PVD

[brownIEman]

From one of the Amazon flex You Tube videos he stated they were sub contractors and responsible for paying the Federal and State taxes. I would imagine UPS would follow the same model for PVD's.

Yes, but driving their own car is not what makes the Amazon flex people contractors.

If UPS hires the PVDs as employees and pays payroll taxes for them etc. then they don't magically turn into ICs when they turn the ignition on their personal vehicle.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Will their daily mileage be reported on the honor system, especially if they don’t have to start their day at the center?

 

[brownIEman]

I say we independently contract some Industrial Engineers that can apply actual logic to real world situations.

If you can find them I say go for it.
Tearsinrain might have a different view.

 

[brownIEman]

Will their daily mileage be reported on the honor system, especially if they don’t have to start their day at the center?

My guess would be mileage tracking will be built into the app I've heard they'll use for delivery. That's speculation on my part.

 

[Article 3]

My guess would be mileage tracking will be built into the app I've heard they'll use for delivery. That's speculation on my part.

Nah, pay them off the Orion projection.

 

[Mugarolla]

Without quoting every time it was mentioned, wouldn’t PVD be sub contractors and not seasonal, based on the idea alone that you have to supply your own vehicle.

Nope.

And, by the way, we already have language for drivers using their personal vehicles, and they are not subcontractors.

Article 40

Section 1

Air Exception drivers who would happen to use their personal
automobiles shall be reimbursed at the IRS limit applicable
per mile for all miles driven to perform the air driving work in addition
to their air driver wages.

Driving their own vehicle would not automatically make them independent contractors.

Correct.

I would imagine UPS would follow the same model for PVD's.

UPS is paying them by the hour, not by the mile or the package, although they will be getting mileage over and above their hourly pay, and UPS will withhold taxes, as they do every year for seasonal employees.

I paid repairmen and service workers in businesses I had in the past. So...they're my employees?

Nope. You did not hire them as employees. You paid for their service.

UPS is hiring the PVD's as seasonal employees, will be on the UPS payroll, and will have taxes withheld.

We hire seasonal drivers every year. The contract allows it.

 

[MyTripisCut]

Nope.

And, by the way, we already have language for drivers using their personal vehicles, and they are not subcontractors.

Article 40

Section 1

Air Exception drivers who would happen to use their personal
automobiles shall be reimbursed at the IRS limit applicable
per mile for all miles driven to perform the air driving work in addition
to their air driver wages.

It clearly states that is for air exception drivers. Have never even heard of that. I’m assuming it’s for when air volume is either heavier than normal or late, and an inside employee is asked to run air with their own vehicle? Not quite the same as eliminating OT and jobs with ground delivering Uber drivers.

 

[Article 3]

It clearly states that is for air exception drivers. Have never even heard of that. I’m assuming it’s for when air volume is either heavier than normal or late, and an inside employee is asked to run air with their own vehicle? Not quite the same as eliminating OT and jobs with ground delivering Uber drivers.

The company absolutely refuses to allow pkg car drivers to use their own vehicles here.
That may just be a business decision since it's not addressed in the CBA but air drivers have been allowed to use their personal vehicle at times and paid for mileage as it states.

 

[Article 3]

Nope. You did not hire them as employees. You paid for their service.

UPS is hiring the PVD's as seasonal employees, will be on the UPS payroll, and will have taxes withheld.

We hire seasonal drivers every year. The contract allows it.

My response to cleanharry's statement was to the blanket statement posted.
I understand the difference.

The company absolutely refuses to allow pkg car drivers to use their own vehicles here.
That may just be a business decision since it's not addressed in the CBA but air drivers have been allowed to use their personal vehicle at times and paid for mileage as it states.

The language allows it but it's not the norm as it reads "happens to".

 

[BigUnionGuy]

First PVD driver spotted....

 

[Mugarolla]

It clearly states that is for air exception drivers. Have never even heard of that.

So, you're posting about PVD's and personal vehicles, but you aren't even sure about the contractual language???

Not quite the same as eliminating OT and jobs with ground delivering Uber drivers.

Everyone on here is complaining about the forced OT, and you are now complaining about reducing OT???

Anyway, these PVD's are not eliminating jobs. UPS hires seasonal drivers every year. That was these are. Call them ground delivering Uber drivers all you want, but the contract that everyone voted for doesn't forbid it.

The company absolutely refuses to allow pkg car drivers to use their own vehicles here.

