New Orleans

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susiedriver

Guest
http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/thedebate/2005/09/facts_and_rumor.html#more
By Emile Messner
Facts and Rumors: Federal Power in a State of Emergency

First, a note to all the Debaters: Ordinarily, Wednesday would mark the beginning of a new week for The Debate -- it's the day a fresh topic would be introduced for discussion until the following Tuesday. But this is no ordinary week. So we're bending the rules to make room for a few more days of Hurricane Katrina, and we'll introduce next week's issue, the Roberts nomination, on Monday -- just in time for the start of his hearings.

But for now, we're still talking about the hurricane, and all the false assertions that have been floating around with regard to who had the power to do what in Louisiana have got to be put to rest. Please allow me to use the text of federal laws and some other reputable sources in order to set the record straight. (My very basic conclusions based on those facts appear in parenthesis.)

Fact: Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declared a State of Emergency for her state on Friday, Aug. 26. Full disclosure: The Post reported last week -- erroneously, it turned out -- that Louisiana had not issued such a declaration. A correction was published on Sept. 5.

Fact: President Bush declared a State of Emergency the next day Saturday before Hurricane Katrina hit.

Fact: Presidential declarations of emergency are made after "the governor of the impacted state, based on finding that the disaster is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the ability of the state and affected local jurisdictions."

(This suggests Blanco must have asked Bush to declare a State of Emergency, and Bush wisely did.)

Fact: A declaration of emergency "unleash[es] the support of any or all of 27 federal agencies. It also authorizes reimbursement of emergency work, such as debris removal and emergency protective measures."

Fact: There is a FEMA program called the National Urban Search and Rescue Response System (US&R) -- now part of the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate (EP&R) of the Department of Homeland Security. According to federal legislation, it "provides specialized lifesaving assistance during major disasters or emergencies that the President declares under the Stafford Act. US&R operational activities include locating, extricating and providing on-site medical treatment to victims trapped in collapsed structures, victims of weapons of mass destruction events, and when assigned, performing incident command or other operational activities."

(I think we can all agree that such teams would have been immensely helpful on the two to three days immediately following the hurricane. The Coast Guard did a great job, it would seem, of airlifting people out of drowning homes very soon after the flooding happened, and New Orleans police devoted a great deal of time that to performing search and rescue as well. Yes, some deserted, but others stayed and did everything they could to help the city and its residents recover. Perhaps if more search and rescue professionals had been sent in in the immediate aftermath, the police could have spent that time maintaining order in the city.)

Fact: In the Rules and Regulations section of the US&R legislation, "emergency " is defined as "any occasion or instance for which, in the determination of the President, Federal assistance is needed to supplement State and local efforts and capabilities to save lives and to protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in any part of the United States."

Fact: In the supplementary information for the National Urban Search and Rescue Response System legislation, it says (I've taken out some of the extraneous numbers and some unnecessary phrases for ease of reading, but the meaning is unchanged):


Section 303 of the Stafford Act authorizes the President of the United States to form emergency support teams of Federal personnel to be deployed in an area affected by a major disaster or emergency. The President delegated this function to the Director of the FEMA under Executive Order 12148. Under E.O. 13286 of February 28, 2003, the President amended E.O. 12148 to transfer the FEMA Director's delegated authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security, and under Homeland Security Delegation No. 9100, delegated the Secretary's authority under Title V of the Homeland Security Act of 2002, which includes the Stafford Act, to the Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response (EP&R).

Fact: The Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response is Michael Brown.

(So, EP&R director -- the head of FEMA, the guy the New Orleans Times Picayune said should "especially" be fired -- had the authority to dispatch specialized rescue squads right away. Where were they? Why didn't the president, under whose direction the Department of Homeland Security ultimately falls, insist on getting those teams on the ground -- or in the air -- as soon as the levees were breached and the flooding began?)

In 1995, the Washington Monthly wrote about FEMA's miraculous turnaround after its abysmal performance dealing with Hurricane Andrew. In that story was this tidbit from Jeffrey Itell, who conducted a massive study of FEMA's operations, which uncovered that FEMA had extensive powers according to the Stafford Act that, to everyone's detriment, it was not exercising:


We found that without state requests, FEMA could assess the catastrophic area, assess what assistance the state needed, start mobilizing that relief, present its recommendations to the governor, and, if necessary get in the governor's face to force the issue of accepting federal help.

