SPORH Harrassment

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Sign it, don't sign it-----you are still responsible for the safety and performance of your helper.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

I can tell you it isn't safety, ever.
All they are ever thinking about is liability.
That is why they try and have us sign a driver helper certification, which gives them an avenue to shift the blame on the driver when something goes wrong.
Please people, don't sign these forms.

Thats right...dont sign a dam thing! how are you supposed to keep an eye on your helper? When you have to watch where you are stepping?

 

[oldngray]

If you do it "their" way and drop off the helper to deliver by themselves how are you supposed to watch them?

 

[chuchu]

Sign it, don't sign it-----you are still responsible for the safety and performance of your helper.

I permanently logged out of BC today but i had to respond to your post.
You are responsible to tell your helper(s) what the rules are and if they don't adhere to them it's your responsibility to report the issue(s) to management.
It's not my responsibility as a driver to force someone who wasn't properly trained by UPS to work faster when I have no control over their employment. Do we want them to be efficient? Heck yes but we didn't hire them, HR did so it's their problem if they don't work out.

Your comment is about the dumbest thing I have read here lately. If you were management it would make more sense why you would lay that burden on drivers already maxed out. Most drivers in our building don't want a helper because if they can't or won't " perform" or work safely it becomes "our problem"?

I don't think so.

Again, you can tell a helper what the rules are but you have NO power over that individual to MAKE them obey them. All you can do is report bad work ethics and unsafe work methods to management. It's their problem from that point and if they fail to fix the issues I'm not going to stress myself out with problems I can't control. The last thing I need is to have a slow and unsafe helper angry with me all day.

Thankfully, you are not a steward or your fellow workers would be screwed.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It is not that hard to get a less than motivated helper to work up to your standards.

 

[chuchu]

It is not that hard to get a less than motivated helper to work up to your standards.

Who said they were motivated or less than motivated? They are not in progression for a full time job and a lot of them are off the street with no understanding of our "standards". And if your statement was true I guess no one would have a problem scratching to be full time. Right.

Helping them to understand what they need to be doing during peak to get the job done safely and efficiently is one thing. But your post said it was the drivers responsibility to make them work safe and efficiently and that's bull crap. All we can do after that is report it immediately to management


We can tell them, we can not make them.
End of story.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We can tell and if we are unable to make them we can drop them off with cab fare.

 

[Bubblehead]

Sign it, don't sign it-----you are still responsible for the safety and performance of your helper.

I'm responsible for the helpers safety while they are riding in my package car.
That's where it begins and ends.
What they do off the truck is not my responsibility.

If what you say were the case, a helper would be of no help to me.
I wouldn't be able to leave them anywhere or turn around the truck while they walk of the stops.
Any member of management is free to trail behind my helper and myself, but rest assured if there is a problem with how the helper is performing, that problem is not mine.
Management is free to hire, fire and assign me any helper they like and their training or lack thereof, rests on someone elses shoulders.
All that they will get from me is friendly advice and reminders.

 

[Catatonic]

I'm responsible for the helpers safety while they are riding in my package car.
That's where it begins and ends.
What they do off the truck is not my responsibility.

If what you say were the case, a helper would be of no help to me.
I wouldn't be able to leave them anywhere or turn around the truck while they walk of the stops.
Any member of management is free to trail behind my helper and myself, but rest assured if there is a problem with how the helper is performing, that problem is not mine.
Management is free to hire, fire and assign me any helper they like and their training or lack thereof, rests on someone elses shoulders.
All that they will get from me is friendly advice and reminders.

​I wonder about that.

 

[Bubblehead]

​I wonder about that.

I wonder why you would wonder that???
Actually I don't agitator 3.

 

[Catatonic]

I wonder why you would wonder that???

You've never been friendly on BC as I remember.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Because of the infinite variables of the day-to-day operations SPORH is simply not recognized by the Union,nor have any SPORH cases been found in favour of the company in my Region. The reason being it is VERY easy to show that the routes are no longer the same as Pre EDD/PAS i.e. the Same stops ,Same Area Day in and Day Out.
Myself and several others had 3 day 'Lock In' rides this year and as we all have several years of working Safely and by The Methods our numbers looked little to no better even with Manicured Loads,no Bulk etc. My center was time 'Virtually' Time Studied earlier this year and several routes 'Lost Time' . Of course management has wanted to whip us into going faster to 'make up' the time...yet another reason teh Union dosen't recognize numbers that can be changed at whim

​I also would like to see case numbers of the drivers you say have been terminated for SPORH related issues. I'd like to see the entire story

BUG:

You seem to be implying that SPORH is an arbitrary number that can be changed on a whim. It is not based on how much one has, how far one drives, or any of that, not drastic differences, anyway (talking about a given route). How fast is a driver observed delivering packages when sticking to the methods. It's akin to telling someone to run from point A to point B while you time them with a stop watch. Management can only "tweak" that so much on a time card. Over the course of a week, your avg SPORH shouldn't change much; day-to-day is a different story.

