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proups
Guest
The PAS system is supposed to have a "dispatch supervisor." Have any of you who have PAS talked to that person in your center about what is wrong with your route?
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linx
Guest
I have read many messages on this board, there are many good posts. The bottom line on the pas/edd subjedct is cost savings per center. The center I work at has been initiating pas/edd in the last few weeks, You ask why now before peek ? Look at the big picture here. The center took away 5.8 seconds per package on del. pkgs. allowances. That cost me 50 mnts per day, on my 500+ per day pkg count. The first day I thought I would give them the benifit and try to do what many of us do, skip lunch and see what the numbers were in the morning. I was totally shocked, I ran a 11.40 day and was .40 over. My center mng accused me of laying down on the job.It is funny I have consistantly ran under for 22 years. The ultimate phillosophy behind EDD is to make us all generic. They will be able to have unskilled people load and drive the rts , If we strike in the future. Yes , you will loose you bonus little by little, They are counting on those Drivers that run big bonus to continue working themselves to death, because we are programd , and have the best work ethic in the world.I have since started taking my lunch, boy what a difference in mental stress, Boss is not happy, and I work until 8 to 1030 at night.Everyone is going to see a change in the system. 50% of us work past 7pm.I could go on and on. well I did , good luck at your centers, and watch you B/A smile when tou start saving them all that cash>
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drcolossus
Guest
Thank god my contract has an excessive overtime clause that will keep management from holding us to impossible production levels caused by their own stupidity, laziness and incompetence. Most management will never be able to implement, fix or truly understand what is happening with this system. As they have always done, they will try to blame teamsters for its failure instead of themselves. Before, their numbers were a joke because they couldn't get our trucks loaded properly, make efficient dispatching decisions or resolve problems. Now, they will try to put more work on the cars and still fail at what they have always failed at. Most of us are an hour behind before we ever punch in because management doesn't do what they are supposed to. We will not sacrifice precious family time because management doesn't know what they are doing. We will just file grievances.
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tieguy
Guest
Interesting point. The grievance should actually be a means to resolve disputes for some its another way to gum up the works. The "lazy" managements response will probably end up being to give colossus warning letters everytime he turns around rather than ask him what the problem is. I can't see myself trying to fix too many of colossus problems when he has such a terrific attitude.
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oakland
Guest
OK it's my turn now. We have had pas for about a month now. I like it, but we are a long way from where it needs to be to make it work right. I will list some of our problems: Packages are misloaded onto the wrong cars, PAL labels are placed on the wrong packages, usually the wrong city entirely, PAL labels have incorrect consignee address, when a package is scanned for the label an address pops up that is where they were 5 or 10 years ago so that is now the new destination for that package, Packages taken off the car for MOVED, REFUSED, etc end up on your car the next day because the clerks system is not integrated with the PAS even though they put the correct return address on the package, some of these packages recycle for more than a week (I'm not kidding), NDA packages are loaded in your load all the way to section 4 even if your car is cubed out, Packages are listed in EDD but are not on car, including Next Day Airs, Delivery Order Listings are not accurate. Those are just some of things we are going through now but there is probably more I just can't remember them all.
We are working with the company as much as we can to try to identify the many problems we are having on road, but we as drivers can't fix them all. I hate to say it but I know come next year the company will have a whole crew of people combing reports about late air and people driving out of trace and who knows what else. If they want to hand out warning letters and verbals we will push back because I don't see this stuff going away anytime soon. The quick fix will not be to discipline drivers the problems are way bigger than us.
We are working with the company as much as we can to try to identify the many problems we are having on road, but we as drivers can't fix them all. I hate to say it but I know come next year the company will have a whole crew of people combing reports about late air and people driving out of trace and who knows what else. If they want to hand out warning letters and verbals we will push back because I don't see this stuff going away anytime soon. The quick fix will not be to discipline drivers the problems are way bigger than us.
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upsdude
Guest
Were not scheduled to get PAS until spring of 04. Most of us have been bugging center management to correct our DOLs and load diagrams. I realize the sups have as much spare time as I do currently, but come January the drivers will be pressing hard to get this done before EDD gets here.