This should all still apply -- unless the Department of Homeland Security nullified these common-sense FEMA powers when it subsumed the agency a couple years ago. (If it did, DHS has a lot of explaining to do.)

Again, that's without state requests. (This is not to say the the local authorities couldn't have done more. For starters, they could have taken into account the substantial number of poor Now Orleans residents who wouldn't have the means to evacuate. But they were right in the middle of it all, their resources overwhelmed, whereas the federal emergency management professionals are likely to have vastly more resources (how many helicopters did the New Orleans Police Department have? I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing not as many as the federal government.)

What's important to remember here is that misinformation is swirling, as is not unusual after unprecedented disasters. (David Brooks of the New York Times recalls the news accounts of [insert then-feared minority group here] cutting off the fingers of the dead in order to steal their wedding rings.)

Don't get me wrong, the Debate loves and encourages a wide variety of opinions. But many opinions you'll hear from pundits on both sides of the aisle are based on false assertions. Before buying into one of these logical-but-inaccurate arguments -- many of which probably originated in a spin machine belonging to someone or another -- it makes sense to check that the facts are solid.
 
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tieguy

Guest
"A video link from MSNBC is more biased than Fox?
You are a piece of work."

Suzie for some reason it appears you missed my points. Let me rephrase for you. If you want I could post them on a blog somewhere so you could be sure to read it.

I physically saw the governor ( Blanco ) interviewed. When asked about the evacuation order for new orleans she said she had not approved it. She also said it was no good until approved by her. Keep in mind I physically saw this. No freakazoid with purple hair and green eyebrows quoted her on a blog. She said this live on TV.

1) why would any governor not approve an evacuation of New Orleans?

2) Why would any governor admit to not approving an evacuation if not on some type of power trip?

Suzie think about the significance of this statement. If Governor Blanco actually resisted the mayors efforts to evacuate then her actions may actually border on criminal negligence.
 
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tieguy

Guest
"(I think we can all agree that such teams would have been immensely helpful on the two to three days immediately following the hurricane."

Day 1 the hurricane. Day two the wall breaks ( not really a levee from what I have been told?)
Suzie do you know for sure that those teams were not in the city immediately after the storm? I'm pretty sure I saw new clips (at the time) of various teams including the coast guard, local officials, white water rescue teams and yes even navy seals.
 
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tieguy

Guest
Suzie,

All of your legal regulatory information is wonderfull. Your argument now appears to be that the federal government should have somehow overcome the incompetence of local government and had the help in place? They should have barged in and forced the governor to take federal help? Hell why even have a governor then?This really sounds like another attempt on your part to absolve local government of all accountability and to stick it to Bush again?
 
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susiedriver

Guest
tie,

Isn't that what I said days ago? "Dereliction of duty", was the phrase you objected to. Isn't that what you're saying now?

I never identified who I thought should be charged. You say Blanco, perhaps; but certainly Brown, perhaps Chertoff, remotely even Nagin, though I think that would be a stretch, given the little resources he had at his disposal. There are scant facts available at this time. Certainly someone dropped the ball and should stand up and admit it.

The fact is, the Stafford Act had been envoked, and that changes the entire ball game.

Do try to read the article from the WaPo. It lays out undeniable facts in a clear order.

Like Bush said on 8-28:
Yesterday, I signed a disaster declaration for the state of Louisiana, and this morning I signed a disaster declaration for the state of Mississippi. These declarations will allow federal agencies to coordinate all disaster relief efforts with state and local officials. We will do everything in our power to help the people in the communities affected by this storm.


The feds were in control before the storm hit, or so it would seem.
 
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wkmac

Guest
OK2BC,
Well said in your most recent post. What happened in NO at present is probably a result of decades but more importantly when the balloon went up the various gov't agencies whether city, state or Fed just flat failed in the initial stages. Whether the last few days to week are considered any better is a personal decision but the lost of life and property are mind boggling to say the least. One other thing that is becoming more clear to me is that at least in one case it wasn't the levee itself that failed but rather the seawall on top of it. Who built, authorized and engineered to what specs. in the days ahead will be worthwhile questions to ask.

afups,
As to Al Gore doing better that would probably depend more on your political point of view than anything else but realistically I think it would not have mattered. Much of what is coming to light about NO potential for disaster has been known for years and years, not so much since Bush came to office. This doesn't let Bush off the hook but he's not the sole source of blame either.

