Republicare

[vantexan]

Yes our private system works great for the wealthy, both foreign and domestic. All systems have problems. Pre-ACA, I had a friend that is a Belgian citizen that was sick. His employer provided insurance stopped covering his diagnosis attempts here and he had to go back to Belgium for about year to get healthy again. It was messed up, our system failed and he had to go back to the awful socialist system to live.

I like the basics of the Swiss system. Everyone pays for basic coverage up to 8% of their income. If you don't buy coverage you get that 8% taxed by the government. If you want more coverage you can buy more. It's a harsher mandate that actually puts everyone in the risk pool.

And Switzerland has a small population that overall is much wealthier than our population. It's not a fair comparison and is why under scrutiny very few arguments comparing our country with others holds up.

 

[ImWaitingForTheDay]

When insurance companies dropped flood coverage, the Feds took over. When insurance companies decided that there was no profit in covering seniors, the Feds created Medicare. Now insurance companies are dropping out of the exchanges and 40% of counties have only one left. Time for the Feds to step up and offer a public option.

 

[vantexan]

We don't know that anything will work. Maybe free market does work. Wouldn't that also unburden American businesses of billions in expenses to drive the economy much like a tax cut? I mean, does an employer really owe an individual healthcare any more or less than the government?

That's above my paygrade to answer. As I said before, if they can come up with a better plan that works then why not? I didn't say such a plan is out there and if you are trying to move the argument to single payer then only if it works. Government plans tend to not work well with cost overruns. Business models are more efficient because they are profit driven. And people who fall into cracks are not left out in the cold. My stepdaughter developed a rare disease 15 years ago when she was 10. Was in the newspapers. The hospital that treated her in Kansas City took on the expense of it, didn't charge my wife anything. Over $100k in treatment. Yes I know people declared bankruptcy all the time due to medical bills. That's what should have been addressed instead of scrapping entire system to benefit relative few, harming most.

 

[vantexan]

When insurance companies dropped flood coverage, the Feds took over. When insurance companies decided that there was no profit in covering seniors, the Feds created Medicare. Now insurance companies are dropping out of the exchanges and 40% of counties have only one left. Time for the Feds to step up and offer a public option.

The insurance companies dropped flood coverage for people who chose to live on coasts or on floodplains. The insurers are being forced out of the exchanges by mandate to cover pre-existing conditions, which is costing them hundreds of millions in losses and would lead to bankruptcy. And Medicare, which I'm glad seniors have, has huge cost overruns that contribute greatly to our national debt.

 

[bbsam]

That's above my paygrade to answer. As I said before, if they can come up with a better plan that works then why not? I didn't say such a plan is out there and if you are trying to move the argument to single payer then only if it works. Government plans tend to not work well with cost overruns. Business models are more efficient because they are profit driven. And people who fall into cracks are not left out in the cold. My stepdaughter developed a rare disease 15 years ago when she was 10. Was in the newspapers. The hospital that treated her in Kansas City took on the expense of it, didn't charge my wife anything. Over $100k in treatment. Yes I know people declared bankruptcy all the time due to medical bills. That's what should have been addressed instead of scrapping entire system to benefit relative few, harming most.

No. I am saying that the system needs an entire overhaul and that is what Obamacare was aiming to start toward. If it were truly a "government takeover" as the right liked to scream, nobody would care if insurance companies pulled out. This was a market oriented attempt.

But it seems that until everyone is "staring down the barrel of a gun" nobody will get serious about fixing anything. The system isn't working now and it wasn't working before Obamacare.

One more time: why do we let the government dictate that companies of a certain size must provide healthcare? Why not scrap that mandate? Sometimes ya gotta step back to move forward.

 

[vantexan]

No. I am saying that the system needs an entire overhaul and that is what Obamacare was aiming to start toward. If it were truly a "government takeover" as the right liked to scream, nobody would care if insurance companies pulled out. This was a market oriented attempt.

But it seems that until everyone is "staring down the barrel of a gun" nobody will get serious about fixing anything. The system isn't working now and it wasn't working before Obamacare.

One more time: why do we let the government dictate that companies of a certain size must provide healthcare? Why not scrap that mandate? Sometimes ya gotta step back to move forward.

The goal ultimately was a government takeover. Or are you telling me that those who wrote the law weren't aware of what would happen if insurance companies were required to cover pre-existing conditions? Republicans, FOX News, conservative financial media etc were all saying this was going to happen in 2010. That insurers were going to be forced out of the market due to mandates. That premiums would rise across the country to cover costs. That implementation of key aspects were delayed until after elections to keep the public unaware of the negative aspects. And as predicted it's happening and soon if left in place single payer will be the only thing we can do. And none of this was by design you're saying?

 

[bbsam]

The goal ultimately was a government takeover. Or are you telling me that those who wrote the law weren't aware of what would happen if insurance companies were required to cover pre-existing conditions? Republicans, FOX News, conservative financial media etc were all saying this was going to happen in 2010. That insurers were going to be forced out of the market due to mandates. That premiums would rise across the country to cover costs. That implementation of key aspects were delayed until after elections to keep the public unaware of the negative aspects. And as predicted it's happening and soon if left in place single payer will be the only thing we can do. And none of this was by design you're saying?

Let's say it was by design. So what? The system was broken before the ACA, its broken now. Republicare does nothing to fix it. It's a tax break with "choice" as window dressing.

