religion

[rickyb]

The world has always had it's problems. You don't have to look any further than the Old Testament to see how messed up people have been. Everyone has the choice to make whether to follow Christ or follow their own ways. I do my part to try and convince who I can that Christ is the way. I don't disown those who don't but I feel Christ is with me and it's up to me to do my best to glorify Him.

Weve never had nukes or man made global warming before

 

[tourists24]

Weve never had nukes or man made global warming before

But the hearts and desires of man has always been guided in the same manner today as it was thousands of years ago. Christ calls on people (if they follow Him) to all kinds of ministry work. I'm sure He has called on people to deal with politics and government life.

 

[rickyb]

But the hearts and desires of man has always been guided in the same manner today as it was thousands of years ago. Christ calls on people (if they follow Him) to all kinds of ministry work. I'm sure He has called on people to deal with politics and government life.

thousands of years ago we didnt have 2 things putting us at risk of extinction.

i dont get why politics and economics isnt an automatic for north american christians. but i think its coopted.

 

[tourists24]

thousands of years ago we didnt have 2 things putting us at risk of extinction.

i dont get why politics and economics isnt an automatic for north american christians. but i think its coopted.

My guess would be that true Christians are more concerned about bringing people to Christ first before trying to influence government policy. Co opting in the name of religion is not genuine

 

[BrownFlush]

Do you believe scriptural worship can include instrumental music to accompany singing?

If it is not found in the scripture, wouldn't that make it unscriptural?

"Praise the Lord with harp. Israel was at school, and used childish things to help her to learn; but in these days when Jesus gives us spiritual food, one can make melody without strings and pipes . . . . We do not need them. That would hinder rather than help our praise. Sing unto him. This is the sweetest and best music. No instrument like the human voice." (Spurgeon, Commentary on Ps. 42).

John Calvin: "Calvin is very express in his condemnation of instrumental music in connection with the public worship of the Christian church . . . In his commentary on the thirty-third Psalm he says: `I have no doubt that playing upon cymbals, touching the harp and viol, and all that kind of music, which is so frequently mentioned in the Psalms, was part of the . . . puerile instruction of the law. [But for believers now] musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting up of lamps, and the restoration of other shadows of the law. The Papists, therefore, have foolishly borrowed this, as well as many other things, from the Jews. Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise, but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostle is far more pleasing to him.'

"In his homily on 1 Sam. xviii. 1-9, he delivers himself emphatically . . . on the subject: What therefore was in use under the law is by no means entitled to our practice under the gospel . . . . Instrumental music, we therefore maintain, was tolerated only on account of the times and the people, because they were as boys, as the Sacred Scriptures speaketh"' (John L. Girardeau, Instrumental Music in the Public Worship of the Church, pp. 163-165).

Ulrich Zwingli, who "had read some of Luther's writings, had become convinced that the New Testament was above all other authority and that the church should be thoroughly purged of everything which did not square with its teachings. Far more than Luther, he wanted to break with the Roman tradition, and to reestablish the church squarely on apostolic foundations . . . . the silence of the Scriptures . . . for Zwingli . . . tended to be a prohibition. Therefore, under his preaching, . . . such Roman practices as Mass, the veneration of images and relics, the confessional, . . . fasting during Lent, clerical celibacy, and the use of organs, were abolished as having no warrant in Scripture" (Richard M. Pope, The Church and Its Culture, p. 355).

John Wesley: "I have no objection to instruments of music in our chapels, providing they are neither heard nor seen" (quoted by Adam Clarke, Clarke's Commentary, IV, 684).

 

[Integrity]

If it is not found in the scripture, wouldn't that make it unscriptural?

"Praise the Lord with harp. Israel was at school, and used childish things to help her to learn; but in these days when Jesus gives us spiritual food, one can make melody without strings and pipes . . . . We do not need them. That would hinder rather than help our praise. Sing unto him. This is the sweetest and best music. No instrument like the human voice." (Spurgeon, Commentary on Ps. 42).