It was the agency bureacracies that failed. Washington is now engaged in a massive finger pointing exercise among itself and to be honest this is usually what happens in a room full of guilty people. They know the music will at any moment stop and there are not enough chairs for everyone so by pointing the finger it may just throw someone off guard long enough so that if the music does stop they've hopefully got a seat.

IMO this is a shining example of Statist failure and another good reason to think as an individual and prepare as best you can. I find it ironic that NO with a large gov't dependant population is having such difficulty gaining some footing and direction while the folks in Mississippi who have lost everything as well seem to be working together more and starting the process of rebuilding. These are far more independent minded folks but in times like this when forced into a more collective force and mindset they are able to get more done and accomplish surprising tasks rather than sitting on the hood of a flooded car and crying "Poor Poor Me, Save Me!" You know some things do float and you could have swam out to higher ground.

Yes OK2BC, I think it's fair but very tough to say that Katrina decided to cleanse the evolutionary gene pool.
 
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moreluck

Guest
"Yesterday, I signed a disaster declaration for the state of Louisiana, and this morning I signed a disaster declaration for the state of Mississippi. These declarations will allow federal agencies to coordinate all disaster relief efforts with state and local officials. We will do everything in our power to help the people in the communities affected by this storm."

Susie.....the governor wouldn't let them act!!! I will repeat.....The governor refused them entrance into N.O.
 
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susiedriver

Guest
The Stafford Act trumps everything.

Stick a pitchfork in Blanco, she's done.

The buck doesn't stop with Blanco, though.

This is a failure of our government to protect us. I couldn't care less if they were republican or democrat. They have been passing the buck for twenty some years. Most of those had republican presidents, btw.

Anyway, moreluck, you may be interested in this article by another female, I found it to be extremely well written: http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/losing-new-orleans/Content?oid=868251
 
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wily_old_vet

Guest
susie-Found a interesting article in the Washington Post called "Money Flowed to Questionable Projects". I tried to paste a link to www.washingtonpost.com but not computer literate enough to be able to do it. What makes the article so interesting is that just a short while ago Sen. Landrieux castigated Pres. Bush on the Senate floor about not knowing more about the levee situation. Turns out this administration in the 5 years in office has authorized 1.9 billion dollars to the Corps of Engineers which is more than went to second place California at 1.4 Billion. It is also more than was authorized during the entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. Since you enjoy reading hope you take the time to read this.
Also was reported on Fox News last night that the Red Cross was in place to bring food and water into the city but was told no by the LOUISIANA Dept. of Homeland Defense. This info was gathered by a reporter calling the Red Cross and ask why they didn't come in immediately.
Susie, maybe you can tell me how to paste links into the text. Thats a serious request.
 
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moreluck

Guest
UPS Joins Louisiana Emergency Relief Team
Thursday September 8, 3:35 pm ET
UPS Accelerates Movement of Hurricane Relief Supplies, Launches `Operation Expedite Help' For La., Miss., Ala.


ATLANTA--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 8, 2005--UPS (NYSE:UPS - News) today announced it had begun working directly with the governors of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama to support the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
In Louisiana, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco has organized a team to help direct the state's emergency relief effort. UPS is supporting the distribution and logistics efforts of that team.

In consultation with Gov. Blanco and also with Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, UPS has placed individual liaison officers at the command of the state governments. Two hurricane relief officers have been assigned to each of the two states, one to the governor and a second to the top Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) official in the state. These UPS managers will remain accessible at all time to ensure that any emergency movement of food or supplies is handled as promptly as possible.

In Alabama, where damage from the hurricane was less widespread, UPS nonetheless is working with Gov. Bob Riley to ensure that any transportation needs are met.

As of Thursday, UPS already had moved more than 4 million pounds, or 2,000 tons, of supplies for the relief effort.

"UPS is pledging its people and equipment to assist the states as part of what we call Operation Expedite Help," noted Mike Eskew, UPS's chairman and CEO. "Katrina has stretched the resources of every local, state and federal agency. The business community can play an important role in the relief effort and that's why UPS has established Operation Expedite Help.

