Dracula
Package Car is cake compared to this...
And are loved by management for their superb numbers. And generally hated by their fellow drivers.
SPORH Harrassment
- Thread starter BCFan
- Start date
And are loved by management for their superb numbers. And generally hated by their fellow drivers.
Anonymous 10
Guest
Me too. Think of the threads we could derail. You should see how I derail things in my building. I liken myself to the clown in the rodeo sometimes.
I realize threads can get off topic --I am also guilty.
The main point of this tread was SPOR harassment ----Simply stated if you are doing the job ----you can easily stop the Harrassment .
If you are a slacker ---one way or the other --it will eventually be worked out.
Now off topic --just depends on where you are in life. I am a 36 yr of Service -retired ups'er.
"Older Drivers"--Upsers and Teamsters --always told me how tough the job was --when they were out there--long days --furniture deliveries --paper delivery records with carbon paper--wet frozen ink pens -leaving the barn every day because the belt to bin to car preload always ended late --dispatched with "piece count" loads --four to five hundred packages --crushed into a p400 with net-edge load packages in the front --and orange bulk cards for all the bulk out of the back.
P400's with piss in the safes --that you had to collect thousands of dollars in singles for COD'S---paper yellow call tags, paper one shots --never counted in stop total-paper driver tracers --same OJS and over supervision ---with real supervisors who drove for many years--long wool pants in the hot muggy summers--scheduled "fur call" pickups and Saturday specials in many areas --guilty till proven innocent --dopey mgrs. --with the power to fire or suspend immediately --a union that was slow to spend money on lawyers and arbitration --no grievance panels --They could go on and on and on. Lower pay and less benefits etc etc
I always listened with respect. I was always thankful they passed on a profitable solid Company that provided me with a job with good pay and benefits.
I never referred to them as "relics"
When some of you retire -- --you will see it the same way.
When Drivers are complaining about "beaming" their deliveries and how sore it makes their thumbs ---calling you "relics" and "out of touch" "Do not know how hard it is to work at UPS.
Never DISRESPECT the older --wiser --been there done it Retired UPS'er ---It will be you one day --No doubt about it !!!
Thank you to all the hard working UPS people of today for allowing me to continue to enjoy my retirement ---you too TOS !!
The term "RELIC" is used not to describe you personally, but your thought process about the way UPS is operated. The word "RELIC" comes from the latin Reliquiae, meaning "remains"
or something left behind.
Your experience, while honorable during "your" time, no longer applies to todays UPS. Going back into the way back machine and trying to use the methodology of that time to todays UPS is not practical, so, your experience has been "left behind".
SPOHR is an issue that is not calculated properly in todays UPS, nor is it a factor that can be used successfully to determine a fair days work from the comfort of a tiny office at the center looking at mapquest.
Just because on a map all the streets look tight doesnt mean they can all be delivered within the same time parameters. On one side of the street I can have a pure DR area and across the street I will have signature only condos with 4 flights of stairs and long walks because I have to park up to 100 yards away yet, someone in IE will believe that I can make the stops in the same time. They make a calculation on spohr based on these false numbers and then wonder why you can hit them at the end of the day.
Then, the "OJS" is scheduled because as a driver, I must be doing something wrong, only to find out at the end of the day that the spohr has to be reduced.
If those knuckleheads who make these calculations actually had to get on car, we would see a different UPS, but then again, they wont, because that would mean more cars and drivers in the longrun, so instead, they just pay the excessive overtime and injure and wear out the drivers.
Todays UPS isnt your experience Island. You did your time and I imagine honorably. Its your perspective that has been left behind, not your service.
Today, the operation is so jacked up its not even funny. In todays UPS, they dont even bother to teach 3/40 methods anymore. Not even the supervisors know what that even means. Today, we have to search the ENTIRE car just to find one package at times. We have to reach beyond the 30 inches to find all the pieces to a multi piece stop on any given shelf. Some could be in postion, some could be on the shelf below, some on the floor, some in the isle, some at the rear. Either way, DELAY DELAY DELAY is the way we do business today while some geek sits at a desk wondering why the day went 11.45 paid.
I am sure, as a veteran, coming into this system today, you would lose your mind at the inefficiency of preload, dispatch and package. The first thing you would want to do is make changes, cause with your experience you could make that call, but then you find that your hands are tied by Atlanta and you are forced to fail.
At the end of the day, all you can do is apologize to your drivers for having to screw them for the day.
Thats todays UPS operations.
Hope this clarifies my explanation.
Peace and enjoy your retirement.
TOS
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Think of the solutions WE would come up with --and the challenges we could give to the Union and the Company !!
I wrote about this last month when we had one of our Run and Guns speeding around town wrecklessly just to be in by 5pm everyday no matter if he has 100 or 200 stops. This clown runs his ass off, skips lunch by prerecording stops and running them off during lunch, skips all breaks, tosses packages from short distances to shorten his walks all with the knowledge of the managers that he does this. But nothing is done to stop him because he breaks the route and the manager would never stop the practice because his "under" helps to reduce his "over".
