Lightest peak season ever

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
Yes, we've all benefited so much by Elon Musk's and Jeff Bozo's "innovations". Truly. How can we thank them sufficiently?
The beauty is we don’t have to thank them, they have been well rewarded for their risk. Innovation pays off. Any many many people have jobs because of their “evil” companies and many many others.

Sorry, making successful people out to be evil isn’t going to make your argument work. I’m sorry you are so unhappy why don’t you choose something else?
 

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
Good for you. But you think that's a real exercise of choice and to me that's just a matter of course, sheer inertia. I work for company A or company B, or I manage to make enough to start company C: all 3 ways revolve around a world that has dispossessed people of land, resources, and skills, and rendered them fit only to sell their labor for a wage or else hire (exploit) others do the same.
I mean,,,, what?? I am not disposessed of land, resources or whatever... I’m having a hard time trying to envision what it is your getting at.
 

Whither

Scofflaw
The beauty is we don’t have to thank them, they have been well rewarded for their risk. Innovation pays off. Any many many people have jobs because of their “evil” companies and many many others.

Sorry, making successful people out to be evil isn’t going to make your argument work. I’m sorry you are so unhappy why don’t you choose something else?
My argument doesn't turn on considering billionaires "evil". This whole society is an empty fraud. It's a BS "system." And besides, the billionaires wouldn't exist without us, admittedly under conditions of duress, working so that they can reap their silly fortunes.
 

Whither

Scofflaw
I mean,,,, what?? I am not disposessed of land, resources or whatever... I’m having a hard time trying to envision what it is your getting at.
That's because you feel at home in a way of life that seems alien to me. For example, let's say I've finished paying my mortgage. People say that's a good way to achieve "independence" and "stability", and besides, if you rent, you know you're gonna keep paying til you're dead. But, oops, I've paid my mortgage and I still have to pay property taxes for the house/land. I want to work on the house, oops, I need to pay a permit fee. I "own" it, and yet, I'm still renting it and paying for the blessing to modify it. :lol:
 

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
That's because you feel at home in a way of life that seems alien to me. For example, let's say I've finished paying my mortgage. People say that's a good way to achieve "independence" and "stability", and besides, if you rent, you know you're gonna keep paying til you're dead. But, oops, I've paid my mortgage and I still have to pay property taxes for the house/land. I want to work on the house, oops, I need to pay a permit fee. I "own" it, and yet, I'm still renting it and paying for the blessing to modify it. :lol:
Yes, I feel comfortable. I’m still trying to figure out what you would feel comfortable and unalienable to you.
 

Whither

Scofflaw
Yes, I feel comfortable. I’m still trying to figure out what you would feel comfortable and unalienable to you.
I have a different understanding of freedom than you. It seems you feel "free" while at the same time being dependent on a company that has interests alien to yours and mine. That's fine, your life, I just hope you don't turn into a scab like @satellitedriver and start singing the praises of the company. I only say that because you seem primed.
 

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
The link pointed out that the company had made more PROFIT in the first 9 months of this year than it ever had in an entire year. Meanwhile the company is trying to work many of us 6 days a week. And some/many cower and do it. Significantly increasing their risk of accidents and injuries, as well as endangering the general public. But all that's fine, right? Because people have a "choice" right?
Short answer is yes. I have a choice. Right now business is booming and we are pulling down $7k a week. I’d rather make a bit less and work less but I’ll take more time off in February.

I didn’t bother reading the article since it came from CNN the Voice of Communism instead I just look st the actual figures. In first nine months of year, due to work by Teamsters, other union and non union employees our customers paid in over $69 billion.

UPS shareholders (includes almost every person with a diversified 401k or IRA) pocketed a $7.5 billion profit. A bit over 10% of the money customers paid in. Love it, a great return, especially coming into contract time.

Meanwhile UPS employees shared just under $34 billion. That’s about half the money coming in going to the workers. Sorry I don’t feel “exploited”. Maybe if I made $15/hr and paid for medical I would.
 

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
I have a different understanding of freedom than you. It seems you feel "free" while at the same time being dependent on a company that has interests alien to yours and mine. That's fine, your life, I just hope you don't turn into a scab like @satellitedriver and start singing the praises of the company. I only say that because you seem primed.
Oh trust me I rip on things the company does, decisions made etc. but overall it’s a great gig for me.. just too much of a good thing some times.

I keep trying to figure out what your meaning of freedom is. I get that your not happy at ups and I get that why are you still here? You have choice, you have freedom, we don’t live in North Korea.
 