"We've all got to work together to help the residents of these areas recover and rebuild," Eskew continued. "UPS is working hard to assist its own employees and is pledging its vehicles, airplanes, people and expertise to assist the states, just as we have already done with FEMA."

Over the past 10 days, UPS has transported more than 4 million pounds of relief supplies for federal, state and private relief organizations responding to the devastation of Hurricane Katrina. The effort, with starting points ranging from California to Vermont, has involved both air and ground movements and focused primarily on the transportation of water, medicine, baby formula, non-perishable food items, emergency supplies and paper goods.

Beyond those items, UPS also has moved a mobile kitchen for the U.S. Park Police; a mobile hospital from Reno, Nev., to New Orleans, and child-sized cots from California to Dallas. The company now is arranging the move of a mobile water treatment system from Johannesburg, South Africa, to Gulfport, Miss.

UPS Supply Chain Solutions, UPS's logistics arm, also has been asked to assist the Salvation Army in setting up a new distribution center for hurricane relief outside Atlanta.

UPS is the world's largest package delivery company and a global leader in supply chain services, offering an extensive range of options for synchronizing the movement of goods, information and funds. Headquartered in Atlanta, Ga., UPS serves more than 200 countries and territories worldwide. UPS's stock trades on the New York Stock Exchange (UPS) and the company can be found on the Web at UPS.com.
 
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susiedriver

Guest
That's great news, moreluck.

Will they put out a call to retirees to help out? I think I could wrangle a few to 'drive south' (john hiatt reference).
 
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tieguy

Guest
"Yes OK2BC, I think it's fair but very tough to say that Katrina decided to cleanse the evolutionary gene pool."

my my my. What a provocative statement. Another thought along that line. We are now engaged in a social experiment of sorts. Many who were relegated to a life of poverty in norleans slums will now be relocated to some other part of the country. Adopted by some caring family and in a sense mentored by some family who chances are may be sitting on a higher plane finacially / economically. I would love to see someone do a study of those relocated families 10 to 15 years down the road to see how they turn out. Do these relocated families stay where they were moved or return to norleans. Do they advance economically or return to their poverty roots.
 
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tieguy

Guest
The Stafford Act trumps everything.


Suzie they can sign all the damn acts they want to but the fact remains that city, state and fed ain't playing on the same team. You having the feds force their way in still does not get everyone playing on the same team. In fact its clear the feds did force their way in. As you watch the TV you clearly see examples where the coast guard and military conduct rescue operations seperate of the boat crews that are often organized by local government. The coordination of all resources is the key to a quick clean up of this mess. The fact they are not coordinated on one team means you end up using a lot more resources to accomplish the same task.

Meanwhile in Mississippi they are all working together and cleaning up. Leap years ahead of Lousianna.
 
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wily_old_vet

Guest
susie-first thanks for posting the link but I was asking you how to do it. Second about the graph. Yes the Engineers didn't get the amount they requested but rarely does anybody get everything they ask for. The money they did get was diverted to projects other than the levees.

Third I love your idea about UPS retirees getting involved in the logistics thing for the Salvation Army. I just filled out the form to become a volunteer for the Salvation Army and it would be great if my services could be used in this area. Who knows maybe we'd be working side by side.
 
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susiedriver

Guest
wily,

just copy, cut and paste a link. I have no idea what kind of computer you are on, so I can't give further instructions.

You might be suprised to find us working together. I'm willing to travel.
 
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wkmac

Guest
Hey susie,
Here's another piece written by a female if that is an important criteria in researching news and op-ed pieces. Having read a number of pieces by this author I had never given any thought in the past to her being female making it more or less valid but I'll try and keep that in mind in the future. I guess I was mistaken that I should judge the person on their own merits and principles and that gender, color, etc. really don't matter in the arena of thoughts and ideas. Thanks for correcting me from my ignorant ways! I'll do my best to be more sophisticated and modern in the future but it's really tough for neanderthals like me!

(Message edited by wkmac on September 09, 2005)
 
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rushfan

Guest
This is getting ridiculous!

I heard a new one that Bush blew up the Dikes in order to flood out new orleans. Yes they are called dikes like the ones in Holland.
 
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