull**** money grubbing, publicly traded, stock dividends or help you make a yearly stock bonus, it's to ensure the survival of this company, get back to the basics fools.
ps: eat **** and die audi
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E
EyesEducated
Guest
I like cookies too
I am only 20, work parttime and have almost completed my 4 year degree as a network administrator however plan on driving just for the $$$$. When they claim I am an uneducated POS I can say I am an officer in the USANG and drive because it's where the d0ll4$ are at. When they claim I do not earn what I make I'll simple state I am not paid enough to have the displeasure of seeing their dumbfounded faces mon-fri. Lastly, when they claim I am easily replaceable, as you state audi, I'll say granted you can easily replace me but if I do nothing wrong and work ethically then you must also replace my brothers, all 86000+ have fun jerkoff...furthermore these idiots can't even fit a
also you claim we are lucky...bah, first off, one makes his own "luck". I do so by working parttime for less compenation per hour than my current fulltime job just to keep senority and the option to drive 10 years down the road. It takes some real dedication to come in at 4am and deal with ups bs for beans, then go off to another job all the while finishing one's degree. Most drivers realize this and thats why they stick their neck out for this company so much, going that extra mile. We are the reason why this company grew the way it did before going public...sacrificing their family time to meet customer demands...it's not to hit your bull**** money grubbing, publicly traded, stock dividends or help you make a yearly stock bonus, it's to ensure the survival of this company, get back to the basics fools.
ps: eat **** and die audi
Dude,
God Bless you during this holiday season -- had to get that out of the way.
Now, as to your degree in networking,... perhaps you should have spent more time learning how to write and spell. That was the most incoherent pile of crap I have read in a long time.
Please drive a truck, because academia is not your strong point. As far as USANG -- hopefully you are a pencil pusher (or military delivery driving officer -- teehee!), because I wouldn't want you flying a kite over my town, much less an airplane.
Learn to communicate mumblemouth.
Keeping them honest..... Ouch.. eat **** and die? That hurt. Spoken like a true uneducated worker bee. Keep up the good work drone! Maybe ill get the pleasure of helping you deliver during peak. Oh wait, you are still years away from getting to drive the truck like the big boys!
As far as your stock / dividend / numbers rant..... i think you need to take a business class. Learn what exactly a publicly traded company is all about. Its about dividends to the shareholders.
So i appreciate you sacrificing your family time to meet the demands of the customers. It keeps them coming back, therefore driving up earnings, therefore increasing my dividends. Me and the rest of us "money grubbing" shareholders at UPS appreciate your hard work.
P.S. - A LOT of drivers own stock too, im willing to bet they appreciate you increasing the dividend too.
As far as your stock / dividend / numbers rant..... i think you need to take a business class. Learn what exactly a publicly traded company is all about. Its about dividends to the shareholders.
So i appreciate you sacrificing your family time to meet the demands of the customers. It keeps them coming back, therefore driving up earnings, therefore increasing my dividends. Me and the rest of us "money grubbing" shareholders at UPS appreciate your hard work.
P.S. - A LOT of drivers own stock too, im willing to bet they appreciate you increasing the dividend too.
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satellitedriver
Senior Member
Corky?
I have been called alot of names but never that.
I will add it to my list.
In this day in age, a college diploma is worth what a HS was in 1971.Thats when I graduated.
When I took computer science it was old school. Fortran, Cobal and punch cards.
By the way, I never said I didn't have a degree.
I don't know if I am a winner, but I do know I am debt free.( home, cars, land,investments,cash)
And, it all came from driving a big brown truck.
Yes, I know facts.
Condescention is a poor form of rebuttal.
Getting back to the orginal post about job cuts, considering that with most cuts with major corporations the first ones to go are from the white collar sections, especially with the workforce being represented by a union. Presuming that the higher salary, long term management employee would be target number uno, most should be well taken care of with their many years of collecting MIP, when it meant something anyway. Most corporations present an early out retirement option, or buy out with severance, didn't we have one in the middle nineties. Any low level OMS, part time supervisor and front line full time supervisor need not worry, most earn their keep. Mid level staff or support people may be on the look out for some position changes, similar to what the TSG people are going through currently.
As far as this bickering about what the educational level of the average package car driver, consider that most of us who went into the full time package car position came from the part time ranks. It took in my region an average of eight to ten years just to be able to bid on one of those positions. Most all the part time workforce during the 70's, 80's and early 90's were obtaining college educations, some actually have their masters. Never underestimate the intelligence of your co-
workers unless you live in their shoes or really get to know them, what you see on company time may not be a fair assessment of how smart or clever the employee may be. Most of us put on a face when are feet first cross the security crossing, playing dumb has become a real option and some of us have got it down to an art.
As far as this bickering about what the educational level of the average package car driver, consider that most of us who went into the full time package car position came from the part time ranks. It took in my region an average of eight to ten years just to be able to bid on one of those positions. Most all the part time workforce during the 70's, 80's and early 90's were obtaining college educations, some actually have their masters. Never underestimate the intelligence of your co-
workers unless you live in their shoes or really get to know them, what you see on company time may not be a fair assessment of how smart or clever the employee may be. Most of us put on a face when are feet first cross the security crossing, playing dumb has become a real option and some of us have got it down to an art.
Having a college degree, you'd likely realise that $28/hr = $58 240 a year, which really isn't that much. Add a kid and stay-at-home parent, and now you're really scraping it. Customs and Border Protection officers make around that much, and they're not skilled. So do a lot of blue collared people, like those who made your audi.
As a college graduate, you get jobs that start you above the top UPS rate. Urban planners start at $31/hr where I live. So really, yes, as much as UPS couriers make a reasonable amount of money (aka "living wage"), it's not that much. Why you need to argue the wages of other people really beats the hell out of me. One thing if you say it once, another when you say it to the point of where you're a troll
T
TrollingforWages
Guest
Roger that, I'm a Troll.
Troll Troll Troll.
Overpaid Drivers, Overpaid Drivers, Overpaid Drivers.
It would be one thing to appreciate your well-paid job as a driver, it is another thing to be so obnoxious about it that you are a troll.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
Cezanne said, "....playing dumb has become a real option and some of us have got it down to an art.". 
I agree completely. We get paid the same whether we are smart or dumb.
On more than one occasion the company has shown me they aren't interested in what I think.
I agree completely. We get paid the same whether we are smart or dumb.
On more than one occasion the company has shown me they aren't interested in what I think.
blue efficacy
Well-Known Member
I would say pretty much all UPS drivers make above 58K. Remember this little thing called Overtime....
They do pretty damn well for themselves. A sizeable majority of the American workforce earns less than what they do.
