Pas system

[brownmonster]

As a baseline driver I cover the A.M. section of 2 loops. Sequence 1 to 163 on one and sequence 1 to 40 in the other. Loops were set up to keep more business stops on the beginning of a loop and res on the P.M. side. How to you set up a DOL on to loops that run side by side. One in town and one partially rural. No logical computer generated way to do it. If I change the DOL to suit me what happens when a split comes off me or my route grows or splits. Now the stops don't line up with the rest of the loop and the other driver goes huh? I like the preload concept of PAS but not convinced about the driver side. I believe most drivers run their route the shortest way possible while still giving good service. What happened to the concept a few years back about drivers being allowed to be flexible for customer service?

 

[upsgirl23]

There is a feature in EDD, which allows the driver the flexibility to run a different section of his route, even if it is not at the top of the list. It's called point of return. We put it in because the drivers who originally tested this for us stated, sometimes when they are done airs, they might be at one end of their route or the other. They wanted the flexibility to start in a different area. It concerns me that it doesn't sound like the operations is using DPS/PAS/EDD to their fullest potential. What seems to be lacking, in my observation, is many don't take the time to make it right - not everyone, just some. As someone who has poured blood, sweat and tears into atleast one of these programs, and as a UPSer, it disappoints me. DPS/PAS/EDD are only as good as the people who are implementing the plan. The time has to be taken to work out the kinks, figure out how each route should be run from both the driver and supervisor's perspective. Is it going to be perfect from the start? Probably not, but if we keep working at it, within a couple of weeks, the driver and center can see some serious gains. The systems are win-win for everyone. We make service to our customers, UPS saves money, and the driver gets to go home at a decent time. What's wrong with that?

 

[tieguy]

"Tieguy, you know better, you should be able to sit down with your drivers and fix any bad streets and D.O.L. problems."

Now Mr. Feeder I didn't say I couldn't fix the problems myself. I was asking what the process was in his center to see if there really was one. I think your right on the money with your answer there has to be dialogue from both sides much as you hopefully experience in getting feeder runs written correctly.

 

[tieguy]

"What happened to the concept a few years back about drivers being allowed to be flexible for customer service?"

I think the concept is still there. At the same time I think feeders point about the cover driver is a good one. Between you and the sups in your center you folks have to get the loops worked out so anyone can step in and cover the route adequately. And again there will always be exceptions but if the loops are set up properly then the exceptions should be at a minimum. I think you agree with the overall concept of working smarter and not harder. Delivery has always been a job where you can run yourself ragged if you don't have a good setup.

 

[brownmonster]

I will go in with an open mind. Good thread, no raging or insults. Only the civil flow of information.

 

[ups79]

upsgirl23: dont get me wrong because I like the system, but your statement that drivers get to go home early is completely wrong. since getting
pas and
edd the drivers in our center who were running a certain number of stops are now running more with less time allowance. we are all getting home quite later than we were.

 

[dannyboy]

That too was the thought about relooping our center. Cut costs, cut miles, cut paid days. While I have not seen the cost figures, the miles are up, the paid days are through the roof, and customer satifaction is at an all time low. And the ERA's over the past 4 years have showed it. Funny thing is I asked about ours last week, and was told they needed to break the numbers down for our center. As soon as they get that done they will post our numbers. I didnt know it took UPS that long to handle numbers

d

 

[upsgirl23]

UPS79 - I agree. I'm field testing again in a building that is implementing PAS and EDD. It's a mess, but not because PAS/EDD aren't good systems. It's the people behind the plans. I did a mini study on PAS/EDD errors when we did the beta testing for EDD. I tracked 472 label errors - 400 were human error. Only 2% were system. The remainder were customer and/or other errors. I think the thread of my statement was that if the systems were implemented correctly, then the drivers should get to go home early along with servicing our customers and making money. I don't believe I said it was happening now, however, if that is what I inferred, I apologize. Implemented correctly, that is what those systems will accomplish. It would seem to be to be in everyone's interest to work out the kinks in their own buildings. I stand by my statements - DPS/PAS/EDD are supposed to accomplish everything I said - but, they are only as good as the people implenting the plans. If no one wants to do the grunt work, no one reaps the benefits.

And thank you for saying you like the systems. It's nice to not have someone tell me it stinks for a change.

 

[ups79]

we have had the system for several months now, I am telling you none of us are going home early. all that has happened is that low numbers and high numbers for dispatching have increased. i ask a part time supervisor about the target dispatch numbers and he said we aim to dispatch these numbers. my question to him was once in a while could you dispatch one stop over the low number instead of constantly dispatching one stop below the high number.

 

[ups79]

oh by the way the reason I like the system is because I spent considerable time with the individual working with are dol's to get my route right.

 

[dannyboy]

"could you dispatch one stop over the low number instead of constantly dispatching one stop below the high number."

My target range is 74-85. Dispatch is 100-130 every day. What are you whining about? I would love to have 84 stops a day, every day. I would get in at 5-530 every day, and give my UPS store pickup to someone else.

d

 

[dammor]

We understand the stop count here to be what it is. It's called the stop count because the pre-loaders stop counting. I know it's a tough job, but I would really like to ask my loader how many stops I have and not have him say,"I stopped counting at 60, or 80, or whatever."
When I was in a P10 they stopped counting at 120 and most days it turned into 150. It's hard to dispatch a center with stop counts that are not even close.

