PVD

[Article 3]

I agree that it would be good to give permanent insiders the chance to go driving. You yourself are saying driving classes are full. Wouldn't that tend to indicate UPS is doing just that?
It is a nice thought to cover all of the delivery with permanent UPSers but there is just too much work at peak for that. Even the union recognizes this which is why they agree to seasonal drivers in the first place.

I didn't say the classes were full. The company did. That's the point you are missing.

 

[Article 3]

I agree that it would be good to give permanent insiders the chance to go driving. You yourself are saying driving classes are full. Wouldn't that tend to indicate UPS is doing just that?
It is a nice thought to cover all of the delivery with permanent UPSers but there is just too much work at peak for that. Even the union recognizes this which is why they agree to seasonal drivers in the first place.

The union agreed to the concept of using PVDs? I haven't heard that one yet.

 

[brownIEman]

For the record, you are incorrect about insiders and driving. Our inside people sign the list and become seasonal covers; also PT supervisors go driving during peak in our region, to become FT sups. I don't know exactly how many insiders are seasonal covers (peak, vacations) but quite a few are lost from the inside to go drive.

You are correct. I should have been clearer and put the qualifier you can't have ALL the insiders out driving. You can't empty the inside operation (and not all of them want to anyway). My main point was there is too much work at peak even fort hat which is why the union agreed to seasonals.

Seasonal cover? Did not have that in my district. I wish we had.

 

[brownIEman]

The union agreed to the concept of using PVDs? I haven't heard that one yet.

They agreed to seasonal delivery drivers hence the language in the contract that covers them. PVDs are seasonal drivers so in essence yes.

 

[Article 3]

Not around here.



Yes they are.



A lot of these part time employees have second jobs and do not want to drive just for a month.



Me too.



OK. Let's use your example. Some PTers go driving instead of PVD's.

Who does the "bargaining unit" work of these PTers. Oh, that's right...seasonals.



Seasonals are bargaining unit employees per the contract.

And again, who does the work of these PTers that go driving? Seasonals.



What do you mean inside workers who would have driven earlier this year?

I understand where you are coming from. Give the insider more money and experience during peak instead of the seasonal, but that theory can backfire, very badly for the inside employee.

Somehow you and brownIEman are missing the point, the only point I'm making, about part-timers wanting to drive.
It doesn't make me any difference if one part-timer or 100 part-timers in a building want to drive. The issue is they should have first right of refusal over PVDs.

Driving experience is a big deal to those that want to make UPS a driving career. Any Jump Start is beneficial to those folks.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Yes, current employees should always have the right of first refusal.

 

[Bubblehead]

Somehow you and brownIEman are missing the point, the only point I'm making, about part-timers wanting to drive.
It doesn't make me any difference if one part-timer or 100 part-timers in a building want to drive. The issue is they should have first right of refusal over PVDs.

Driving experience is a big deal to those that want to make UPS a driving career. Any Jump Start is beneficial to those folks.

Yes, current employees should always have the right of first refusal.

It's not happening here either, and I have a theory.

We had several part timers inquire about being a PVD driver for peak, but were turned away.
Company deemed them ineligible.

It's my belief that they are being excluded, because the Company prefers to have them in the hub.

I'm thinking these part time employees have a valid grievance for being turned away.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I agree with the company that they should not be allowed to use their own vehicles.

I disagree that they should not be put on road in a company supplied vehicle ahead of a seasonal employee.

 

[Mugarolla]

Somehow you and brownIEman are missing the point, the only point

I am not missing your point.

The issue is they should have first right of refusal over PVDs.

I know what you meant, but, contractually, they do not.

I think that PTers should have first dibs at these PVD jobs.

Driving experience is a big deal to those that want to make UPS a driving career. Any Jump Start is beneficial to those folks.

I agree. So let's try and change it next contract.

But, for the time being, there is no contractual violation.

We had several part timers inquire about being a PVD driver for peak, but were turned away.
Company deemed them ineligible.

Why?

It's my belief that they are being excluded, because the Company prefers to have them in the hub.

I agree. They don't want to have to train them as a PVD and then also train a seasonal to do their job.