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
That's because you feel at home in a way of life that seems alien to me. For example, let's say I've finished paying my mortgage. People say that's a good way to achieve "independence" and "stability", and besides, if you rent, you know you're gonna keep paying til you're dead. But, oops, I've paid my mortgage and I still have to pay property taxes for the house/land. I want to work on the house, oops, I need to pay a permit fee. I "own" it, and yet, I'm still renting it and paying for the blessing to modify it. :lol:
So you don’t want business to be involved in our life and you don’t want government involved either. Probably on some things I’d agree with the latter lol. But overall I still don’t get the world you want to Iive in.
 

Whither

Scofflaw
Short answer is yes. I have a choice. Right now business is booming and we are pulling down $7k a week. I’d rather make a bit less and work less but I’ll take more time off in February.

I didn’t bother reading the article since it came from CNN the Voice of Communism instead I just look st the actual figures. In first nine months of year, due to work by Teamsters, other union and non union employees our customers paid in over $69 billion.

UPS shareholders (includes almost every person with a diversified 401k or IRA) pocketed a $7.5 billion profit. A bit over 10% of the money customers paid in. Love it, a great return, especially coming into contract time.

Meanwhile UPS employees shared just under $34 billion. That’s about half the money coming in going to the workers. Sorry I don’t feel “exploited”. Maybe if I made $15/hr and paid for medical I would.
It's hilarious that you think CNN is the "Voice of Communism" when it's just milquetoast liberalism! Imagine a major media corporation being committed to its own demise lmao!

You don't get that exploitation is about control. It's not about how well, or poorly, you're being exploited, or whether you "feel" exploited, e.g., whether you have a good or bad price on your head. We all still have a bounty. Yes it's better to have a higher bounty than a lower, but it's still a shameful condition. In Ancient Rome there were plenty of slaves who were quite rich compared to the plebs (the commoners). But they were still slaves. Now we live in a society that coddles dependency precisely because it does not give people the land, resources, and skills necessary for autonomy. The autonomy of the masses would not reproduce capital: it takes a lot of schooling, and other training, and legal relationships to get people to acquiesce to conditions like ours. And I gather you would be opposed to any moves by the populace to take these matters into their own hands. Because you can't imagine there was ever anything better, or that there could be anything better.
 

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
It's hilarious that you think CNN is the "Voice of Communism" when it's just milquetoast liberalism! Imagine a major media corporation being committed to its own demise lmao!

You don't get that exploitation is about control. It's not about how well, or poorly, you're being exploited, or whether you "feel" exploited, e.g., whether you have a good or bad price on your head. We all still have a bounty. Yes it's better to have a higher bounty than a lower, but it's still a shameful condition. In Ancient Rome there were plenty of slaves who were quite rich compared to the plebs (the commoners). But they were still slaves. Now we live in a society that coddles dependency precisely because it does not give people the land, resources, and skills necessary for autonomy. The autonomy of the masses would not reproduce capital: it takes a lot of schooling, and other training, and legal relationships to get people to acquiesce to conditions like ours. And I gather you would be opposed to any moves by the populace to take these matters into their own hands. Because you can't imagine there was ever anything better, or that there could be anything better.
You write a lot of pretty words but say little. What would you replace it with? Work is still going to be required I’m guessing? I get that you feel enslaved because your working for a living and someone else controls to an extent when and how you work. But regardless of the economic system in place your going to be responsible to contribute somehow right? TANSTAAFL (“There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.)
 

Whither

Scofflaw
You have choice, you have freedom, we don’t live in North Korea.
That's the rub. I say it's not a "choice" that I can sell my time/labor for another company, or else start a company and hire others do the same. "Meet the new rulers, same as the old." A choice would mean that I/you/anyone would not face dreadful obstacles to living another way. But that's not really possible as long as we live in a society based on wage labor. It is imaginative leap. But it's high time to stop dreaming the dreams of this bankrupt society.
 

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
Let me ask you, with no government and no business and no paid labor... how do we get roads built? How do we get vehicles to drive on those roads?
 

AKCoverMan

Well-Known Member
That's the rub. I say it's not a "choice" that I can sell my time/labor for another company, or else start a company and hire others do the same. "Meet the new rulers, same as the old." A choice would mean that I/you/anyone would not face dreadful obstacles to living another way. But that's not really possible as long as we live in a society based on wage labor. It is imaginative leap. But it's high time to stop dreaming the dreams of this bankrupt society.
I’ll ask once again, what is this alternative way of living in which we don’t work but we have all we need? I get that you don’t want to work for a living...please explain the alternative? Maybe I can learn a better way.
 
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