misload policy?

[tieguy]

Now THAT'S a troll post if I ever saw one. I think the boards died down a little bit and the action has been lacking - someone's getting DT's

Troll post? Well I guess it got the response of one.
A file full of refused to sign write ups at the panel shows an uncooperative employee who refuses to take responsibility for his / her actions. Believe it or not its a legitimate point to be made.

"Look at this stack of write ups. Management has tried to counsel this person 45 times and each time the person has refused to take any responsibility for his actions and has refused to committ to improving"

 

[steward377]

Troll post? Well I guess it got the response of one.
A file full of refused to sign write ups at the panel shows an uncooperative employee who refuses to take responsibility for his / her actions. Believe it or not its a legitimate point to be made.

"Look at this stack of write ups. Management has tried to counsel this person 45 times and each time the person has refused to take any responsibility for his actions and has refused to committ to improving"

or one that has been harassed repeatedly by an angry guy in a tie
9 months fellow is all you get so bring the whole file

 

[livinitup]

There are steps that must be followed in every disciplinary situation.
First the employee must be given a verbal warning in the presence of union representation. Other wise they could simply deny the charges stating a lack of a unbiased witness. The next step is to send a warning letter. Then a suspension.

I personally feel that you catch more bees with honey... If you want your numbers look good offer rewards for excellence. How about employee of the month and a gift card to starbucks. We are all human and make mistakes. If the company expects no mistakes they should build robots to do the job.

Any time I am accused of something minor and threatened with disciplinary action I always try to put it into perspective. I explain that I constantly over look the mistakes of the management. That I can easily file 20 grievances a day and not only cost them the time and money to fight them but for most of the grievances I would get paid for work that I didn't do.

That being said deny everything. The proof falls on management. If a supervisor cover you while you went to the bathroom or a drive helped to load your truck generally you are off the hook.

 

[tieguy]

or one that has been harassed repeatedly by an angry guy in a tie
9 months fellow is all you get so bring the whole file

Absolutely . the employee is never wrong. we in management had nothing better to do with our lives then talk to the guy 45 times about misloads. Is this your first year as a steward?

by the way congrats on promoting a white female to diversify all the white males running your union local. I guess you believe in fighting for the working man as long as he is not a non-white trying to run your union local.

 

[FromBluetoBrown]

I don't know anything about misloads. I load my trucks using the fung shei method.

 

[VTBrown]

Guys.....

As Stewards you also need to make sure the preloader is doing the job CORRECTLY to begin with.

 

[happy harry]

One of the many sups we got come to me friday and said we had a talk with so and so about his misloads and we had to give him a warning letter but they move this boy around all the time to different trucks and hes not the only one with misloads. i asked him if he signed anything he said he was never asked to sign anything and yes they talked to him without my presence. The sup asked me if i was mad about talking to him without me there and i said yes of course.

The sup can talk with the employee about anything he wants without the presence of a steward,but it can only be documented as a talk with. Any progressive discipline needs to be addressed in the presence of a shop steward.(If this really bothers you, and you have a good standing relationship with the supervisor talk with him and express that you would like to be involved in all talk withs.) For the purpose of fixing the problem and counciling the employee.

I really wouldn't argue the issue of moving the employee around alot. But the route i would take is to make sure that anytime he does get moved the pt supervisor makes sure he has a load chart on his wrist.

 

[happy harry]

I tell all my people not to sign any document unless they are threatened with discipline,

YOU CANNOT BE DISCIPLINED FOR NOT SIGNING ANYTHING..... If i were you i would advise everyone not to sign even if they do a good job. Because down the road if for some strange reason an employee is sick,or having a bad day,problems at home,etc and a supervisor wants to discipline him/her you bet to believe they will use it against you.

then I tell them to sign but write "under protest" after their name.
That way, if it comes up in the future it shows that the person didn't want to sign, but was forced to avoid discipline. And ALWAYS ask for a copy of anything that you sign.

Also if they try and use that "signed" document against the person look at filing a grievance under artile 6 "extra contract agreements".

They can eventually discharge an employee for misloads after progressive discipline. My advice would be to have a one-on-one with the loader and tell him/her to focus more on double or triple checking the label before loading the package. Sometimes you have to take a couple steps back if you know what I mean.
I Agree

Good Luck!

 

[steward377]

Guys.....

As Stewards you also need to make sure the preloader is doing the job CORRECTLY to begin with.

your right make sure that he was properly trained by management because doesn't it all boil down to proper training

I can't believe anybody still has misload cards I haven't seeen them for 10 years or so hahahahaha

 

[happy harry]

H---- that is what I was trying to say.Take your time to make sure you do the job right.But not everyone has the same ability to read, scan ,and load at the same rate.And lets not forget the itimatation factor its hard to work correctley sometimes with the Hitler Youth screaming at you.As long as your are using proper methods and doing your best i.e. (no misloads) why would management want to disipline you?For a few less packages an hour.

I was just responding to your preivious post regarding slowing down for misloads,and how you can be disciplined for pph when it becomes necessary to be used against you.