I'm thinking these part time employees have a valid grievance for being turned away.

I agree and they should pursue it.

 

[clean hairy]

What I am saying is that driving school(s) are maxed out for true UPS employees who wanted to gain driving experience and earn a better wage.

PVDs are temps, whether they pay dues or not, and since the company puts out their own calendar every year they could flip through the pages and be enlightened that November and December are still coming up and therefore hire more inside employees to help cover the inside work, on time, thus giving inside UPS employees the opportunity to drive at a much better hourly rate plus getting driving experience that can be beneficial to them (and the company) down the road.

PVDs will be gone I hope in 8 wks (not 10) and their experience benefits nothing for the company down the road.

Your scenario glosses over the issue I'm talking about...
UPS employees given the opportunity to do bargaining unit work. PVDs, in mass, are not UPS employees but they'll get the work that is syphoned away from part time UPS employees since the company didn't send more to driving school earlier, and didn't make room to accommodate them before hand. It is obvious the company predestined the PVD issue to replace inside workers who would've driven earlier this year.

And as for your attitude, yes, you need to adjust it.

"PVDS in mass are not UPS employees" stated above.
So, if they are not ups employees, who is issuing the weekly pay to them?
If the issuers name on the check indicates UPS, how would that not make them ups employees?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

"PVDS in mass are not UPS employees" stated above.
So, if they are not ups employees, who is issuing the weekly pay to them?
If the issuers name on the check indicates UPS, how would that not make them ups employees?

I deliver to our local SUNY bookstore and the manager told me that his brother and sister in law will be working together as a PVD team this Peak. I would have to assume that one of them is the employee and the other is simply working with him/her on a volunteer basis.

 

[MyTripisCut]

Without quoting every time it was mentioned, wouldn’t PVD be sub contractors and not seasonal, based on the idea alone that you have to supply your own vehicle. If the company suddenly said we had to lease our package car to be able to work there, would the union agree to it? I would hope not. If the company was supplying hundreds of white unmarked vans, and the union was charging dues, then they would be seasonal. Otherwise, I say scab.

 

[brownIEman]

Without quoting every time it was mentioned, wouldn’t PVD be sub contractors and not seasonal, based on the idea alone that you have to supply your own vehicle. If the company suddenly said we had to lease our package car to be able to work there, would the union agree to it? I would hope not. If the company was supplying hundreds of white unmarked vans, and the union was charging dues, then they would be seasonal. Otherwise, I say scab.

Driving their own vehicle would not automatically make them independent contractors.

 

[MyTripisCut]

Driving their own vehicle would not automatically make them independent contractors.

I say we independently contract some Industrial Engineers that can apply actual logic to real world situations.

 

[PT Car Washer]

Driving their own vehicle would not automatically make them independent contractors.

From one of the Amazon flex You Tube videos he stated they were sub contractors and responsible for paying the Federal and State taxes. I would imagine UPS would follow the same model for PVD's.

 

[Article 3]

Without quoting every time it was mentioned, wouldn’t PVD be sub contractors and not seasonal, based on the idea alone that you have to supply your own vehicle. If the company suddenly said we had to lease our package car to be able to work there, would the union agree to it? I would hope not. If the company was supplying hundreds of white unmarked vans, and the union was charging dues, then they would be seasonal. Otherwise, I say scab.

Exactly.

 

[Article 3]

Driving their own vehicle would not automatically make them independent contractors.

Tell that to FDX.

 

[Article 3]

"PVDS in mass are not UPS employees" stated above.
So, if they are not ups employees, who is issuing the weekly pay to them?
If the issuers name on the check indicates UPS, how would that not make them ups employees?

I paid repairmen and service workers in businesses I had in the past. So...they're my employees?

The state I live in is fining and stripping state licenses from employers that subcontract work out on jobs they registered their license number on the blueprints but use workers that are not permanently hired into their payroll system as such.
There's a difference.

 

[Article 3]

Send them into the hood. We'll see if money talks then.
The upside is that they can transport heat in their vehicles and I don't mean ambient breezes from a hot radiator.

 

[brownIEman]

Tell that to FDX.

I don't need to. Two appeals courts already did.