Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
Are you implying that the Bible is exclusionary, and that what it teaches does not apply to all believers??
The Holy Spirit needs to tap you on your shoulder.
Religion
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The Holy Spirit needs to tap you on your shoulder.
And the Holy Spirit guided the Apostle Paul to write what kind of sins will cause you to lose your soul. Sins that Christians with their conversion are supposed to leave behind. But you deny that Christ's chosen Apostles are guided by the Holy Spirit when they write what you don't want to accept.
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Context is everything.
The Holy Spirit taps me on the shoulder every time I read his Word. How he taps me must be a lot different than how you claim he taps you.
bottomups
Bad Moon Risen'
fill in the blank economic system gives the poor jobs and quite often they remain poor even with a job. i even agree with you 50% of america is near poverty.
i think workers should all own their jobs. this means they own the profits and are more likely to be middle class.
jesus was not a capitalist.
Neither was anyone else 2000 years ago. Thank goodness you aren't in charge or you would run everything into the ground.
jesus would condone the abused worker endure under capitalism
christianity has been perverted to support capitalism.
be careful
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
We've discussed this passage before Fredo.
I'll run it through for your consideration again......A personal indwelling?
Nowhere does the Bible state that the Spirit dwells personally in a Christian. The Holy Spirit dwells in God's children. To deny this is to deny plain passages of Scripture. Paul wrote, "That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us" (2 Tim. 1:14; 1Corinthians 6:19, Rom. 8:9). But the issue is not whether the Spirit dwells in us, but
HOW does he dwell - personally or through faith?
God the Father resides in the Christian. John wrote, "God dwelleth in us" (1 Jn. 4:12; 13,15,16). Does God personally dwell in us? John explicitly states that God dwells in us, but I don't know ANYONE who maintains his personal Being is in us.
Jesus also dwells in us.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin (Rom. 8:10).
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you (Rom. 8:9).
Why is it that you make Christ's indwelling in Romans 8:10 representative (through instrumentality), but make the Holy Spirit's indwelling in Romans 8:9, the verse before, personal? There is no logic for this reasoning.
Think about it, a personal indwelling would necessitate an incarnation. When Jesus was born, he was God in the flesh. "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Matt. 1:23).
Jesus' Being, Entity or Person dwelled in his fleshly body, actually and totally. Thus, an incarnation. Why is not the same thing true if the Holy Spirit, who is God (Deity, Acts 5:3,4), dwells in our bodies personally and totally? There would be just as many incarnations as there are Christians. It would be just as proper to call a Christian "Emmanuel" as it would be to call Jesus by that name. If not, why not.
The Holy Spirit dwelling in us is by metonymy of speech. Metonymy of the cause is a figure of speech where the cause is put for the effect or the thing done. Many times the person acting is put for the thing done. This is true in regard to the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is put for his Effects, as in 2 Corinthians 3:6.... The Holy Spirit is put for his Operations.
... The Holy Spirit is put for the influences or Gifts of the Spirit, as in 1 Thessalonians 5:19. Quench not the Spirit.
... Spirit also denotes a Divine Power or energy, reigning in the soul of a renewed man..... More especially the Holy Spirit is put for those peculiar and extraordinary Gifts of the Spirit, which, for various uses, whether public or private, spiritual or temporal, are bestowed on man.
The Spirit is also put for revelations and visions.
Abraham told the rich man concerning his five brethren, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them" (Lk. 16:29). Moses and the prophets had been dead hundreds of years, but their writings prevailed. Though Moses and the prophets are stated, their writings are meant. Here is a simple example of cause for effect. Moses was read in the synagogues every sabbath day (Acts 15:21), that is, Moses' law was read.
By metonymy of speech it is easy to see how the Holy Spirit is said to be in all Christians at the same time, namely, through miraculous endowments and gifts during the days of miracles or by his influence and nature that are common to all Christians in every generation.
To the apostles Jesus said of the Spirit, "for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you" (Jn. 14:17). The Spirit was in the apostles through the power with which he endowed them. He was not literally in them. His power was. Just prior to his ascension Jesus said to his apostles, "And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued (clothed, WEW) with power from on high" (Lk. 24:49). The word "from" (ek) denotes the same thing as "of" (opo) in Acts 2:17.