 

[newfie]

When insurance companies dropped flood coverage, the Feds took over. When insurance companies decided that there was no profit in covering seniors, the Feds created Medicare. Now insurance companies are dropping out of the exchanges and 40% of counties have only one left. Time for the Feds to step up and offer a public option.

or repeal Obamacare and stop fricking with free market enterprise

 

[vantexan]

Let's say it was by design. So what? The system was broken before the ACA, its broken now. Republicare does nothing to fix it. It's a tax break with "choice" as window dressing.

But you were saying before Republicans were making false claims, it was all market driven. This was created by people so caught up in their own aggrandizement they believed the public couldn't see through what they were trying to pull. And it's cost us big time. The jury is still out on Republicare but as Reince Priebus said the other day Republicans could come up with the cure for cancer and Democrats would still criticize it. No one is going to be completely happy with whatever they come up with but for starters I'm glad I won't have to pay a penalty for opting out of Obamacare.

 

[bbsam]

or repeal Obamacare and stop fricking with free market enterprise

What "free market "?

 

[bbsam]

But you were saying before Republicans were making false claims, it was all market driven. This was created by people so caught up in their own aggrandizement they believed the public couldn't see through what they were trying to pull. And it's cost us big time. The jury is still out on Republicare but as Reince Priebus said the other day Republicans could come up with the cure for cancer and Democrats would still criticize it. No one is going to be completely happy with whatever they come up with but for starters I'm glad I won't have to pay a penalty for opting out of Obamacare.

In my opinion, yes, Republicans were lying their asses off.

Opinions aside, how does Republiare aim to fix healthcare? Truth is, nobody knows and the only reason republicans senators kinda care is because of election 2018.

 

[It will be fine]

But you were saying before Republicans were making false claims, it was all market driven. This was created by people so caught up in their own aggrandizement they believed the public couldn't see through what they were trying to pull. And it's cost us big time. The jury is still out on Republicare but as Reince Priebus said the other day Republicans could come up with the cure for cancer and Democrats would still criticize it. No one is going to be completely happy with whatever they come up with but for starters I'm glad I won't have to pay a penalty for opting out of Obamacare.

So now that you're retired you're going to go without health insurance? And you think this is a benefit created by Republicare?

 

[vantexan]

In my opinion, yes, Republicans were lying their asses off.

Opinions aside, how does Republiare aim to fix healthcare? Truth is, nobody knows and the only reason republicans senators kinda care is because of election 2018.

Their predictions were lies? The ones that have and are coming true? Do you think the Wall Street Journal, written by folks who know how things work, was complicit with the Republicans in their analysis of the ACA? Were there Russians involved?

 

[bbsam]

Their predictions were lies? The ones that have and are coming true? Do you think the Wall Street Journal, written by folks who know how things work, was complicit with the Republicans in their analysis of the ACA? Were there Russians involved?

Obamacare isn't in a "death spiral". It isn't working as intended...or maybe it is.

 

[Sportello]

every plan will have extreme examples.

HOAX!

 

[Sportello]

Scrapping employer healthcare would put everyone at risk.

Not if there was single payer.

 

[bbsam]

Not if there was single payer.

That comes soon after everyone realizes the situation that politicians are willing to put poor and middle class in.

 

[bbsam]

Their predictions were lies? The ones that have and are coming true? Do you think the Wall Street Journal, written by folks who know how things work, was complicit with the Republicans in their analysis of the ACA? Were there Russians involved?

Is Obamacare in a ‘Death Spiral’?

 

[vantexan]

So now that you're retired you're going to go without health insurance? And you think this is a benefit created by Republicare?

No I'm going to live in countries that haven't gone insane with their medical care. Pay as I go. What hasn't been addressed in our system by anyone is medicine is seen by those that practice it, support it, administer it, etc as a vehicle to riches. The system is designed to remove as much wealth as possible from the elderly before they die. That wasn't addressed by the ACA or anyone else. In many countries doctors make a decent living without gouging. If one needs to see a doctor they pay $5 or so to see him. If they need to stay overnight at a hospital they might pay $20. Granted things cost more in the States but shouldn't cost the disproportionate amounts we pay here. And I'm not talking about socialized medicine. They've got that to a degree here in Mexico but it's overwhelmingly the poor who use it. Doctors in private practice here just don't gouge. It's not acceptable behavior in their society and that's true in many cultures. Our's is based on greed. It's the doctors, administrators, insurers, and even nurses, and other medical workers. There's money to be made in medicine because the group that needs it most spent a lifetime accumulating wealth and are desperate to remain healthy. OK but it'll cost you.

 

[bbsam]

No I'm going to live in countries that haven't gone insane with their medical care. Pay as I go. What hasn't been addressed in our system by anyone is medicine is seen by those that practice it, support it, administer it, etc as a vehicle to riches. The system is designed to remove as much wealth as possible from the elderly before they die. That wasn't addressed by the ACA or anyone else. In many countries doctors make a decent living without gouging. If one needs to see a doctor they pay $5 or so to see him. If they need to stay overnight at a hospital they might pay $20. Granted things cost more in the States but shouldn't cost the disproportionate amounts we pay here. And I'm not talking about socialized medicine. They've got that to a degree here in Mexico but it's overwhelmingly the poor who use it. Doctors in private practice here just don't gouge. It's not acceptable behave in their society and that's true in many cultures. Our's is based on greed. It's the doctors, administrators, insurers, and even nurses, and other medical workers. There's money to be made in medicine because the group that needs it most spent a lifetime accumulating wealth and are desperate to remain healthy. OK but it'll cost you.

Sounds like you would be in favor of the "death squads" Governor Palin envisioned coming out of the ACA.