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drcolossus
Guest
Tie, I've had many a piece of trash manager try to fabricate stuff against me and fail. The reason they fail is that I do my job with total honesty and integrity and my customers love me. I've had a manager try to fire me for production after completely altering my route only for the three days of a ride, and another try to coerce customers to falsely file complaints against me. I refuse to act as many in management at UPS do. It's easy to beat people who lie and cheat, you just expose them for what they are. I'm doing my part to fix this horribly broken company. If many of you cowards in management did the same, that is stand up for what is right, just and honest we could transform UPS into a company that we could be proud of instead of one many of us have repugnance for.
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tieguy
Guest
If one of my piece of trashy management brothers would take your job that progression would happen much more quickly. Your crappy attitude does so much more to destroy this company then any of these alleged management folks you refer to. Your fight is within yourself not with this company.
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steward
Guest
I absolutly promise you, my brothers and sisters, the system does improve. 6 months plus now with the system and all those little annoying things start to smooth out. The wildest event was the day after turkeyday, two drivers on each belt pulled the entire flow to the proper vehicles. Driver sups had the routes broken down before we came in at 530 am rest of drivers in at 8, everyone on road by 830, unbelievable but true.
Keep in mind the people who will notice it the most is the person who doesnt run that route every day, as a 10 yr cover driver i rate this between the backing aide (cameras), and the new labels that allow DR anywhere.
Keep in mind the people who will notice it the most is the person who doesnt run that route every day, as a 10 yr cover driver i rate this between the backing aide (cameras), and the new labels that allow DR anywhere.
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mannbrn
Guest
DrColossus, looks like you struck a nerve! I agree with you totally! Be honest and truthful then everything will fall in-line. It's easy to get caught up into these games that UPS plays but when it's time for judgement I take comfort in knowing that I've tried to do right as a human being.
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playinthru
Guest
It seems strange that from what is written on this board by employees, that all union or hourly people are the salt of the earth types. All of the management is low life dishonest no goods. I don't know ,but I have heard that most all management is promoted from the union or houly ranks. Do the salt of the earth hourly people who get promoted become low lifes, or...
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local804
Guest
Playin
There are alot of management here in NY that were drivers but the majority of them were not. There are 4 managers in this district that were driver for only 30 days.Now, you could say they were drivers, but lets be real. The high honchos here in NY went to college, got the degrees, and knew someone important.I am not saying its like this all over, but here in this state, its who you know.
There are alot of management here in NY that were drivers but the majority of them were not. There are 4 managers in this district that were driver for only 30 days.Now, you could say they were drivers, but lets be real. The high honchos here in NY went to college, got the degrees, and knew someone important.I am not saying its like this all over, but here in this state, its who you know.
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drcolossus
Guest
Playinthru, you are making one very large and wrong assumption. Someone who goes into management at UPS was not promoted. UPS asks just about everyone to do so with very few takers. Many in UPS management were some of the worst hourly workers to ever step through the door and are in these positions simply by default because most others have refused. It is a very undesirable position to take because of the abusive way the company treats its people. Most stay hourly so they have some protection from the abuse. UPS' corporate culture borders on sadism. Under staff and overwork every part of the operation and harass and intimidate your people, both management and hourly, into getting an impossible job done. The problem at UPS starts at the very top. It is a conscience effort made by those who run this company to not just be very profitable, but excessively profitable no matter whom it hurts.
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glenn
Guest
Local youre right, its not like that all over. With the exception of functions in HR, or technical positions, accounting, or sales/marketing Im not sure I know a single person that wasnt hourly before going into management. Nobody in operations anyway. Thats over a 38 year period and I still cant think of a single one.
And for Dr Colossus we all know you. And why you are the way you are, too. I think you may be confusing things in your mind again. Like the fact that they do not ask everyone to go into management. They inform everyone that the possibility exists that they could be promoted into management, and even tell them what the procedure is for consideration.
Theres a reason they do it that way, but Im sure you dont know that either.
