Republicare

[It will be fine]

No I'm going to live in countries that haven't gone insane with their medical care. Pay as I go. What hasn't been addressed in our system by anyone is medicine is seen by those that practice it, support it, administer it, etc as a vehicle to riches. The system is designed to remove as much wealth as possible from the elderly before they die. That wasn't addressed by the ACA or anyone else. In many countries doctors make a decent living without gouging. If one needs to see a doctor they pay $5 or so to see him. If they need to stay overnight at a hospital they might pay $20. Granted things cost more in the States but shouldn't cost the disproportionate amounts we pay here. And I'm not talking about socialized medicine. They've got that to a degree here in Mexico but it's overwhelmingly the poor who use it. Doctors in private practice here just don't gouge. It's not acceptable behavior in their society and that's true in many cultures. Our's is based on greed. It's the doctors, administrators, insurers, and even nurses, and other medical workers. There's money to be made in medicine because the group that needs it most spent a lifetime accumulating wealth and are desperate to remain healthy. OK but it'll cost you.

Pay as you go is going without insurance.

 

[vantexan]

Sounds like you would be in favor of the "death squads" Governor Palin envisioned coming out of the ACA.

It's a known fact in countries with socialized medicine that other people decide how much if any is to be spent on your care relative to your situation. And that delays in receiving treatment often are tantamount to a death sentence. We see that with the V.A. here. Governor Palin wasn't for "death squads", was warning against "death panels" that decide your fate. Socialized medicine usually leads to shortages in doctors, and hard choices are made about getting treatment. Why would I be in favor of such things? Live where you can be treated by doctors for a reasonable amount. Doctors who often were trained in the U.S. or Europe. And don't go through life thinking the gov't needs to insure I'll live to 90 and be spry as a 30 yr old doing it. Death is part of everyone's existence, and there are no guarantees we'll die easy.

 

[vantexan]

Pay as you go is going without insurance.

Which is doable in many countries. I'm a retiree with limited means. Which does and will describe the majority of retirees. Frankly I'd rather drop dead at a reasonably healthy 72 than linger in misery until I'm 84. And that's what happens to too many. Medicines keep them alive far longer than would've happen 50 years ago and they spend their last years hurting in bed or a wheelchair. If you can live relatively healthy until 100 great. Not in the cards for everyone.

 

[It will be fine]

It's a known fact in countries with socialized medicine that other people decide how much if any is to be spent on your care relative to your situation. And that delays in receiving treatment often are tantamount to a death sentence. We see that with the V.A. here. Governor Palin wasn't for "death squads", was warning against "death panels" that decide your fate. Socialized medicine usually leads to shortages in doctors, and hard choices are made about getting treatment. Why would I be in favor of such things? Live where you can be treated by doctors for a reasonable amount. Doctors who often were trained in the U.S. or Europe. And don't go through life thinking the gov't needs to insure I'll live to 90 and be spry as a 30 yr old doing it. Death is part of everyone's existence, and there are no guarantees we'll die easy.

Pre-ACA it was the insurance companies that were deciding what coverage would be paid for. They worked hard at finding reasons to not be liable for payment.

There is scarcity in healthcare. There is no one addressing the supply side of the equation. It's a big part missing in the debate. With college and medical school getting ever more expensive that problem will continue to get worse.

 

[vantexan]

Pre-ACA it was the insurance companies that were deciding what coverage would be paid for. They worked hard at finding reasons to not be liable for payment.

There is scarcity in healthcare. There is no one addressing the supply side of the equation. It's a big part missing in the debate. With college and medical school getting ever more expensive that problem will continue to get worse.

But too often unnecessary treatment was being prescribed by doctors padding their bill. It's not just the insurers being mean or heartless. The whole system is based on greed, including the universities. They raise education costs at a much higher rate than inflation. They know they are the front door to a better life. OK but it'll cost you.

 

[bbsam]

It's a known fact in countries with socialized medicine that other people decide how much if any is to be spent on your care relative to your situation. And that delays in receiving treatment often are tantamount to a death sentence. We see that with the V.A. here. Governor Palin wasn't for "death squads", was warning against "death panels" that decide your fate. Socialized medicine usually leads to shortages in doctors, and hard choices are made about getting treatment. Why would I be in favor of such things? Live where you can be treated by doctors for a reasonable amount. Doctors who often were trained in the U.S. or Europe. And don't go through life thinking the gov't needs to insure I'll live to 90 and be spry as a 30 yr old doing it. Death is part of everyone's existence, and there are no guarantees we'll die easy.

What would happen if e had socialized medicine? Would doctors quit? Would that be horrible? Would doctors from Japan, India, China, Germany, England, Sweden, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Canada, and Mexico fill the void? Yeah. Probably.