Even your example from the rides this year speak to that, as you said yourself your "numbers didn't change". That demonstrates you are working by the methods even with the low SPORH. Now whether they'll adjust the allowances to go with your SPORH on the route is a different story.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I think we can all agree that if a driver is able to demonstrate a 19.0 while on a 3 day drive only to go back to a 16.0 when he is by himself that there is something that needs to change.

 

[oldngray]

SPORH can change dramatically from day to day depending on dispatch. What stops you have and where they are (and how much of it is business), changes in pickups, miles, and so on. They should only be able to bring up SPORH if it is almost identically dispatched days. And it is very easy to look worse on paper when they are riding with you by following methods and taking zero shortcuts, even working at a good pace.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I am talking about a 19.0 w/company vs 16.0 alone.

Anything 1.0 or less is negligible.

 

[oldngray]

I could easily vary 1.5 to 2 from day to day with no difference in over allow. And I almost never ran the SPORH they wanted and could usually be under plan (until the last time they messed with numbers when I magically went from half hour under to half hour over).

 

[BigUnionGuy]

BUG:

You seem to be implying that SPORH is an arbitrary number that can be changed on a whim. It is not based on how much one has, how far one drives, or any of that, not drastic differences, anyway (talking about a given route). How fast is a driver observed delivering packages when sticking to the methods. It's akin to telling someone to run from point A to point B while you time them with a stop watch. Management can only "tweak" that so much on a time card. Over the course of a week, your avg SPORH shouldn't change much; day-to-day is a different story.

Even your example from the rides this year speak to that, as you said yourself your "numbers didn't change". That demonstrates you are working by the methods even with the low SPORH. Now whether they'll adjust the allowances to go with your SPORH on the route is a different story.

I don't know why you addressed me with someone else's post.... but, I'm game.

I think we can all agree that if a driver is able to demonstrate a 19.0 while on a 3 day drive only to go back to a 16.0 when he is by himself that there is something that needs to change.

That certainly throws up red flags....


But, other things usually precipitate a ride to begin with.

It can be as simple as.... unrealistic expectations from a change in dispatch.

Or, some burner smoking the route.... when the driver is on vacation.

SPORH can change dramatically from day to day depending on dispatch. What stops you have and where they are (and how much of it is business), changes in pickups, miles, and so on. They should only be able to bring up SPORH if it is almost identically dispatched days. And it is very easy to look worse on paper when they are riding with you by following methods and taking zero shortcuts, even working at a good pace.

Couldn't have said it any better.


The best part.... there are no performance or production standards.

You can't be held accountable to "just" a SPORH. Not in the Central Region.


I always laugh.... when I read on this forum about "lock-in-rides".

That is about as mythical as the "lock-ness monster".



​-Bug-

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I always laugh.... when I read on this forum about "lock-in-rides".

That is about as mythical as the "lock-ness monster".



​-Bug-

Loch Ness Ride. That's a good one.

 

[chuchu]

I think we can all agree that if a driver is able to demonstrate a 19.0 while on a 3 day drive only to go back to a 16.0 when he is by himself that there is something that needs to change.

I don't think "we all can agree" on that statement.

There are a lot of variables in SPOHR and many members who have had three day rides know how the loads get tailored.

There you go again, putting all the blame on us worthless and dishonest drivers. We're even responsible for our helpers SPOHR?

Give a driver the same load quality, pieces, weather, stops count per mile, AM time, CODs, etc and we may have apples for apples. But, us drivers who have been targeted for three day rides know what reality is.

Don't condemn good drivers with a flippant, casual statement like that. Given the same variables every day we can say the overallowed may be similar. That normally isn't the case in most all of the three day rides given and most three day rides occur after a driver files for 9.5s. Then, it gets ugly.

 

[3 done 3 to go]

I think we can all agree that if a driver is able to demonstrate a 19.0 while on a 3 day drive only to go back to a 16.0 when he is by himself that there is something that needs to change.

True but, management will alter the load in most cases also. Like give you easy side streets. When they ride with you. Where on a normal day they won't. Just to make themselves look better. On paper. It also gives them ammo to try to use against the driver. This is why the driver should have a book. Write down all your info everyday. Especially when they are actually with you.