 

[local804]

Thats a funny one dammor, I feel the pain just like you.I like when you ask the loader how many stops are in the truck and he replies"What do you think is in the truck?"

 

[ups79]

dannyboy: i don't think i was whinning, i was only telling the truth as it happens in our center. maybe when you are 56 and have delivered packages for 25 years, you will surely whine getting off and on that truck 180 times a day.

 

[ups79]

DANNYBOY SORRY I JUST READ ON ANOTHER THREAD THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WITH THE COMPANY 30 YEARS. IS THERE ANY REASON WHY YOU HAVE NOT OPTED FOR RETIREMENT(NOT BEING A WISE xxx, JUST WONDERING WHY YOU GET IN AND OFF THAT TRUCK AT ALL.

 

[rd0127]

My husband is a manager in charge of implementing PAS in our district.
His team is just about to finish up with their 2nd installation. The biggest problem that they are having is getting the center management to help with the loops. They do not want to spend any time learning the system and helping the PAS team. The whole atmosphere at the current center is very negative, starting with the management all the way down. They do not want the PAS system there and they are only cooperating when they are forced too. Very, very frustrating. The installation is going to happen. Wishing it way doesn't work, so why not help so that it is done the right way to begin with?

 

[omegaman]

I run about 185 miles a day or 130 miles on area and deliver to 6 different towns and 5 different zip codes. Every day I do my route completely different. Sometimes it's because of airs, sometimes because of bulk. There are weather considerations also that affect how the route is done. When it snows, I have to juggle when I venture up the mountain. We have commitment times for pickups as well as deliveries.
If PAS were to work properly, it would have to consider every variable. I don't see this happening. Also, if the system is relying on sups or managers to set up loops for routes they have no clue about this certainly will not turn out to be very efficient. It looks to be just one more big mess that management will expect us to clean up!

 

[ezrider]

rd0127 that is an unfortunate situation and as a driver I'm discouraged enough by the thought of management not being able to communicate amongst thier own.Once a precedent such as that has been set,pretty soon everybody else starts acting like they have a liscense not give a hoot.

I can't pretend to know all the nuances of your husband's current dilemna,but I can say that the prospect of having to convert to PAS a week after daylight savings and less than a month before peak season arrives would irk the you-know-what out of any center management team.If there was ever a time not to turn a center upside down and on it's ear for a system that obviously can't perform anywhere near to the praise that's preceded it's arrival it would have to be now.

This circus is coming to my town in June of next year,and if they would let me I'd burn every vacation I had to help set the thing up so that it would actually stand a chance of being adequate.But I'm not sure that this endeavor was ever meant to help make it easier for the people that are stuck working with it(or around it as some of the posts I'm reading seem to indicate).From where I stand the idea behind this creation seems to have been "Lets cut the payroll on the preload,cut the number of loads to save more on labor and if we accomplish that,then we may get around to actually trying to make it work".

I can already see two obstacles in the way of it working in my building.First off,every truck on the boxline I walk down each morning is jammed 100% full with overflow from two or three piled neck high on the belt.If the idea behind this is to cut the number of cars dispatched and pile more packages on fewer drivers,than

every driver with a P10 would have to be upgraded to a P12 and we all know that's never going to happen.Second,my on-car sup who recently recieved training on the implementataion of the whole thing is no longer part of our center.He got a promotion to center manager in the building across town.While I'm happy for him(he was a class act and his performance was truly exceptional)there's no getting around that a vital cog to our success is missing.

As much as I empathize with your hubby's frustration(lack of teamwork really gets under my skin too),it could be the center team he's having fits getting thru to is feeling it's the straw that's gonna break the camel's back come December.There's no excuse for opening this big of a can of worms on any center team and it's drivers at such a precarious time of year.

 

[dannyboy]

UPS79

No problem. Stopcounts are a joke in most areas. I classify the statement "planned day" allong with clasics like "military intellegence".
Its funny how management can plan your day down to the second, but when you roll in in ten hours with 13 hours worth of work they seem so suprised.

YEah I am a glutton for punishment. All of my part time years didnt count toward my retirement as a full timer. So 843 working days left so I can count 30 full time years. Thankyou UPS and Teamsters for the extra time. Maybe in the last 4 years I will make a difference, or drive several members of management crazy trying.

d

 

[my2cents]

Dannyboy,

Although off subject for this thread, have you contacted the DOL about your potentially lost pension credits? I think it deserves clarification. ERISA was passed in 1974 and generally speaking, the provisions of the law, according to my ACLU guide on the subject, didn't kick in until January 1976. Furthermore, the book says, "Before ERISA, plans could provide extremely stringent vesting requirements or for none at all." (The Basic ACLU Guide to the Rights of Employees & Union Members, 2nd Edition, 1994, p85) Additionally, "prior to 1985, pension plans could require employees to be at least 25 years old in order to enter the plan." (Footnote 5, p100) Now, according to p80, "Generally, you must have completed one year of service with the sponsoring employer and must be over 21 years old to participate." Sorry about the diversion guys and now back to the thread.