Peter, quoting Joel, said, "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of (from, Marshall's Interlinear) my Spirit upon all flesh" (Acts 2:17). The pouring out was the miraculous power, not the Spirit himself. A person is not poured out. What the apostles received was from the Spirit as Acts 2:17 and Luke 24:49 clearly and succinctly states. This was also true of Cornelius and his household as well as all those in the church who received miraculous gifts ( Acts 10:45; 1 Cor. 12:4-11; Heb. 2:34). God said he would pour out from (apo) his Spirit upon all flesh.
We are to be filled with the Spirit. Paul writes, "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit" (Eph. 5:18). "Be filled" is translated from pleurousthe (present passive imperative) which has the import of a command. Being filled with the Spirit is a human effort, progressive in nature, and reflected in life by the fruit of the Spirit. The parallel verse in Colossians 3:16 shows we are filled with the Spirit through the medium of the word of God as we allow it to dwell in us richly.
If we received the Holy Spirit at baptism in his totality, as some interpret Acts 2:38, how could we be filled with the Spirit subsequent to conversion as taught in Ephesians 5:18? If we have the Holy Spirit personally and totally, how could we get any fuller than full?
The gift of the Spirit is no more the person of the Spirit than the gift of God and the gift of Christ are their person. Acts 2:38 states we receive the gift of the Spirit after repentance and baptism. Why do some conclude this is the person of the Spirit? Isn't it just as plausible that the gift is something the Holy Spirit gives us rather than himself?
Jesus said to the woman at Jacob's Well, "If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, arid he would have given thee living water" (Jn. 4:10). The gift is not God, but what he gives -living water. Paul wrote, "But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ" (Eph. 4:7). The gift is not Christ, but the office and function in the church, such as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (Eph. 4:11). Christ determines these, not ourselves.
In like-manner the Holy Spirit gives all those whose sins are forgiven through obedience to the gospel a gift, the gift of salvation ( Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21). Remission of sins in Acts 2:38 is a condition of salvation, having, therefore, to precede salvation in order to gain deliverance (salvation). Remission of sins and salvation are no more redundant than are "sanctified" and "justified" in 1 Corinthians 6:11. There is a logical sequence in both passages.
It is scriptural and logical to conclude that the Holy Spirit dwells in our hearts by faith. Paul said to the Ephesians, "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith" (Eph. 3:17). If Christ dwells in us by faith, why not the Holy Spirit by the same process?
It is inconsistent to contend that Jesus Christ, who is Deity, dwells in us by faith while maintaining the Holy Spirit, who is also Deity, the third person in the Godhead, dwells in us personally. We just as well say that Jesus dwells in us personally as to claim the Holy Spirit does. Both are the same in nature and essence. We are told that we don't even sense the indwelling, or experience it, but we just accept it by faith. This seems like a strange concept wherein a Divine Being resides in our bodies and he has no effect on us whatsoever in exercising his mind and characteristics.
No, it hasn't. You're a utopian trying to create heaven on Earth but utopians never get it right.
Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
Matthew 12:30-32: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
The person who repeatedly and without repentance rejects the Holy Spirit's testimony to Christ is the one who has blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
TLDR
Chris Hedges: The Suicide of the Liberal Church
This is an interesting article by Chris Hedges for truthdig. I am reposting it here with the author’s permission. Paul Tillich wrote that all institutions, including the church, are in…
gracejisunkim.wordpress.com
Oh? That's why we're all Christians? Jesus is going to make me rich? I better contact Heaven and tell them I must've been lost in the shuffle somewhere.View attachment 469005Chris Hedges: The Suicide of the Liberal Church
This is an interesting article by Chris Hedges for truthdig. I am reposting it here with the author’s permission. Paul Tillich wrote that all institutions, including the church, are in…
Chris Hedges: The Suicide of the Liberal Church
This is an interesting article by Chris Hedges for truthdig. I am reposting it here with the author’s permission. Paul Tillich wrote that all institutions, including the church, are in…
gracejisunkim.wordpress.com
sounds like a great book
If you're nuts.View attachment 469007Chris Hedges: The Suicide of the Liberal Church
This is an interesting article by Chris Hedges for truthdig. I am reposting it here with the author’s permission. Paul Tillich wrote that all institutions, including the church, are in…
sounds like a great book
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Of course it is.
I was hoping you thought it important enough. Oh well.
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
And now, deep thoughts from the ignorant.
Integrity
Binge Poster
Should we wear yellow tights to show off our physique?
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
I am still interested in how this works...after sins have been remitted through baptism then salvation granted and they become clean...does an individual lose their salvation when they commit the next sin...then gain it back when they repent?
Sin...repent...sin...repent...in...out...in...out...until the day they die
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