New Orleans

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tieguy

Guest
"most of your questions don't deserve an wnswer, but this one, I'll take a shot at:
I have said it before and I will say it again. The president and all the players at fema were in place and have experienced many hurricane events last year. What is different with this event this year.
Answer---An election"

You totally missed it. Fema is in place susan. same crew as last year. You didnt see all the crying from florida. You didn't see it from Mississippi. Whats wrong with Louisianna? Think girl think. It aint bush, it aint fema , it aint the military. Look at those 205 buses for your first clue. better yet look at those 205 submerged buses for your first clue.
 
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tieguy

Guest
Ok you won't answer the question. The only diferrence is the local government. They bungled this thing in every way possible. When gangs were shooting up the streets of new orleans the governor was worried about adding to many military troops. The governor wanted to send troops in without the authority to enforce the laws. Meanwhile rome burned........
 
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susiedriver

Guest
tie,

The governor invoked the Stafford Act on Friday, Aug 26. The mayor of NOLA issued mandatory evacuation Saturday, August 27. Transportation was provided to shelters by the local gov't. This is all well documented on nola.com.

The bus picture was taken when? After the mandatory evacuation? Who was going to drive them? Certainly not the feds. They were asked for assistance two days before the storm hit. They still weren't there two days after. The feds left them to dangle in the wind, along with thousands who relied on their government to help them through the catastrophe that unfolded.

Read nola.com. The archives are all there, with the warnings, the flood maps, the invocation of the Stafford Act, the pleas for evacuation, everything. Then tell me that our federal government did all they could to protect its citizens.
 
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tieguy

Guest
Suzie the drivers that were driving buses before sunday could have driven them. City employees all of them. This is the absolute sadest part of this whole affair. The mayor had the means to evacuate the citizens of new orleans but dropped the ball. Bigtime.Suzie I am having a hard time understanding why you have been so quick to accuse everyone else but yet continue to defend what has to be the biggest snafu of this whole sordid affair?

And again point 2 which you did not answer. Why has the state of mississippi been able to lick its wounds and move on so quickly while louisianna basically laid down in the streets and threw a temper tantrum. If Bush, Brown and FEMA are so screwed up what made them so much more effective in the state of Mississippi and florida?
 
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over9five

Guest
"...Suzie does find many interesting links. Most are from less than credible sources."

Thank God someone else sees this! Anyone who has ANY point at all to make can find a source to support them. Reminds me of when she used a HCI (Handgun Control, Inc) site to give us the "truth" about gun ownership!

I only wish I had the vast amount of free time that she obviously has to find opposing sites. Susie, what do you actually do?
 
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tieguy

Guest
By the way Suzie I should answer your point.Yes the mayor and the governor did invoke variousl acts. The problem as I see it is they didn't take any action to enforce it. The mandatory evacuation that was not enforced is one example.

Another example is the national guard issue. The gov knew she had a major storm headed her way. She could have requested the 40,000 national guard troops immediately. Why didn't she? Thats her job to request those troops. It has never been the presidents or FEMAs to force them down her throat.
 
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air_upser

Guest
I'll probably regret getting into the middle of this battle between Susie and well...everybody else. Anyway, in my opinion you are all partially right and partially wrong.
Can the Fed do a better job? I think everyone can agree they can. Does the fault lie with Bush? I don't think all the facts are known yet to say. Does FEMA need an anema? Probably Does the fault lie with State and Local government as well? I think so.

In response to the last post, here is the text from the evacuation order:
NOW, THEREFORE, I, as the Mayor of the City of New Orleans, pursuant to the authority granted by La. Rev. Stat. 29:727, do hereby promulgate and issue the following orders, which shall be effective immediately and which shall remain in effect until the earlier of five days following the date of this issuance or the declaration by the Governor that the State of Emergency no longer exists:

1. A mandatory evacuation order is hereby called for all of the Parish of Orleans, with only the following exceptions: essential personnel of the United States of America, State of Louisiana and City of New Orleans; essential personnel of regulated utilities and mass transportation services; essential personnel of hospitals and their patients; essential personnel of the media; essential personnel of the Orleans Parish Criminal Sheriffs Office and its inmates and essential personnel of operating hotels and their patrons. Unless covered by one of the aforementioned exceptions, every person is hereby ordered to immediately evacuate the City of New Orleans or, if no other alternative is available, to immediately move to one of the facilities within the City that will be designated as refuges of last resort.

