misload policy?

[badsporh]

Its been enjoyable sporh but there really is no reason to go further with this journey. You came on this site telling everyone to vote no. There is very little on the internet as to why your local voted no.I asked you why, You were unable to say so because you did not know. So i would encourage you to spend more time educating yourself in the future. then feel free to post here and educate us as to the real issues. One of the points I have proven here time and again is that the posters who show up here screaming vote no usually have not bothered to educate theirselves on the contract. They have not read the literature, they have not attended their local contract review meeting and they definitely did not involve theirselves in the initial meetings last year when all was planned. They then get caught up in the hysteria at the last minute and start screaming without knowing what they are screaming about. Don't blame the company nor your union leaders nor the sixty five percent that voted for the contract. Blame yourself for not being more involved in the process.

I disagree, it has not been in enjoyable. I sincerly doubt that anybody has ever described any interaction with you as such.
I did post my REASON for voting no on the contract. It does not have to pass muster with you. There does not have to be 100 reasons. You seem to think if you say I did not post a reason enough times that you can somehow revise history. You can not. I encourage everybody and anybody to read that entire thread and make their own mind up. But you seem to have a problem with ANYBODY making their own mind up. I don't know how you ever got the idea that YOU are capable of doing that for other people, but you seem to think you are. That would be scary if I thought even one person could read any of your run on sentences and be convinced of anything other than you didn't pay much attention in English class.
Furthermore, the only hysteria that is fomented on this board is by you. The thread that I started became VERY productive once you were subtracted from the equation. So please, stay subtracted.

 

[Fredless]

your case about misloads is another. you and i both know that you taking an employee to the panel who has been talked to 45 times is a loser any way you shake it. At best you might get the person reinstated with a last and final warning.

You guys hire them, we have to represent them. Nature of the beast.

Again, I'll see you at panel. My hub manager likes to use the phrase "roll the dice."

 

[HazMatMan]

you folks generally do everything to avoid taking responsibility for your mistakes. thats the nature of the beast. Meanwhile a refused to sign on the document shows an un cooperative employee that refuses to admit his mistakes. good material for the panel. You outhouse lawyers advising them not to sign generally help us build a better case for discharge.

Tie, you act like it is absolutely impossible for a sup to put a pkg in the wrong truck, why is he loading trucks in the first place if a preloader is already assigned to those trucks (gee, let me count the ways) Sups make mistakes too and I am sure you would have to pull teeth to get him/her to admit it. I remember a part-time sup would run around like a chicken without a head at the end of the night grabbing airs off the belt and putting them in the backs of the trucks, who knows if he put those airs in the right trucks? Those same preloaders on his belt were in the office the next day for off-routes and buried airs. Also used to see drivers "stocking their shelves" with air envelopes to deliver with the ground, if he delivers it late and there is a problem then he could easily say it was the preloader who buried the air. What I am saying Tie, is unless you have absolute proof a preloader buried an air or misloaded how on earth can you discipline?? Are the rules of the judicial system different when we walk through the doors of UPS???
As for us folks generally doing everything to avoid taking responsibility for our mistakes, I've been at UPS for over 19 years and can't remember the last time a sup told me he/she made a mistake.

 

[HazMatMan]

You guys hire them," don't train them properly" we have to represent them. Nature of the beast.


Improper training, THAT is the nature of the beast!!

 

[HazMatMan]

Absolutely...good point. Alot of employee's union/management are not familiar with the Weingarten rights. This your protection as an hourly employee against closed door meetings with management .They used to be in the front of the contract cover. (local 804) Did they stop that practice?

It's in the back of the book.

 

[Fredless]

You guys hire them," don't train them properly" we have to represent them. Nature of the beast.


Improper training, THAT is the nature of the beast!!

Hence his 45 RTS statements. In my particular situation, I am actually WAITING for a suspension to come about for misloads (hopefully its me) because of the bad conditions...we've even TOLD supervisors, hey do this and we'll have no excuse....they have yet to remedy the situation.

What it boils down to, is a pencil pusher in I.E. re-designed the small sort, and management has no gaul to change it around a bit.

So just like government, they won't put up a stop sign or traffic light until some people die, they won't change it until we kick their ass at panel over a suspension or term and win a ton of back pay will they actually get off their paper pushing high horse and listen to the bottom line people.

I HATE I.E.

 

[VTBrown]

You guys hire them," don't train them properly" we have to represent them. Nature of the beast.


Improper training, THAT is the nature of the beast!!

Yeah! Reading comprehension and awareness. Where did UPS go wrong?

Gee.....Route 1 goes in Truck 1. Not Truck 2 on the correct shelf.

 

[Fredless]

You are very narrow minded.

 

[govols019]

Yeah! Reading comprehension and awareness. Where did UPS go wrong?

Gee.....Route 1 goes in Truck 1. Not Truck 2 on the correct shelf.

How long were you a preloader under the PAS system?