That may just be a business decision since it's not addressed in the CBA but air drivers have been allowed to use their personal vehicle at times and paid for mileage as it states.

Same here, but I was responding to @MyTripisCut and his statement that solely because a PVD uses his personal vehicle, this makes him a subcontractor. And the PVD's will also be paid for their mileage.

The language allows it but it's not the norm as it reads "happens to".

Correct, but because they "happen to" use their own vehicle, doesn't make them a subcontractor, as @MyTripisCut claims.

Again, I am not thrilled with the idea of these PVD's. I know UPS and I know they will try and use these things at times other than seasonal down the road,

but, contractually, we cannot stop them right now.

But we can have language covering this in the upcoming contract, and need to have language for them to keep UPS in check.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

So, you're posting about PVD's and personal vehicles, but you aren't even sure about the contractual language???



Everyone on here is complaining about the forced OT, and you are now complaining about reducing OT???

Anyway, these PVD's are not eliminating jobs. UPS hires seasonal drivers every year. That was these are. Call them ground delivering Uber drivers all you want, but the contract that everyone voted for doesn't forbid it.



Same here, but I was responding to @MyTripisCut and his statement that solely because a PVD uses his personal vehicle, this makes him a subcontractor. And the PVD's will also be paid for their mileage.



Correct, but because they "happen to" use their own vehicle, doesn't make them a subcontractor, as @MyTripisCut claims.

Again, I am not thrilled with the idea of these PVD's. I know UPS and I know they will try and use these things at times other than seasonal down the road,

but, contractually, we cannot stop them right now.

But we can have language covering this in the upcoming contract, and need to have language for them to keep UPS in check.

This wasn't even mentioned at my local's contract proposal meeting. I wish I had known about it then. And hopefully members of other locals were raising hell about it at theirs.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Without quoting a bunch of posts, and trying to address different statements;


@Mugarolla I agree with 99% of what you are saying. (contractually)

Except.... there is no language allowing or requiring seasonal's to use their

personal vehicles. In fact, there is a long established past practice of using

company provided "means of transport". Trying to draw a parallel to the

language in Article 40, is a bit of a stretch.


The company, has obviously been planing this for sometime.


Why not do the right the thing ?

Contact the IBT and request negotiations over the issue.


I can tell you why.... the company is so arrogant.... their only response is

file a grievance. That's short term thinking.


The IBT's response and multiple information requests, demonstrates experience

in "how to prevail" in contract situations like this.



-Bug-

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Without quoting a bunch of posts, and trying to address different statements;


@Mugarolla I agree with 99% of what you are saying. (contractually)

Except.... there is no language allowing or requiring seasonal's to use their

personal vehicles. In fact, there is a long established past practice of using

company provided "means of transport". Trying to draw a parallel to the

language in Article 40, is a bit of a stretch.


The company, has obviously been planing this for sometime.


Why not do the right the thing ?

Contact the IBT and request negotiations over the issue.


I can tell you why.... the company is so arrogant.... their only response is

file a grievance. That's short term thinking.


The IBT's response and multiple information requests, demonstrates experience

in "how to prevail" in contract situations like this.



-Bug-

If I had coffee I'd be choking on it. Lol.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

If I had coffee I'd be choking on it. Lol.

Walk it back.... truck driver.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Walk it back.... truck driver.

WITF do you think you are?!

 

[Article 3]

Without quoting a bunch of posts, and trying to address different statements;


@Mugarolla I agree with 99% of what you are saying. (contractually)

Except.... there is no language allowing or requiring seasonal's to use their

personal vehicles. In fact, there is a long established past practice of using

company provided "means of transport". Trying to draw a parallel to the

language in Article 40, is a bit of a stretch.


The company, has obviously been planing this for sometime.


Why not do the right the thing ?

Contact the IBT and request negotiations over the issue.


I can tell you why.... the company is so arrogant.... their only response is

file a grievance. That's short term thinking.


The IBT's response and multiple information requests, demonstrates experience

in "how to prevail" in contract situations like this.



-Bug-

We'll be filing on supes working. Tit for tat.
There's language on that one.

 

[Article 3]

WITF do you think you are?!

You're out of your league Geritol man.
Look before stepping.

If I had coffee I'd be choking on it. Lol.

I believe he posted in support of your post.
That's how I took it anyway.

 

[Article 3]

First PVD driver spotted....

Spit coffee on that one for sure.
I thought it was USNY new ride.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Wow...you Joe Unions are tough...online.

It’s too bad the Union is unwilling to embrace social media to reach out to the younger members.