2. In order to effectuate the mandatory evacuation, at the direction of the Mayor, the Chief Administrative Officer, the Director of Homeland Security for the City of New Orleans or any member of the New Orleans Police Department, the City may commandeer any private property, including, but not limited to, buildings that may be designated as refuges of last resort and vehicles that may be used to transport people out the area.

I'm not a lawyer, but from my interpretation it gave local officials the power to use any vehicle they wanted to get people to shelters or out of the city. What is the interpretation of "essential"? Well, I'd say every one of the city's bus drivers, but I guess they leave that up to your bosses interpretation.

side note- Imagine UPS saying "only essential personel have to stay late to deliver packages" Heck, we'd all be staying late.

Anyway, the city could have done more to evacuate people. I also read an article that said people should bring 3 days worth of food and water to the shelter.

Also, the governor could have probably called up the national guard to help with evacuations too. Don't know that for a fact. (I'm sure someone will post it for me

Whatever your opinion is of the initial response to the disaster, there will be plenty of time to review the facts and make the neccessary changes so we can respond better to the next one. And there will be one....Earthquake in California, terrorist attack(love the security at our borders and sea-cargo terminals!) or Hurricane. At this moment, we need to continue doing what we can in the relief effort.

We are a stong Nation with strong individual beliefs (as seen on browncafe!). That is one of the greatest freedoms we take for granted...the right to speak our mind, even if it's to criticize the Government. Of course Rod will probably say it's the right to bear arms Peace everybody.

Make a difference. Treat others as you want to be treated yourself. And in recognition of ok2bclever- Life is too short.
 
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tieguy

Guest
"tie,
you should really learn to read. Crappie said NOLA was settled by the Spanish first."

Suzie I think you need to learn to read. I was not disagreeing with Crappie I was disagreeing with you specifically. By the way looks like we were all wrong. Native Americans were the first to settle the present site. I wonder if they practiced geopolitics at the time.
 
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sendagain6160

Guest
Susiedriver...I really do respect your opinions, but feel like you are way out in left field this time.Have you ever heard of the chain of command?What happened to the orders of the mayor of N.O to evacuate immediately?He definitey had all the necessary tools to get more people out of the city.I have been there and saw the devastation and it breaks my heart, but how do you make people leave their home if they refuse?The mayor told these people to leave and so many refused.Even today over a week later there are some that are staying put after being told that they are in danger.Lets all pull together on this and quit pointing fingers.I assure you there are more like these on the way.
 
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over9five

Guest
"Have you ever heard of the chain of command?What happened to the orders of the mayor of N.O to evacuate immediately?"

NO!! How can she spew her hatred for our President with logic like this??!! I can sum up her entire 183 posts in one sentence. "I hate Bush".
 
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ok2bclever

Guest
I certainly don't believe the local government did all that it could have, should have by any means, but the national government in the form of FEMA failed in it's primary duties to the nation in regards to New Orleans and needs to be held accountable so this does not happen next time and between terrorists and the likelihood that global warming is just going to continue to accelerate the possibility of more frequent and more powerful storms such as Katrina and the aforementioned major earthquake possibities of the San Andreas fault on the west coast, there will be a next time.

FEMA was obviously not ready and apparently never anticipated the studied, predicted levee failures which is the true source and difference between the far more fatal conditions in New Orleans compared to the referenced harder wind hit state of Mississippi and what that would do to the known remaining citizens and stranded tourists in New Orleans that were stranded in the designated shelters such as the Superdome and the Convention Center (that Brownie apparently was unaware of), hospitals, nursing homes, etc.

