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vantexan

Well-Known Member
No, it's a sincere attempt to worship and live the Christian life as they did in the First Century Church. To not go beyond the Scripture or take anything away from it. As you can imagine when many people from different denominations in the 1800's and 1900's left to join the Church of Christ it didn't go over well with the various denominations. At its height in the U.S. it had about 3 million members but has seen its membership shrink a bit as have most mainstream denominations.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
The thief on the cross is the destroyer of man made religious dogma.
C of C - 5 step plan with baptism the defining
Apostolic - Jesus only baptism with holy ghost
Catholic - sacraments
Liberals - create your own salvation
On & on...
I don't see a problem with creating these systems leading towards salvation, but to claim everyone outside of MY system is lost elevates men to a place that wasn't made for them.
There are people in every one of these systems that haven't bent their knee to God. They think their system gets them in.
You have a misunderstanding of the thief on the cross. He was not saved by Jesus on the cross. If you examine the accounts in the Gospels you'll see that he ridiculed Jesus as did the other thief. When Jesus told him that he would be in paradise the literal translation should've been the ground. Unfortunately because the translators into English didn't give an exact translation people take the meaning of paradise to mean he was saved. That's why Bible scholars examine the original Greek and Hebrew writings to understand what was meant. And I can say this repeatedly but people want to believe what they want no matter the original text says. So you'll scoff. The point of the Church of Christ is to examine what the Bible teaches and follow it as closely as possible without alteration. People "feel in their hearts" all kinds of things. But to best serve God we must accurately follow the Scripture.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I see your point.

IMO every human is in some way indoctrinated.

You too.
If you refuse to accept Biblical authority, believe you literally speak to and hear the Holy Spirit speaking to you, and believe sinful acts such as homosexuality are acceptable to God, you are either in a cult or are attempting to start one.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
If you refuse to accept Biblical authority, believe you literally speak to and hear the Holy Spirit speaking to you, and believe sinful acts such as homosexuality are acceptable to God, you are either in a cult or are attempting to start one.
The church that I belong to is generally not viewed as a cult, but if it is that doesn’t bother me.

However I do disagree with your above statement.
 

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
You have a misunderstanding of the thief on the cross. He was not saved by Jesus on the cross. If you examine the accounts in the Gospels you'll see that he ridiculed Jesus as did the other thief. When Jesus told him that he would be in paradise the literal translation should've been the ground. Unfortunately because the translators into English didn't give an exact translation people take the meaning of paradise to mean he was saved. That's why Bible scholars examine the original Greek and Hebrew writings to understand what was meant. And I can say this repeatedly but people want to believe what they want no matter the original text says. So you'll scoff. The point of the Church of Christ is to examine what the Bible teaches and follow it as closely as possible without alteration. People "feel in their hearts" all kinds of things. But to best serve God we must accurately follow the Scripture.
The Bible teaches the thief was saved. Both did ridicule Jesus, but the thief that was saved, repented.
Jesus and the thief were together in Paradise (not heaven) Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after his resurrection. Check out the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Paradise was the side of the gulf Lazarus landed on (Abraham's bosom). "Paradise" is a section of hades. It is a place of comfort and pleasure. The other compartment of hades is a place of torment. It is called tartarus (2 Pet. 2:4), which means "a place of punishment." That's where the rich man's soul was deposited.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Have you ever seen the commercials for St. Jude's Children's Hospital? If miracles still occur, a very good way to proclaim Christ would be to go there and heal those kids. Or heal the sick in thousands of hospitals across the world. Jesus performed miracles. His apostles performed miracles. If you have the ability to perform such then by all means do so. And I'm 100% sincere about that. If you want to prove that the Holy Spirit does indeed talk to you then by all means shut me up by performing miracles. We wouldn't need organizations like Doctors Without Borders doing surgery on kids in Africa. They could be healed by the laying on of hands. Fed too. There's nothing in the New Testament that says miracles can only be performed under certain conditions or that God is doling them out sparingly or that people must first believe in them in order for miracles to happen. So make me a believer in your powers. Make the haters of Christ admit they are wrong.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Have you ever seen the commercials for St. Jude's Children's Hospital? If miracles still occur, a very good way to proclaim Christ would be to go there and heal those kids. Or heal the sick in thousands of hospitals across the world. Jesus performed miracles. His apostles performed miracles. If you have the ability to perform such then by all means do so. And I'm 100% sincere about that. If you want to prove that the Holy Spirit does indeed talk to you then by all means shut me up by performing miracles. We wouldn't need organizations like Doctors Without Borders doing surgery on kids in Africa. They could be healed by the laying on of hands. Fed too. There's nothing in the New Testament that says miracles can only be performed under certain conditions or that God is doling them out sparingly or that people must first believe in them in order for miracles to happen. So make me a believer in your powers. Make the haters of Christ admit they are wrong.
To answer your direct question:
Yes I have seen the commercials that you referenced.
 