 

[trplnkl]

Absolutely . the employee is never wrong. we in management had nothing better to do with our lives then talk to the guy 45 times about misloads. Is this your first year as a steward?

This would be funny if I didn't know you were serious. You sound just like every other UP$ sup I have ever known. I'm also guessing your integrity is right in line with them.

by the way congrats on promoting a white female to diversify all the white males running your union local. I guess you believe in fighting for the working man as long as he is not a non-white trying to run your union local.

Careful now, you wouldn't want to come across as a bigot would you? What difference does it make to you who runs a local union that you are NOT a member of?

 

[tieguy]

Careful now, you wouldn't want to come across as a bigot would you? What difference does it make to you who runs a local union that you are NOT a member of?

thats often the response I recieve when I bring up something that is a sore point.

I'm not sure how you would possibly accuse me of bigotry with such a comment unless you meant reverse bigotry. My point is that while you union leaders claim to be fighting for fair play and the working man the teamsters union as a whole often discriminates against the person of color and females when electing their leaders. Some locals are more progressive then others many are run by a bunch of good ole white boys.

 

[Lobofan5]

Tie, you act like it is absolutely impossible for a sup to put a pkg in the wrong truck, why is he loading trucks in the first place if a preloader is already assigned to those trucks (gee, let me count the ways) Sups make mistakes too and I am sure you would have to pull teeth to get him/her to admit it. I remember a part-time sup would run around like a chicken without a head at the end of the night grabbing airs off the belt and putting them in the backs of the trucks, who knows if he put those airs in the right trucks? Those same preloaders on his belt were in the office the next day for off-routes and buried airs. Also used to see drivers "stocking their shelves" with air envelopes to deliver with the ground, if he delivers it late and there is a problem then he could easily say it was the preloader who buried the air. What I am saying Tie, is unless you have absolute proof a preloader buried an air or misloaded how on earth can you discipline?? Are the rules of the judicial system different when we walk through the doors of UPS???
As for us folks generally doing everything to avoid taking responsibility for our mistakes, I've been at UPS for over 19 years and can't remember the last time a sup told me he/she made a mistake.

I had a fill in driver a few weeks ago deliver 4 late airs and put 'found in load' in the board. He may have possibly had a remote argument however he seemed to have 'found' them at 10:31, 10:38 and 10:42. Not only would I not sign.. I made them take them off my record..that's crap wherever you are.

It's not a 'responsibility' thing tie. I'll stand up and say I'm wrong..when I ACTUALLY am.

 

[westsideworma]

I had a fill in driver a few weeks ago deliver 4 late airs and put 'found in load' in the board. He may have possibly had a remote argument however he seemed to have 'found' them at 10:31, 10:38 and 10:42. Not only would I not sign.. I made them take them off my record..that's crap wherever you are.

It's not a 'responsibility' thing tie. I'll stand up and say I'm wrong..when I ACTUALLY am.

You're right, that is crap, when I loaded I had a day like that before, I actually talked to the driver about it because I noticed he was really heavy on airs and showed up late that day. I was like don't pin that on me again. I always leave your airs out for you to sort (some go to a downtown air driver). After that I never signed anything they gave me to sign save for hazmat certification. Why? because its crap, with all the last minute add/cuts (that may or may not get done) unless my trucks are locked and guarded after I leave then how am I supposed to know it was my fault?

Though my personal favorite is now we PAL airs to shelves (seq #5432 or something like that for example)....isn't the purpose of having a section devoted to air (save for the RDR/RDL positions as those are usually the first stops anyways) is so that its all together and can easily be sorted through? Why would the gods of PAS do that, especially since the majority of drivers HATE digging through shelves for it. Seasoned preloaders may know to keep it prominent if loaded there, but newbies, even if instructed won't remember for a bit at first resulting in errors charged to them when they were just following the methods.

Now that I'm a supe, I've seen drivers throw packages on other cars, supes, managers and other hourlies toss packages on the end of cars etc that may or may not go there and I can't blame my loaders for not signing anything, I didn't either (though the fact that they know I never signed anything while a loader doesn't help I bet). I'm not saying we're out to get people, but I'm not saying all of us are exactly trustworthy either (nothing you don't already know). Its too bad because there are a lot of great people in management but there are a lot of snakes too...however that works for hourlies as well. If we stopped butting heads so often and worked together for once we might actually get closer to achieving the near impossible results that are expected from far above us. Granted the only benefits of that will be higher production numbers next year...hmm maybe theres a reason things are the way they are lol

 

[trplnkl]

thats often the response I recieve when I bring up something that is a sore point.

I'm not sure how you would possibly accuse me of bigotry with such a comment unless you meant reverse bigotry. My point is that while you union leaders claim to be fighting for fair play and the working man the teamsters union as a whole often discriminates against the person of color and females when electing their leaders. Some locals are more progressive then others many are run by a bunch of good ole white boys.