There were idiots that wouldn't leave (there still are a bunch of those and that just seems like evolution in action to me as they die), but that shouldn't be used as a smoke screen for the fact that there were thousands upon thousands that couldn't leave because the evacuation plans were never made functional for them, such as that infamous parking lot of submerged buses.

PS- What's this "we were all wrong" tie?

And I quote "If you discount the native Americans in the area".
 
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tieguy

Guest
I don't know if FEMA had a plan for levees breaking or not. Certainly it was common knowledge that a) the levees could break or B) the lake and Mississippi waters could overflow the levees. Either result would be and has been horrific.

Perhaps FEMAs role should be expanded to running the evacuation plan before the storm hits. Ultimately the point I think this event will focus on will be the coordination of the three levels of government. There are clear signs that even today those three levels are not working together. Some political purist may well make the argument that this power has to remain in the hands of the state. The federal government will not be happy if they are taking the heat for issues controlled by the state. This issue would not have gotten so much attention if the national guard had been planted around the dome and convention center by wed of last week. In fact it may have been a non-issue.

P.S. Susie referencing the link you posted previously , I think from meet the press. It was reported today that a local pastor brought buses and tried to evacuate that nursing home before the storm hit. The owner of the home declined the offer decided to ride it out and unfortunately paid the price for that decision along with 8 patrons. Very sad turn of events that again illustrates the need for a good firm evacuation plan.

Think about this why not put your attention on evacuation? The option is trying to rescue all those people when you have lost power, lost facilities and may be dealing with flooding issues. It seems like a no brainer. I personally think the need for an ironclad evacuation plan is what we need to learn from this mess.
 
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dannyboy

Guest
I guess Bush the elder summed it up the best when he and Clinton were on the news. He said his son has been the recipient of much blame, and stated he had the broad shoulders to take the critisism. That came with the Job.

Then of course Bill had to do his cheesy "well we need to put together a commission like the 9-11 commission to investigate"

Two things here that come to mind.

One, Susie would probably wet her pants if someone the calliber of Bill were at the helm for these disasters. Problem is he would have been in the oval office geting the oval job instead of having kids reading to him.

Secondly, there is the issue of states rights. Just like individual rights they are protected by our constitution. The way things are currently run, the state can ask for or refuse federal help. That is up to the governor of that state.

It would be just like those people that stayed behind. Many refused to leave, and still many, upwards of more than 10,000, refuse even now. They could get out, but they refuse.

IF you refuse to take help when offered, or refuse to ask for help when it is appropriate, how can that be the fault of those offering or able to help.

But then again, Susie has her private agenda and is shamefully using the disaster in New ORleans for a soapbox.

And of course she IS an very angry woman.

To even respond to her off the wall posts only gives her the legitimacy she so desperatly seeks.

d
 
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moreluck

Guest
I watched Brit Hume's show on Fox News and 2 guys, one was Mort Kondracke and the other was Fred Barnes, said that Gov. Blanco DID NOT let the Red Cross enter New Orleans (initially). The Red Cross is a "first responder" Big mistake on the guv's part.

You can't cry about help if you are not letting people come in. The governor's plan for the day after was to have a day of prayer. Lovely thought, but not an efficient way to rescue folks.
 
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susiedriver

Guest
Sure is lonely here. For those of you that don't have reading comprehension difficulties, you may be interested in what more and more people are saying.

From the Star-Tribune:
If the human misery that followed Hurricane Katrina has been shocking and painful, the federal government's shifting explanations for its needless severity have been utterly shameful.

That assessment is not part of some political, postdisaster "blame game," but an insistence that accountability for preparing for and responding to a major U.S. disaster be placed squarely where it belongs: the federal government and its emergency-response program, FEMA.

The Bush administration's attempts to shift accountability elsewhere -- first to the victims stuck in New Orleans for not leaving, later to Louisiana officials and "bureaucrats" -- are an appalling use of political tactics in the highly inappropriate realm of human suffering and pain, of lives saved and lives lost.

