socialism / capitalism

[wkmac]

Yet we impose our system on others on the grounds of some false notion of exceptionalism.

BTW: Lose the all caps. Bad manners.

 

[oldngray]

 

[wkmac]

See what happens when you've been over exposed to Sarah Palin. The ability to offer insightful comment on a topic just completely disappears. Another living example of why I think her longterm impact is so harmful.

 

[realbrown1]

This coming a person who draws medicare and social security from the government treasury.

TOS.

You buy medicare and social security through a lifetime of payroll deductions.
Payroll deductions that you can not opt out of.
Another stupid post by our resident P.O.S.

 

[wkmac]

When a front-running presidential contender tells the country that thanks to Barack Obama, “[w]e are only inches away from ceasing to be a free market economy,” one is left scratching one’s head. How refreshing it is, then, to hear a prominent establishment economist—a Nobel laureate yet—tell it straight:

The managerial state has assumed responsibility for looking after everything from the incomes of the middle class to the profitability of large corporations to industrial advancement. This system . . . is . . . an economic order that harks back to Bismarck in the late nineteenth century and Mussolini in the twentieth: corporatism.

Columbia University Professor Edmund S. Phelps, who won the 2006 Nobel Prize in economics, and his coauthor, Saifedean Ammous, assistant professor of economics at the Lebanese American University, write that the U.S. economy ceased to be a free market some time ago, yet the free market is blamed for the economic crisis. (The real question is whether the American economy was ever really free.)

Phelps and Ammous condemn corporatism unequivocally:

In various ways, corporatism chokes off the dynamism that makes for engaging work, faster economic growth, and greater opportunity and inclusiveness. It maintains lethargic, wasteful, unproductive, and well-connected firms at the expense of dynamic newcomers and outsiders, and favors declared goals such as industrialization, economic development, and national greatness over individuals’ economic freedom and responsibility. Today, airlines, auto manufacturers, agricultural companies, media, investment banks, hedge funds, and much more has [sic] at some point been deemed too important to weather the free market on its own, receiving a helping hand from government in the name of the “public good.”

It’s great that their list includes the corporate state’s declaration of goals. Too many people are willing to accept government-set goals (such as energy independence) so long as the “private sector” is induced to achieve them. Regardless of how the goals are achieved, if government sets them, that’s statism.​

Capitalism, Corporatism and the Freed Market

 

[moreluck]

 

[rickyb]

most american wars would be fighting for capitalism and resources, not freedom or democracy.

 

[rickyb]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...-51-all-american-workers-make-less-30000-year

Capitalism has no loyalty to american workers. jobs have been outsourced, wages have fallen, and working conditions worsen.

to quote: "if you have no debt and you also have ten dollars in your pocket that gives you a greater net worth than about 25 percent of the entire country."

"You can find the report that the Social Security Administration just released right here. The following are some of the numbers that really stood out for me…

• -38 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000 last year.
• -51 percent of all American workers made less than $30,000 last year.
• -62 percent of all American workers made less than $40,000 last year.
• -71 percent of all American workers made less than $50,000 last year.

That first number is truly staggering. The federal poverty level for a family of five is $28,410, and yet almost 40 percent of all American workers do not even bring in $20,000 a year."

AND

"According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 49 percent of all Americans now live in a home that receives money from the government each month."



socialism is worker control of jobs. some people think you have to give the government control of industry first, and then hand it over to workers. and some people think you dont do that, and just have a worker takeover immediately.

im quite impressed with the presidential candidates in the lead. i think sanders, trump, and maybe ben carson and fiorina would be better than any president since 1980. hilary will be worse than obama but better than w bush.

 

[rickyb]

 

[rickyb]

again chris hedges confirms above numbers:

"Fifty-one percent of working Americans now make less than $30,000 a year, a new study by the Social Security Administration reported. Forty percent are making less than $20,000 a year. The federal government considers a family of four living on an income of less than $24,250 to be in poverty."

capitalism failing increasing numbers of americans.

capitalism working in the interests of a small fraction of hte population

 

[Babagounj]

Here's how I explain the difference ;
If you are for socialism then every time you buy something be it a candy bar , a car , or a house you are required to buy 2 or more .
One you can keep and the others you must give away to strangers .

 

[Sportello]

Here's how I explain the difference ;
If you are for socialism then every time you buy something be it a candy bar , a car , or a house you are required to buy 2 or more .
One you can keep and the others you must give away to strangers .

You are not a clever man.

 

[bottomups]

I pay federal gas taxes for infrastructure in Alaska that I will never use. That sounds like socialism to me.

 

[oldngray]

again chris hedges confirms above numbers:

"Fifty-one percent of working Americans now make less than $30,000 a year, a new study by the Social Security Administration reported. Forty percent are making less than $20,000 a year. The federal government considers a family of four living on an income of less than $24,250 to be in poverty."

capitalism failing increasing numbers of americans.

capitalism working in the interests of a small fraction of hte population

You can thank Obama for his socialist policies.

 

[rickyb]

Here's how I explain the difference ;
If you are for socialism then every time you buy something be it a candy bar , a car , or a house you are required to buy 2 or more .
One you can keep and the others you must give away to strangers .

but thats exactly how capitalism works: a worker makes $20 in value per hour and gives $15 away to the employer. or as you say "One you can keep and the others you must give away to strangers"

ditto for slavery, state socialism, and feudalism.

socialists who want workers to own and control the jobs they work in, think that workers should be the ones making the decisions about how, where, why, to run the jobs, and that workers should be the ones deciding what to do with the value they produce.

 

[Babagounj]

You missed the point .
Capitalism put that dollar in your pocket .
Socialism means you have to spend that dollar for the benefit of others , not yourself .

 

[rickyb]

I pay federal gas taxes for infrastructure in Alaska that I will never use. That sounds like socialism to me.

ur sure thats not taxation?

 

[rickyb]

You missed the point .
Capitalism put that dollar in your pocket .
Socialism means you have to spend that dollar for the benefit of others , not yourself .

then why did the employer hire you if he wasnt gonna take money from you???

 

[Babagounj]

then why did the employer hire you if he wasnt gonna take money from you???

strange response .
Employees are hired to help the business owner accomplish preset goals that ensure that the business will continue to survive .
You receiving a monetary payment is your reward for said supplied labor .( minus State , Local , FICA , & FICA MEDICARE payments )

 

[rickyb]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinaleda

this town has 0% unemployment in a country with 25% unemployment. The workers earn more than double minimum wage at the farming cooperative. It has no police dept so it saves $350k / year. and it has no mortgages; other people help out to build new houses. brand name corporations are not allowed to set up business here. the workers participate in the decision making process at the farming cooperative, unlike capitalism where you typically have no say at your job.