And i agree with you to a point on why management would want to discipline you for loading a few less pph. But the reality is if it ties into an employee's overall record for anything they will use that against you.

 

[happy harry]

Call your local and get some Weingarten Cards and give them out . The employee in matters of displine has the right to representation.If he wasn't repremanded in your's or another stewards presence the warning letter is not worth the paper it is written on. Call your local and advise your BA of the situation. They will protest the letter.

Absolutely...good point. Alot of employee's union/management are not familiar with the Weingarten rights. This your protection as an hourly employee against closed door meetings with management .They used to be in the front of the contract cover. (local 804) Did they stop that practice?

 

[happy harry]

There are steps that must be followed in every disciplinary situation.
First the employee must be given a verbal warning in the presence of union representation. Other wise they could simply deny the charges stating a lack of a unbiased witness. The next step is to send a warning letter. Then a suspension.

I personally feel that you catch more bees with honey... If you want your numbers look good offer rewards for excellence. How about employee of the month and a gift card to starbucks. We are all human and make mistakes. If the company expects no mistakes they should build robots to do the job.

I could not agree more. I think this is the best approach to running an area or a group of people. I was always a strong advocate for the recognition/accountability management technique. If your employee's do a good job and take care of you. I think you should take care of them. If i had employee's that worked hard for me I would either buy them water,soda, food,maybe a day off here or there. Just something to show my appreciation and gratitude for helping me out.
But there is a flip side to the coin. If the employee was making mistake's or not coming to work I would try to work with them,re-train them properly,change job assignment's(not recommended because its just band-aiding the problem) whatever I could before I had to discipline them.Sometimes this is necessary.

Any time I am accused of something minor and threatened with disciplinary action I always try to put it into perspective. I explain that I constantly over look the mistakes of the management. That I can easily file 20 grievances a day and not only cost them the time and money to fight them but for most of the grievances I would get paid for work that I didn't do.

That being said deny everything. The proof falls on management. If a supervisor cover you while you went to the bathroom or a drive helped to load your truck generally you are off the hook.

 

[artist]

Since this is a misload topic, I kind of have a problem lately since a new sups came back. Ever since I started for the first 3 weeks I never have a misload because my trainer always help me out and caught my misload which I always put in consideration to look twice to make sure and I never have a misload since. But lately it seem like I been having a lot of misload since this new sup came back. I help out people load truck and load my own, when they have misload I have to sign my name on a misload chart and the sups always look at me and tell me watch out where you put the package but I know its not my misload. I notice the person I load with have been working there for about 4 months and have the most misload.. because the person that I also work with told me. But It seem like I'm getting blame for that person misload mistake.. I notice the new sup always go in my truck everyday to check on my load put boxes and move them and I always have something on the back of my mind that they are doing something in there lol. I'm like 99% sure that I put the packages in the right truck but I keep getting misload ever since this sups came back. It seem like the sups is putting other people misload on me. The other day I have like ten and I think that is ridiculous I check my load all the time to make sure. Can I get fired for having misload everyday? I'm not sure if I'm a part-timer or seasonal I started working at the beginning of Nov of this year. I made sure all my packages was on the right truck today so lets see if I get a misload tommorow if I do I definitely think the new sup have something against me lol.

 

[Fredless]

Absolutely . the employee is never wrong. we in management had nothing better to do with our lives then talk to the guy 45 times about misloads. Is this your first year as a steward?

Well you guys can't move packages generally speaking (don't pull out your technicality crap). So go ahead and harass all you want, I like playing the letter of concern and article 37 game if I have to.

by the way congrats on promoting a white female to diversify all the white males running your union local. I guess you believe in fighting for the working man as long as he is not a non-white trying to run your union local.

Wow that was really low brow. I've never seen you stoop that low..what an uncalled for, off topic, pointless remark.

Anyway, bring your 45 RTS write ups...I'll see your ass at panel. I haven't lost an employee (yet) even at my age and relative lack of experience.

Heres how misloads in the small sorts at my hub haven't gone further than a warning letter (yet):
1)Management preaches by the book sermons to us, which is GREAT by me. I love when you guys "play by the rules" to crack your whips, that eliminates a lot of other b.s.

2)lighting is poor in the small sort
3)supervisors move people around (A LOT)
4)we've told them NUMEROUS times the labels for the in-state splits are RIDICULOUSLY small and they still do nothing about it and see reason number 3 why this really applies.
5)I can always find about 5 things not completely done by the rules at our hub at night. The last time the hub manager got nasty with a his write up moods, I slapped him with "hair splitting" greivances like the seniority list had not been updated in the past quarter, it was past due by two days..crap like that.

It has been MY experience that management is usually the ones that look like the fools at panel or they know they will so they'll settle outside. Maybe its in my hub, but if management practiced what they preached, they'd have a LOT of terminations that would be on the docket that they would probably win.

 

[tieguy]

Well you guys can't move packages generally speaking (don't pull out your technicality crap). So go ahead and harass all you want, I like playing the letter of concern and article 37 game if I have to.




Wow that was really low brow. I've never seen you stoop that low..what an uncalled for, off topic, pointless remark.