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Point one is all I read. That was enough.The perfect thing to come is not Jesus. Jesus had already came.
Chapter 13 is dealing with things that are "part" of something. Whatever the part of something is, the whole or complete will be the same.
They know "in part" because they were getting bits and pieces of revelation, they did not have the "whole" revelation as we have it.
If you have 4 parts/pieces of a pie, you don't have a whole pie until you put it together. Paul is talking about the revelation/word of God, not Jesus. We have it in the whole/completed form. They did not.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
The Bible teaches the thief was saved. Both did ridicule Jesus, but the thief that was saved, repented.
Jesus and the thief were together in Paradise (not heaven) Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after his resurrection. Check out the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Paradise was the side of the gulf Lazarus landed on (Abraham's bosom). "Paradise" is a section of hades. It is a place of comfort and pleasure. The other compartment of hades is a place of torment. It is called tartarus (2 Pet. 2:4), which means "a place of punishment." That's where the rich man's soul was deposited.
If the thief was saved then it was before the Church was established. We are commanded to repent, confess that Jesus is the Son of God, and be baptized. Mark wrote that the two thieves reviled him, hurled insults. Never spoke of the one thief being saved. When Jesus said in Luke that the one thief would be with him in paradise the literal translation is the ground. That would suggest to me that Luke showed that the one you're saying was saved was actually mocking Jesus. But I may be wrong. However those that use the Scripture in Luke to suggest we only have to believe need to realize that at that point Jesus was a Jew and the Lord's Church wasn't established until after his death, burial, and resurrection. It is why we're commanded to be baptized. It's symbolic of Christ's death and resurrection.
 

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
If the thief was saved then it was before the Church was established.
Correct.
50 days before. The thief died under the Old Covenant.
"We are commanded to repent, confess that Jesus is the Son of God, and be baptized.'' Correct again.
Nobody under the Old Law was ever commanded to do such a thing.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Point one is all I read. That was enough.The perfect thing to come is not Jesus. Jesus had already came.
Chapter 13 is dealing with things that are "part" of something. Whatever the part of something is, the whole or complete will be the same.
They know "in part" because they were getting bits and pieces of revelation, they did not have the "whole" revelation as we have it.
If you have 4 parts/pieces of a pie, you don't have a whole pie until you put it together. Paul is talking about the revelation/word of God, not Jesus. We have it in the whole/completed form. They did not.
I do believe you are sadly mistaken.

The problem that I see is that the religious text you seem to hold the Father, the Son and the Spirit in subjection to, says itself that there is so much more to Jesus’s life and ministry than what is actually in the documents that historic church leaders collected and deemed scripture.

Anyway this collection of manuscripts didn’t become the book that is known as the Bible for quite sometime.

It is fairly obvious that Paul continued to struggle with his Pharisee tendencies in his life but there is no evidence that he is referencing a book that didn’t even exist yet.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I do believe you are sadly mistaken.

The problem that I see is that the religious text you seem to hold the Father, the Son and the Spirit in subjection to, says itself that there is so much more to Jesus’s life and ministry than what is actually in the documents that historic church leaders collected and deemed scripture.

Anyway this collection of manuscripts didn’t become the book that is known as the Bible for quite sometime.

It is fairly obvious that Paul continued to struggle with his Pharisee tendencies in his life but there is no evidence that he is referencing a book that didn’t even exist yet.
The Apostle Paul made it clear when he gave his opinion on a matter rather than what the Holy Spirit was guiding him to say. It still comes down to Christ choosing his Apostles and they were guided by the Holy Spirit which you refuse to recognize but do believe you, unlike them, actually speak directly with the Holy Spirit.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
The Apostle Paul made it clear when he gave his opinion on a matter rather than what the Holy Spirit was guiding him to say. It still comes down to Christ choosing his Apostles and they were guided by the Holy Spirit which you refuse to recognize but do believe you, unlike them, actually speak directly with the Holy Spirit.
Don’t forget that I also believe the Holy Spirit of God, the same Spirit that is in Jesus, who is one with the Father actually and literally has taken residence in my physical body, which is the temple of the living God.

I believe that is true for you as well.
 
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