That realm requires that officials accept responsibility, express true and deep understanding of the dislocation and misery being experienced, and redouble efforts to make up for a sickeningly bungled start.

While efforts have been redoubled, effectiveness is still in question; genuine, deep understanding hasn't been apparent despite two presidential visits to the area. And accountability? Accepting it would involve, at the least, making clear that critical changes will be made, and rolling appropriate heads at FEMA and its umbrella, the Department of Homeland Security.

Instead, the White House organized a PR effort directed by political adviser Karl Rove, master of political attack-machine tactics. The New York Times reported Monday that the administration, alarmed at the potential political fallout of its poor performance, regrouped over the weekend and mapped out its strategy. The plan has rolled out exactly as the Times' report said it would:

Administration officials appearing in public have downplayed the need to quickly assess failures, and have tried instead to discuss what's being done now. To the extent that they -- and allies who appear or write in their stead -- do discuss failures, it is to point the finger at local and state officials or "bureaucrats." Officials doing just that include Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff, whose accountability is right up there with FEMA director Michael Brown's.

These tactics are beyond outrageous. No state, no locality can take the lead in dealing with an emergency like Katrina. That's why FEMA was created. That is why Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco declared a state of emergency on Friday, Aug. 26, when Katrina was a Category 2 hurricane. It is why the Gulf Coast states requested help from the Pentagon that same day.

It is why the next day, as Katrina was upgraded to Category 3, Blanco asked President Bush to declare a federal state of emergency in Louisiana. It was declared. Thus FEMA had full authority and responsibility from the White House "to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency."

Over the following week the world watched as an even more powerful Katrina hit on Monday and victims pitifully waited for help without adequate (or often any) food, health care or water. Meager boats rescued a few as doctors pleaded for aid, as newscasters struggled to share the story -- and as ships, trucks and outside aid waited, and waited, for approval to help, frequently thwarted, incredibly, by FEMA.

Exactly what went wrong, in both the planning and the response, must be assessed in short order. The ability of the United States to prepare for and respond to disaster -- whatever the origin -- is vital to its security. No less, it is critical to America's ability to honor its shared values, which include attending to the poor, the sick, the vulnerable -- the very people who suffered most from the government's incompetence last week. Yet the White House delays the reckoning while pointing fingers at others.

Incompetence is bad enough; not taking responsibility for it is shameful. Blaming it on others is a national disgrace.
 
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tieguy

Guest
I see suzie is still posting BS from biased sources.

A couple of points. My apology for not having some unknown web page to reference as fact:

I saw Blanco interviewed on Fox last night. The mayors evacuation order came up. Blanco said it was no good until she approved it. Another clear sign that those two are not on the same page and that Blanco is on some type of power trip. What governor in their right mind would not have approved an evacuation order generated for New Orleans over a week and a half ago.

Point two - Suzie keeps excusing new orleans not being evacuated because the residents were too poor to own a vehicle they could drive out. I'm sure there is a percentage of victims that fit that description however it struck me as a funny statement to make. What do you see when you see these boat patrols in norla? I see endless rows of cars submerged in water on both sides of the street. Someone owns these cars that chose not to evacuate.
 
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moreluck

Guest
ALL TV news is biased (one way or the other)....I don't care which ones you mention.

Susie can glean what she wants to hear and someone else can glean what they want to hear.

Sort through all the debris thrown at us daily and sift through the garbage.....then form your opinion.

My opinion still is there were LOCAL mistakes made and that's where the trouble started.

How many of those people that stayed behind could've gone to the Dome if there was an important sports event or a rap concert? Of course I don't include the elderly and infirm.
 
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tieguy

Guest
Actually Suzie a video link of the governor herself saying the evacuation order is no good until she approves it. The only difference is no one else has so far chosen to show it because it does not fit their agenda.

Is there bias in the media? you bet?

Press conference this morning. CNN shows the democratic members of congress while fox shows the republicans having a press conference at the same time. So which one was biased?
 
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