PVD

[Article 3]

Wow...you Joe Unions are tough...online.

It’s too bad the Union is unwilling to embrace social media to reach out to the younger members.

We know who you are...Joe Company.
Face to face we'd all be the same as on this board.
That's not saying much for you.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Whatever....I will be gone in less than a year and you and Bug will be trying to save a union that is clearly on life support.

 

[Article 3]

Whatever....I will be gone in less than a year and you and Bug will be trying to save a union that is clearly on life support.

And we'll have one less (spineless) company sympathizer to respond to if you truly disappear from here.

 

[Mugarolla]

Without quoting a bunch of posts, and trying to address different statements;


@Mugarolla I agree with 99% of what you are saying. (contractually)

Except.... there is no language allowing or requiring seasonal's to use their

personal vehicles. In fact, there is a long established past practice of using

company provided "means of transport". Trying to draw a parallel to the

language in Article 40, is a bit of a stretch.


The company, has obviously been planing this for sometime.


Why not do the right the thing ?

Contact the IBT and request negotiations over the issue.


I can tell you why.... the company is so arrogant.... their only response is

file a grievance. That's short term thinking.


The IBT's response and multiple information requests, demonstrates experience

in "how to prevail" in contract situations like this.



-Bug-

No problem with this from me.

Let's see if H&H feel as you do and step in here in the next week or two.

 

[Article 3]

Meanwhile, this just in...
PVDs from Utah:

PVDs in Kentucky:

And from Indiana Amish area:

 

[MyTripisCut]

So, you're posting about PVD's and personal vehicles, but you aren't even sure about the contractual language???



Everyone on here is complaining about the forced OT, and you are now complaining about reducing OT???

Anyway, these PVD's are not eliminating jobs. UPS hires seasonal drivers every year. That was these are. Call them ground delivering Uber drivers all you want, but the contract that everyone voted for doesn't forbid it.



Same here, but I was responding to @MyTripisCut and his statement that solely because a PVD uses his personal vehicle, this makes him a subcontractor. And the PVD's will also be paid for their mileage.



Correct, but because they "happen to" use their own vehicle, doesn't make them a subcontractor, as @MyTripisCut claims.

Again, I am not thrilled with the idea of these PVD's. I know UPS and I know they will try and use these things at times other than seasonal down the road,

but, contractually, we cannot stop them right now.

But we can have language covering this in the upcoming contract, and need to have language for them to keep UPS in check.

You may not be for it. But you sure sound like you are....sorry I don’t have the contract memorized, was just quoting what you wrote. I’m tired of everyone saying it’s in the contract already, for years, where do we draw a line? When?

 

[MyTripisCut]

So, you're posting about PVD's and personal vehicles, but you aren't even sure about the contractual language???



Everyone on here is complaining about the forced OT, and you are now complaining about reducing OT???

Anyway, these PVD's are not eliminating jobs. UPS hires seasonal drivers every year. That was these are. Call them ground delivering Uber drivers all you want, but the contract that everyone voted for doesn't forbid it.



Same here, but I was responding to @MyTripisCut and his statement that solely because a PVD uses his personal vehicle, this makes him a subcontractor. And the PVD's will also be paid for their mileage.



Correct, but because they "happen to" use their own vehicle, doesn't make them a subcontractor, as @MyTripisCut claims.

Again, I am not thrilled with the idea of these PVD's. I know UPS and I know they will try and use these things at times other than seasonal down the road,

but, contractually, we cannot stop them right now.

But we can have language covering this in the upcoming contract, and need to have language for them to keep UPS in check.

And let’s be clear, I’m not attacking you, by any means, we are sharing information which is for the greater good, I hope. If a feeder driver used his own tractor, would he be an independent contractor?

 

[Mugarolla]

You may not be for it. But you sure sound like you are...

I am not for it but I am about enforcing the contract, for the better or worse.

I’m tired of everyone saying it’s in the contract already, for years, where do we draw a line?