Anyway, bring your 45 RTS write ups...I'll see your ass at panel. I haven't lost an employee (yet) even at my age and relative lack of experience.

Interesting point. It appears we have nothing but perfect shop stewards on this board who never lose a case yet in the real world you lose these cases all the time or you're smart enough to settle before you get to a panel. Perhaps you guys are playing madden labor games outside the real world?

Heres how misloads in the small sorts at my hub haven't gone further than a warning letter (yet):
1)Management preaches by the book sermons to us, which is GREAT by me. I love when you guys "play by the rules" to crack your whips, that eliminates a lot of other b.s.

why would I disagree with management playing by the book?

2)lighting is poor in the small sort
3)supervisors move people around (A LOT)
4)we've told them NUMEROUS times the labels for the in-state splits are RIDICULOUSLY small and they still do nothing about it and see reason number 3 why this really applies.
5)I can always find about 5 things not completely done by the rules at our hub at night. The last time the hub manager got nasty with a his write up moods, I slapped him with "hair splitting" greivances like the seniority list had not been updated in the past quarter, it was past due by two days..crap like that.

and shop stewards make a lot of excuses for their people rather then making sure they provide our customers with good service?

It has been MY experience that management is usually the ones that look like the fools at panel or they know they will so they'll settle outside. Maybe its in my hub, but if management practiced what they preached, they'd have a LOT of terminations that would be on the docket that they would probably win.

Didn't realize discipline was all about winning and losing . thought it was about changing bahavior? You do help us change behavior don't you?

 

[Fredless]

Stop over-exagerating to try and get your point across.

Yes, I try and change behavior but if the employee cannont change it thats their fault.

If you guys don't do what you're supposed to in order to get them suspended etc..thats your fault. Don't blame it on the union. As I said, if (in my hub) you guys followed the rules you preached, we'd only have mercy cases.

..and in a sick way, with repeat offenders that abuse the contract - yes to keep me going I look at it as a competition with management at this point. They are still union members and I have to fight as hard for them on the first offense, or in your case of poor management, 45 cases that you've brought to panel and you still can't win.

 

[tieguy]

Stop over-exagerating to try and get your point across.

Yes, I try and change behavior but if the employee cannont change it thats their fault.

If you guys don't do what you're supposed to in order to get them suspended etc..thats your fault. Don't blame it on the union. As I said, if (in my hub) you guys followed the rules you preached, we'd only have mercy cases.

..and in a sick way, with repeat offenders that abuse the contract - yes to keep me going I look at it as a competition with management at this point. They are still union members and I have to fight as hard for them on the first offense, or in your case of poor management, 45 cases that you've brought to panel and you still can't win.

Fred all that sounds good but the norma rae fighting for the working man abused by the company issues don't come up that much. Most of the discipline given is cut and dried. you may get one case every once in a while that you can argue for some ambigous rule but those are the exceptions.

your case about misloads is another. you and i both know that you taking an employee to the panel who has been talked to 45 times is a loser any way you shake it. At best you might get the person reinstated with a last and final warning.

 

[Damok]

As with all things it seems that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of this argument.

 

[badsporh]

Interesting point. It appears we have nothing but perfect shop stewards on this board who never lose a case yet in the real world you lose these cases all the time or you're smart enough to settle before you get to a panel. Perhaps you guys are playing madden labor games outside the real world?

YOU are the one that is living in some fantasy world. All management that I've dealt with is either too lazy or too incompetent to use ANY form of progressive discipline. If your writing skills are indicitive of the norm in supervision, I guess I can see why YOU ALL would be retecent to put pen to paper.

why would I disagree with management playing by the book?

You WOULDN'T disagree with it in an open forum like this, but I'm sure the only time that you DO play by the book is when someone reads the book to you.

and shop stewards make a lot of excuses for their people rather then making sure they provide our customers with good service?

Right.....when was the last time you provided anybody with good service? NEVER! You're a parasite that exhists ONLY from the sweat and hard work of my fellow teamsters.

Didn't realize discipline was all about winning and losing . thought it was about changing bahavior? You do help us change behavior don't you?

HA! Supervisiors discipline out of contempt, revenge, and spitefulness. 99% of the time the fact that you have to discipline at all has to do with YOUR OWN short comings and inability to train properly and effectively.
"Hey boss look! I'm disciplining somebody! That proves I'm worthy of a paycheck!"

 

[tieguy]

Its been enjoyable sporh but there really is no reason to go further with this journey. You came on this site telling everyone to vote no. There is very little on the internet as to why your local voted no.I asked you why, You were unable to say so because you did not know. So i would encourage you to spend more time educating yourself in the future. then feel free to post here and educate us as to the real issues. One of the points I have proven here time and again is that the posters who show up here screaming vote no usually have not bothered to educate theirselves on the contract. They have not read the literature, they have not attended their local contract review meeting and they definitely did not involve theirselves in the initial meetings last year when all was planned. They then get caught up in the hysteria at the last minute and start screaming without knowing what they are screaming about. Don't blame the company nor your union leaders nor the sixty five percent that voted for the contract. Blame yourself for not being more involved in the process.