And for Dr Colossus we all know you. And why you are the way you are, too. I think you may be confusing things in your mind again. Like the fact that they do not ask everyone to go into management. They inform everyone that the possibility exists that they could be promoted into management, and even tell them what the procedure is for consideration.
Theres a reason they do it that way, but Im sure you dont know that either.
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rd0127
Guest
DrColossus wrote: "Many in UPS management were some of the worst hourly workers to ever step through the door and are in these positions simply by default because most others have refused".
This is a very strong statement to make. Of course there are bad management people at UPS. But, there are also bad drivers, loaders, clerks, techs, etc. Every position at UPS that has multiple people in that position is going to have a variety of workers and workers attitudes, good and bad. There are many good, hard working UPSers in every position in the company. In defense of the management, there are many good managers and supervisors out there. They are working hard and doing their very best for the drivers, clerks, techs, etc. that work for them.
Let's take a positive look at things sometimes, instead of always looking at and for the negative.
This is a very strong statement to make. Of course there are bad management people at UPS. But, there are also bad drivers, loaders, clerks, techs, etc. Every position at UPS that has multiple people in that position is going to have a variety of workers and workers attitudes, good and bad. There are many good, hard working UPSers in every position in the company. In defense of the management, there are many good managers and supervisors out there. They are working hard and doing their very best for the drivers, clerks, techs, etc. that work for them.
Let's take a positive look at things sometimes, instead of always looking at and for the negative.
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playinthru
Guest
DrColossus-You may be right, I make certain assumptions. How many management people are at UPS? What is very few? They ask everyone to go into mgmt? So some of the worst people at UPS were hourly? I find it difficult to believe that it is an impossible job, yet it gets done everyday, and the company is one of the most admired and successful in history. I don't know you or your story, so I can't and won't critize your statements or you. But, I will discuss the logic of your statements. An angry rebuttle from you I do not desire, but discussion is appreciated...Thanks PlayInThru...
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muncher
Guest
was wondering how the pas system was working this Christmas?
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jeffmcgovern
Guest
The one piece of advice I will give everyone involved with PAS is...You can't hurry PAS.
PAS has a very hard limit on the number of packages it can process per hour. If you don't control the flow properly you die like a rat. Most PAS installations (at least from what I have heard) do not have much slop built into them. Therefore, if you get behind or don't keep your process rate within a very narrow window, you swamp Data Capture or run into the drivers.
The 'old guard' preload management folks seem to have the hardest time coming to grips with this. They are used to being able to double up on trailers in the input to 'catch up' if their process rate lags.
It sounds bad, but it seems like the less someone knows about 'old school' preloads, the more successful they are with PAS preloads.
PAS has a very hard limit on the number of packages it can process per hour. If you don't control the flow properly you die like a rat. Most PAS installations (at least from what I have heard) do not have much slop built into them. Therefore, if you get behind or don't keep your process rate within a very narrow window, you swamp Data Capture or run into the drivers.
The 'old guard' preload management folks seem to have the hardest time coming to grips with this. They are used to being able to double up on trailers in the input to 'catch up' if their process rate lags.
It sounds bad, but it seems like the less someone knows about 'old school' preloads, the more successful they are with PAS preloads.
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testament
Guest
I've been a driver for 9 years. It has been peaks and valleys the entire time. I've heard many a bad thing about PAS. I'm doing 150 stops a day now which equates to about a nine hour day. What I'm picturing is my stop count going to 200 and my plan time dropping to eight hours. I'm working like a monkey slave as it is now and I'm not willing to have to work harder for less money. We are scheduled for PAS by spring of 2005. I hope to have bidded out of driving and into an Article 22 hub position by then. Im tired of alot of things with the job. I'm willing to take the paycut. Management should kiss the ground I walk on for how hard I work-instead they spin it around and make it seem like I owe them something. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! I have other ambitions anyway, working in the hub at night will let me fulfill them.
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wkmac
Guest
Jeff,
You are correct about the flow rates for PAS. It has a set in stone max process rate and that's it. The unload process must be literally singulated with labels up or the whole process slows down and thus the total sort span lenghtens because of the backup you spoke of.