The line was drawn over the years as people voted the contracts in. Half the time, they didn't even know what was in it and still voted yes.

When?

Can't now, but in 2018 we sure can.

And let’s be clear, I’m not attacking you, by any means,

Nor I you, I am just relating my views on what's in the contract.

we are sharing information which is for the greater good,

Which is good.

If a feeder driver used his own tractor, would he be an independent contractor?

Not necessarily.

You can be an employee, paid by the hour, health benefits and all and still drive your personal vehicle.

It just depends on your employment status.

Quick example. Most BA's drive their personal cars for work. They need a vehicle to get to local hearings, state Panels and so forth.

They are not subcontractors, they work for the local and are reimbursed mileage.

 

[Article 3]

I am not for it but I am about enforcing the contract, for the better or worse.



The line was drawn over the years as people voted the contracts in. Half the time, they didn't even know what was in it and still voted yes.



Can't now, but in 2018 we sure can.



Nor I you, I am just relating my views on what's in the contract.



Which is good.



Not necessarily.

You can be an employee, paid by the hour, health benefits and all and still drive your personal vehicle.

It just depends on your employment status.

Quick example. Most BA's drive their personal cars for work. They need a vehicle to get to local hearings, state Panels and so forth.

They are not subcontractors, they work for the local and are reimbursed mileage.

And their vehicle allowance every month more than pays for their vehicle.
Unless you drive a Lamborghini or an R8.

 

[Mugarolla]

And their vehicle allowance every month more than pays for their vehicle.
Unless you drive a Lamborghini or an R8.

Correct.

And it is right for them to have a vehicle allowance because they need a vehicle in order to work.

My point was that they are not subcontractors just because they drive for personal vehicle for work.

 

[Coldworld]

Whatever....I will be gone in less than a year and you and Bug will be trying to save a union that is clearly on life support.

Do you really want the union to go under??? Have your pension cut even more than it has been... you better hope your condo sells big in this mkt cAuse you aren't living for the next 40 years on a. Mediocre 200k 401k!!

 

[TheFigurehead]

First PVD driver spotted....

They hired one here, too...

 

[Coldworld]

Let's bring it back old school...

The gypo jalopy ....

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Walk it back.... truck driver.

Odd- you made a very similar comment to someone else to the one I made to you. Guess it's ok if you are a .... Big Union Guy. (In case you are wondering- I'm shaking in my shoes now. You really...put me in my place. Lol.)

 

[Article 3]

Let's bring it back old school...

View attachment 163373

The gypo jalopy ....

Looks like the driver is trying to make sense out of his Orion dispatch.

 

[OrioN]

Sigh, it's now close to 900 spots, butt my state still not listed...

PS, would they get magnetic decals on their personal delivery vehicles?

I know they will be issued uniforms, but customers don't really care about that when these PVDs are going up in people's driveways in unmarked vehicles in the dark

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Yes, they will be issued DOT placards.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Quick example. Most BA's drive their personal cars for work. They need a vehicle to get to local hearings, state Panels and so forth. They are not subcontractors, they work for the local and are reimbursed mileage.

I understand what you're saying, and different Local's do it different ways.

I've seen that, Local's that lease vehicles, and what my Local does....

provide a monthly car allowance + the cost of documented fuel expense.

Odd- you made a very similar comment to someone else to the one I made to you. Guess it's ok if you are a .... Big Union Guy. (In case you are wondering- I'm shaking in my shoes now. You really...put me in my place. Lol.)

I think I was looking for more of an explanation ? I can't remember what I

was thinking. Don't think it was a put-down.



-Bug-

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Yes, they will be issued DOT placards.

??


"Trucks cannot be over 10,000 pounds and must have a covered and secured bed."

UPS Seasonal Personal Vehicle Package Driver job at UPS | Monster.com

 

[OrioN]

Maybe just the UPS shield logo, no DOT numbers needed on those magnetic decals