 

[MAKAVELI]

No I'm going to live in countries that haven't gone insane with their medical care. Pay as I go. What hasn't been addressed in our system by anyone is medicine is seen by those that practice it, support it, administer it, etc as a vehicle to riches. The system is designed to remove as much wealth as possible from the elderly before they die. That wasn't addressed by the ACA or anyone else. In many countries doctors make a decent living without gouging. If one needs to see a doctor they pay $5 or so to see him. If they need to stay overnight at a hospital they might pay $20. Granted things cost more in the States but shouldn't cost the disproportionate amounts we pay here. And I'm not talking about socialized medicine. They've got that to a degree here in Mexico but it's overwhelmingly the poor who use it. Doctors in private practice here just don't gouge. It's not acceptable behavior in their society and that's true in many cultures. Our's is based on greed. It's the doctors, administrators, insurers, and even nurses, and other medical workers. There's money to be made in medicine because the group that needs it most spent a lifetime accumulating wealth and are desperate to remain healthy. OK but it'll cost you.

Now you're getting it Van. Obamacare is not the cause of skyrocketing healthcare costs. GREED IS.

 

[It will be fine]

There's also quite a bit of cost in the administration of all the various insurance plans. My father in law was a general practitioner, before he retired he had 2 employees tasked with submitting claims and getting paid by insurance. The massive confusion between what's covered, who's in what network etc. adds a lot to the costs of services. With single payer the office receptionist could handle that duty without the additional staff. Republicare, especially the Cruz amendment, would make this problem worse.

 

[vantexan]

What would happen if e had socialized medicine? Would doctors quit? Would that be horrible? Would doctors from Japan, India, China, Germany, England, Sweden, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Canada, and Mexico fill the void? Yeah. Probably.

Yes, 60 Minutes did a report on a nursing shortage in Great Britain. Brought up how South African nurses were being brought in to fill void. And how it was hurting South Africa doing so. Their point is that wealthy Western nations were poaching from poor countries and causing brain drain. OK to do?

 

[vantexan]

Now you're getting it Van. Obamacare is not the cause of skyrocketing healthcare costs. GREED IS.

But Obamacare exacerbated the problem.

 

[MAKAVELI]

But Obamacare exacerbated the problem.

I think Obamacare actually helped expose the problem not exacerbate it.

 

[vantexan]

I think Obamacare actually helped expose the problem not exacerbate it.

Tell that to the many millions who are paying through the nose to insure their families.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Tell that to the many millions who are paying through the nose to insure their families.

Tell that to the millions that couldn't afford coverage but now can with Obamacare.

 

[vantexan]

Tell that to the millions that couldn't afford coverage but now can with Obamacare.

A lot more are getting hurt by Obamacare than helped. You can say millions are getting helped by Obamacare but how many are actually using it on a regular basis? Meanwhile many times more are having to shell out more than they can afford and many have to give up insurance altogether because they can't afford the premiums. Wait until we go to single payer and and as usual there are constant cost overruns that we can't afford combined with poor service and lack of service. Beware anyone saying the government will get it right because they rarely do.

 

[vantexan]

Tell that to the millions that couldn't afford coverage but now can with Obamacare.

P.S. Are they affording it or is it being given to them?

 

[MAKAVELI]

P.S. Are they affording it or is it being given to them?

P.S. Semantics.

 

[MAKAVELI]

A lot more are getting hurt by Obamacare than helped. You can say millions are getting helped by Obamacare but how many are actually using it on a regular basis? Meanwhile many times more are having to shell out more than they can afford and many have to give up insurance altogether because they can't afford the premiums. Wait until we go to single payer and and as usual there are constant cost overruns that we can't afford combined with poor service and lack of service. Beware anyone saying the government will get it right because they rarely do.

Those that are getting hurt are do to everyone getting a piece of the pie as you posted earlier. One of the very aspects that make this country great (capitalism) hurts us as well.

 

[vantexan]

Those that are getting hurt are do to everyone getting a piece of the pie as you posted earlier. One of the very aspects that make this country great (capitalism) hurts us as well.

And if you are earning your pie you are out in the marketplace striving, which is what keeps this country moving. Those that work hard only to see their costs go way up while others are having insurance given to them, well, that's not capitalism. I am 100% for seeing the elderly and infirm be assisted, even provided for. But the able bodied, mentally stable should their earn their way. The ACA is another social justice program gone off the rails.

 

[MAKAVELI]

And if you are earning your pie you are out in the marketplace striving, which is what keeps this country moving. Those that work hard only to see their costs go way up while others are having insurance given to them, well, that's not capitalism. I am 100% for seeing the elderly and infirm be assisted, even provided for. But the able bodied, mentally stable should their earn their way. The ACA is another social justice program gone off the rails.

There are millions that work hard every day and still could not afford healthcare without Obamacare.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Major insurance groups call part of health bill 'unworkable'