John Calvin: "Calvin is very express in his condemnation of instrumental music in connection with the public worship of the Christian church . . . In his commentary on the thirty-third Psalm he says: `I have no doubt that playing upon cymbals, touching the harp and viol, and all that kind of music, which is so frequently mentioned in the Psalms, was part of the . . . puerile instruction of the law. [But for believers now] musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting up of lamps, and the restoration of other shadows of the law. The Papists, therefore, have foolishly borrowed this, as well as many other things, from the Jews. Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise, but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostle is far more pleasing to him.'

"In his homily on 1 Sam. xviii. 1-9, he delivers himself emphatically . . . on the subject: What therefore was in use under the law is by no means entitled to our practice under the gospel . . . . Instrumental music, we therefore maintain, was tolerated only on account of the times and the people, because they were as boys, as the Sacred Scriptures speaketh"' (John L. Girardeau, Instrumental Music in the Public Worship of the Church, pp. 163-165).

Ulrich Zwingli, who "had read some of Luther's writings, had become convinced that the New Testament was above all other authority and that the church should be thoroughly purged of everything which did not square with its teachings. Far more than Luther, he wanted to break with the Roman tradition, and to reestablish the church squarely on apostolic foundations . . . . the silence of the Scriptures . . . for Zwingli . . . tended to be a prohibition. Therefore, under his preaching, . . . such Roman practices as Mass, the veneration of images and relics, the confessional, . . . fasting during Lent, clerical celibacy, and the use of organs, were abolished as having no warrant in Scripture" (Richard M. Pope, The Church and Its Culture, p. 355).

John Wesley: "I have no objection to instruments of music in our chapels, providing they are neither heard nor seen" (quoted by Adam Clarke, Clarke's Commentary, IV, 684).

These guys are entitled to model the Pharisee’s in their handling of this religious practice. I wouldn’t recommend this but that is there call.

How far would you drive to find a church that didn’t use instruments in their church service if you had to?

Is a church that allows women to lead, a scriptural church?

 

[Integrity]

Do you honor the Sabbath?

 

[rickyb]

"the problem is white churches, white christians, white evangelicals"

 

[BrownFlush]

These guys are entitled to model the Pharisee’s in their handling of this religious practice. I wouldn’t recommend this but that is there call.

Modeling the Pharisees is your opinion and you constantly infer that anyone, including me, is a Pharisee if one "models" their position after the scripture and not after your ultra liberal progressive nonsense. It's old.

How far would you drive to find a church that didn’t use instruments in their church service if you had to?

What a stupid question and what's it to you? Right now, I drive 10 minutes to a church that doesn't.

Is a church that allows women to lead, a scriptural church?

Do you know of any place in the scripture where women "lead"?

 

[BrownFlush]

Do you honor the Sabbath?

Do you slaughter (sacrifice) bulls and goats?

 

[Integrity]

Do you slaughter (sacrifice) bulls and goats?

No.

 

[Integrity]

Modeling the Pharisees is your opinion and you constantly infer that anyone, including me, is a Pharisee if one "models" their position after the scripture and not after your ultra liberal progressive nonsense. It's old.

What a stupid question and what's it to you? Right now, I drive 10 minutes to a church that doesn't.

Do you know of any place in the scripture where women "lead"?

You brought up the driving example.
Yes.

 

[vantexan]

"the problem is white churches, white christians, white evangelicals"

The problem is white liberals with poisoned minds.

 

[tourists24]

@rickyb ... it's pretty simple once you feel it. This is how you start... all the rest comes next

 

[BrownFlush]

You brought up the driving example.

And you asked a stupid question from that.

Yes.

Where?

 

[BrownFlush]

No.

Why not?

 

[Integrity]

And you asked a stupid question from that.

Where?

In scripture, women are depicted in various leadership roles, including prophetesses, judges, evangelists, and leaders in the church. Notable figures include Deborah, who led Israel both as a prophet and a judge. Miriam, sister of Moses and Aaron, led the Israelites in worship after crossing the Red Sea. The New Testament also features women like Mary Magdalene, who became the first evangelist, according to Colleen Langlands.

Examples of Women in Leadership Roles in Scripture:

• Deborah:
  A prophetess and judge in Israel, Deborah led the Israelites in battle and also served as a wise counselor.
  
  
• Miriam:
  Miriam, sister of Moses and Aaron, led the women of Israel in song and dance after the Exodus.
  