However there is light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. A lot of work is going into the whole process of data capture and making the package locally smart so to speak. Some other things to remember is this is an evolving technology and we have just begun the journey. Also a number of drivers have complained about various problems and some of that (not all however) stem in some cases from a poor job of setting up the initial loops and other details of the system. All PAS does at the end of the day is automate the mental aspect of the sortation process through simplification and have the driver's day setup on the frontend to it's most efficent means. No more remembering mass amounts of streets, etc. but now only a small amount of data must be retained to do the job for the preloader and I know this isn't the case but the intent was for the driver to step on the car and the only time he/she had to touch a package was when it came time to deliver that one. I've seen multiple cars parked in parking lots on my way to work literally unloading and reloading their cars so the system either needs some more work or we have drivers who correctly or incorrectly believe they know the best loop possible. Again, we've only begun using this whole process and it's an evolving one.
One last thing to keep in the radar sights. RFID! Walmart drove the move of business to barcode and now they are the driving force towards RFID. Once Walmart had the bugs worked out with barcode they demanded all their vendors convert to this new format at the time and if they overcome some of the current problems with RFID they will do the same again and you can bet UPS will follow suit. In fact they may be deeper than you might think already. If RFID works out it will take everything to a whole other level not even dreamed possible before. Pickup packages that instead of scanning talk directly to the diad and populate the board when the driver gets so close. Also if a customer has no pickups RF messages an automated message to the driver when he/she gets so close that there are no pickups and the driver continues onward. Driver walks in for delivery and the package info automaticlly uploads to the customer computer database an instant verification is confirmed before the driver even walks through the business door. And yes RFID could at some point be introduced into not only the preload process but all sortation processes. Think about ditching those hand scanners during the loading process and each load has a transponder for uplinking the package PLD as it enters the trailer. Missorts? Mistoggles? Origin Scan errors? Gone! There are many, many more applications possible so just keep that in the back of your minds going forward. Watch this technology. JMO.
You are correct about the flow rates for PAS. It has a set in stone max process rate and that's it. The unload process must be literally singulated with labels up or the whole process slows down and thus the total sort span lenghtens because of the backup you spoke of.
However there is light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. A lot of work is going into the whole process of data capture and making the package locally smart so to speak. Some other things to remember is this is an evolving technology and we have just begun the journey. Also a number of drivers have complained about various problems and some of that (not all however) stem in some cases from a poor job of setting up the initial loops and other details of the system. All PAS does at the end of the day is automate the mental aspect of the sortation process through simplification and have the driver's day setup on the frontend to it's most efficent means. No more remembering mass amounts of streets, etc. but now only a small amount of data must be retained to do the job for the preloader and I know this isn't the case but the intent was for the driver to step on the car and the only time he/she had to touch a package was when it came time to deliver that one. I've seen multiple cars parked in parking lots on my way to work literally unloading and reloading their cars so the system either needs some more work or we have drivers who correctly or incorrectly believe they know the best loop possible. Again, we've only begun using this whole process and it's an evolving one.
One last thing to keep in the radar sights. RFID! Walmart drove the move of business to barcode and now they are the driving force towards RFID. Once Walmart had the bugs worked out with barcode they demanded all their vendors convert to this new format at the time and if they overcome some of the current problems with RFID they will do the same again and you can bet UPS will follow suit. In fact they may be deeper than you might think already. If RFID works out it will take everything to a whole other level not even dreamed possible before. Pickup packages that instead of scanning talk directly to the diad and populate the board when the driver gets so close. Also if a customer has no pickups RF messages an automated message to the driver when he/she gets so close that there are no pickups and the driver continues onward. Driver walks in for delivery and the package info automaticlly uploads to the customer computer database an instant verification is confirmed before the driver even walks through the business door. And yes RFID could at some point be introduced into not only the preload process but all sortation processes. Think about ditching those hand scanners during the loading process and each load has a transponder for uplinking the package PLD as it enters the trailer. Missorts? Mistoggles? Origin Scan errors? Gone! There are many, many more applications possible so just keep that in the back of your minds going forward. Watch this technology. JMO.
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