I never accused you of being a bigot, I inferred that you were getting close to bigotry in your statement. How is the teamsters discriminating against females and "persons of color"? Just because no one of those descriptions have ever been ELECTED? These are not appointed positions. Of all the ballots I have received in the last twenty years I have never seen(or recognized as such) a womans name on a ballot and would never know if a "person of color" was on the ballot. The election process is done by vote, people tend to for for names they know and trust. This gives incumbents an advantage. I have very little knowledge of what goes on in other locals and it's really none of my business. Or your's for that matter.

 

[trplnkl]

IMO, that's one of the big down falls of the PAS, it takes "thinking" away from the loaders. They are told to load ONLY by the PALS, period, end of story. If PAS puts a NDA in section 6000, that really should not be a service failure for driver or loader.
In our building you can get away with calling the center manager a dirty lowdown goodfornuttin critter to his/her face, before you can get away with saying PAS, PAL, or their younger brother ED are less than perfect, even when you have the proof in your hand. Where I do blame the loader is when a package with a pals that reads 1000-1005 and is loaded behind 1950. In my books that is a misload.

 

[brazenbrown]

IMO, that's one of the big down falls of the PAS, it takes "thinking" away from the loaders. They are told to load ONLY by the PALS, period, end of story. If PAS puts a NDA in section 6000, that really should not be a service failure for driver or loader.

In our building the preloader is also to verify the level of service and check for double labels, oh yeah remember the good old method of doing a six sided check. That's where they can use their extra "thinking" powers to do a better job. So, yes it is a service failure, I certainly think the customer would think so if it's not delivered on time.

In our building you can get away with calling the center manager a dirty lowdown goodfornuttin critter to his/her face, before you can get away with saying PAS, PAL, or their younger brother ED are less than perfect, even when you have the proof in your hand.

I see respect runs high in your neck of the woods.

I get labels that are messed up all the time, we know when the human element and computers are involved there will be mistakes it's trying to fix them and keep them from happening again where we can help. I bring any bad pals to the dispatch sup and he usually corrects them, if he forgets I remind him and it makes my life a lot easier..

Where I do blame the loader is when a package with a pals that reads 1000-1005 and is loaded behind 1950. In my books that is a misload.

That's for sure! I guess I'm lucky cause I have a good loader and when he does make mistakes I'll talk to him, besides he liked the bottle of Jack I got him for a Christmas tip!

 

[trplnkl]

In our building the preloader is also to verify the level of service and check for double labels, oh yeah remember the good old method of doing a six sided check. That's where they can use their extra "thinking" powers to do a better job. So, yes it is a service failure, I certainly think the customer would think so if it's not delivered on time.

That's the way it should be alright, but the fact is (in our ctr) the preloaders are not trained properly nor do the sups do enough follow up. When pals first started here they put in a "three dot method" to insure that a package with a bad pals didn't get loaded. The loader would put a red dot beside the shipping label, the pals, and the service level number on the SL. Pretty simple, however I can't tell you the number of times I would have packages with different town names on pals vs. SL yet had the dots. This is a clear pattern of job neglect and poor supervision NOT just something that happens from time to time.
Anytime a package is not delivered as scheduled, that's a service failure. I never said it should not be considered otherwise. My issue is who gets blamed for it.

I see respect runs high in your neck of the woods.

In my neck of the woods people get respect when they EARN it. and don't get so uptight over an example. I would never call my center manager that, to his face. My point was that you can't say anything bad about the pals, ed, dead system without drawing a fury from management personnel.

I get labels that are messed up all the time, we know when the human element and computers are involved there will be mistakes it's trying to fix them and keep them from happening again where we can help. I bring any bad pals to the dispatch sup and he usually corrects them, if he forgets I remind him and it makes my life a lot easier..

There have been times that I have turned in the same messed up plas as many as ten times(seriously, no exaggeration), on number 11 I give up.

That's for sure! I guess I'm lucky cause I have a good loader and when he does make mistakes I'll talk to him, besides he liked the bottle of Jack I got him for a Christmas tip!

Here that would qualify you as Mr. Lucky.I am truly happy for you. IMO, one of our biggest problems on loaders is that you may have four or five different loaders in a given week. Why they move them around so much is beyond me.

 

[Fnix]

We have people so untrained in my building it is up to us an hourlies to train our fellow new hires. Some kid has been here a month and doesn't know how to use a tapegun; though not entirely managements fault. I am teaching him on Monday. We have supes who have never unloaded or loaded.

PT Supervisors are useless. They dont scare anyone, nobody listens to them, they make stupid decisions because they have never done the actual work, and they waste company money. So many times do I have to correct my PT supes and they always come to me for advice. I tell them to pay me an extra $500 a month and I'll be glad too, until then it's up to them to get yelled at and make decisions.

 

[pkgdriver]

How long is this tape gun training going to take?

LOL

 

[Fnix]

How long is this tape gun training going to take?

LOL

As long as he makes it.