  
• Mary Magdalene:
  Often considered the first evangelist, Mary Magdalene was one of the first to see the resurrected Jesus and shared the good news with the disciples, according to Colleen Langlands.
  
  
• Priscilla:
  A businesswoman in Corinth who, along with her husband Aquila, was a business owner who gave Paul lodging and perhaps a job.
  
  
• Phoebe:
  A deacon in the church at Cenchrea, indicating a position of authority and service.
  
  
• Huldah:
  A prophetess who advised King Josiah during a time of religious reform in the Old Testament.
  
  
• Esther:
  A queen who risked her own life to save her people from genocide.

 

[vantexan]

In scripture, women are depicted in various leadership roles, including prophetesses, judges, evangelists, and leaders in the church. Notable figures include Deborah, who led Israel both as a prophet and a judge. Miriam, sister of Moses and Aaron, led the Israelites in worship after crossing the Red Sea. The New Testament also features women like Mary Magdalene, who became the first evangelist, according to Colleen Langlands.

Examples of Women in Leadership Roles in Scripture:

• Deborah:
  A prophetess and judge in Israel, Deborah led the Israelites in battle and also served as a wise counselor.
  
  
• Miriam:
  Miriam, sister of Moses and Aaron, led the women of Israel in song and dance after the Exodus.
  
  
• Mary Magdalene:
  Often considered the first evangelist, Mary Magdalene was one of the first to see the resurrected Jesus and shared the good news with the disciples, according to Colleen Langlands.
  
  
• Priscilla:
  A businesswoman in Corinth who, along with her husband Aquila, was a business owner who gave Paul lodging and perhaps a job.
  
  
• Phoebe:
  A deacon in the church at Cenchrea, indicating a position of authority and service.
  
  
• Huldah:
  A prophetess who advised King Josiah during a time of religious reform in the Old Testament.
  
  
• Esther:
  A queen who risked her own life to save her people from genocide.

Some of that is inaccurate and some of it incomplete. Deborah for example had a couple of strong men backing her up and she was put in charge to shame Israel.

Phoebe wasn't a deaconess. Women didn't serve as deacons in the early Church.

 

[BrownFlush]

Mary Magdalene:
Often considered the first evangelist, Mary Magdalene was one of the first to see the resurrected Jesus and shared the good news with the disciples, according to Colleen Langlands.

Did she usurp authority over a man when she told the news? Did she push Peter aside on the day of Pentecost and tell him, "I'll preach this!" Was there a worship assembly or bible study going on?

Priscilla:
A businesswoman in Corinth who, along with her husband Aquila, was a business owner who gave Paul lodging and perhaps a job.

A business woman no doubt. And a good one. Doesn't mean she violated New Testament instructions when she was in worship. Both her and her husband were instrumental in converting Apollos. There was no assembly. Private discussions.

Phoebe:
A deacon in the church at Cenchrea, indicating a position of authority and service.

She was not a deacon. This is an office in the church that has qualifications for a male. She was called a deaconess. She was not in a position of authority. More probable noted for her service.
The feminine form of the word diakonos does not authorize an official class or order of "deaconesses" any more than the feminine form of the word presbuteros (translated elders) authorizes female elders.

What safety the scripture?

1 Corinthians 11:3- "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." This text places woman in submission to man. Submission does not mean inferiority; Jesus was equal to God (Phil. 2:6) but also subject to him (1 Cor. 11:3).
Many women are more intelligent than men. In many congregations, women more devoted to the Lord than many of the men. So, not saying that women are inferior to men because they must be submissive to them.

1 Corinthians 14:14- "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also said the law." This ordinance is for "all the churches of the saints" (14:33).
This commandment forbids women publicly addressing the entire assembly.

1 Timothy 2:11-12. "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be silence." The limitation placed on a woman's teaching by this passage is over a man."
She cannot be placed in a role in which she usurps authority over a man.

 

[BadIdeaGuy]

I think its a short coming in ppls interpretation of it. I think it makes religion relevant

If the world symbolically goes to hell, do you think ppl will believe in jesus more or less?

Easier to see a light in the dark, if one looks.