Well, despite the knowledge of practice and drivers telling the company about his actions, there was ONE thing that has stopped his actions and forced change.
He was making a delivery parked on the wrong side of the street against the opposite curb, jumped into the package car, fired it up, put it in drive, hammered the gas, stayed in the wrong lane going to the next stop on the wrong side of the street and hit a giant Oak tree branch demolishing the package car. Blew out both windshields, broke the side glass, broke the left side mirror bracket and TOTALED the package car.
Then, he failed to report the accident to the company. Time of accident 2.30pm, and then taped his windshields back onto the car, taped on the mirror bracket, taped up the side glass window and continued to operate the package car for the day, returning to the building at the same time where he THEN reported the accident to the company.
He was NOT fired for non report, he was NOT fired for totalling the pkg car for being unsafe, he was NOT fired for gross negligence, he was NOT fired for not following company proceedures for a serious accident.
And why?
Because he RUNS HIS ASH OFF and breaks the company's stupid numbers. Now it cost the company a package car, so what did he really save the company?
The company always looks the other way when they have ONE driver who crushes numbers while the rest of the drivers are doing the job safely and properly and going into the hole.
Too bad Atlanta will never hear of this accident.
TOS
Indeed, but no one at UPS or the Union would listen to us. "its all figured in".
TOS
pretender
Well-Known Member
The main point of this tread was SPOR harassment ----Simply stated if you are doing the job ----you can easily stop the Harrassment .
If you are a slacker ---one way or the other --it will eventually be worked out.
Now off topic --just depends on where you are in life. I am a 36 yr of Service -retired ups'er.
"Older Drivers"--Upsers and Teamsters --always told me how tough the job was --when they were out there--long days --furniture deliveries --paper delivery records with carbon paper--wet frozen ink pens -leaving the barn every day because the belt to bin to car preload always ended late --dispatched with "piece count" loads --four to five hundred packages --crushed into a p400 with net-edge load packages in the front --and orange bulk cards for all the bulk out of the back.
P400's with piss in the safes --that you had to collect thousands of dollars in singles for COD'S---paper yellow call tags, paper one shots --never counted in stop total-paper driver tracers --same OJS and over supervision ---with real supervisors who drove for many years--long wool pants in the hot muggy summers--scheduled "fur call" pickups and Saturday specials in many areas --guilty till proven innocent --dopey mgrs. --with the power to fire or suspend immediately --a union that was slow to spend money on lawyers and arbitration --no grievance panels --They could go on and on and on. Lower pay and less benefits etc etc
I always listened with respect. I was always thankful they passed on a profitable solid Company that provided me with a job with good pay and benefits.
I never referred to them as "relics"
When some of you retire -- --you will see it the same way.
When Drivers are complaining about "beaming" their deliveries and how sore it makes their thumbs ---calling you "relics" and "out of touch" "Do not know how hard it is to work at UPS.
Never DISRESPECT the older --wiser --been there done it Retired UPS'er ---It will be you one day --No doubt about it !!!
Thank you to all the hard working UPS people of today for allowing me to continue to enjoy my retirement ---you too TOS !!
I can relate to everything you listed, except the furniture deliveries and fur calls. I can also remember driving a tractor that was so cold in the winter that you had to wear a snowmobile suit. We did our share of complaining--however, once you retire you do gain a different perspective, and can appreciate how well we had it compared to many other jobs.
So next time someone else hits a tree branch, our friend the runner and gunner has established PAST PRACTICE!
pretender
Well-Known Member
Me too--407 has strong opinions, and we probably disagree more than agree. However, he doesn't take himself too seriously, and I bet we would have a great time over a few beers!
Anonymous 10
Guest
I can relate and you can relate. The problem when you are dealing with a TOS is he never will. He an angry person who thinks his education hat ever it is makes him smarter than everyone else. According to him in a neg rep I'm a high school dropout. I'm not but whatever. She's just crazy
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
1989
Well-Known Member
I don't carry a scale with me, do you? I wouldn't know if the pkg is 140, 150, or 160. I don't dead lift heavy pkgs. my point is we do occasionally handle pkgs over 150.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Tos,
Going off topic again===Like when the Grievance register is cleared by EVERY local union --Dec or Jan---How is it cleared ?? Who gets the money ?? Who cuts the deal ??
Is the Union Guilty ?? The Company ? Or do you believe thousands of grievances are never heard --and both are happy ??? Is that also "figured in" ?
p.s.
I have not heard from the I.E. expert ==Pretzel Man in a very long time . He would tend to disagree with your description of work measurement ---and how every stop on your area has the same time allowance ---rather that an allowance that has taken all stops on that area into the equasion.
But of course --those people with Engineering degrees are just nerds and could never understand the complexities of work measurement. Both of you believe that you are experts on what the other one does --???? Wow that in itself is complex !!
Bottom line --with all the technology --You still do the same job as all of us through the decades: Pick-Up and Deliver Packages..
Sorry -again to be off thread topic !!
See you soon in Current events !!
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upschuck
Well-Known Member
Good point, but it would have been audited and marked by the time it reached PC in my center.
Besides, if I can lift package with one hand, it is under 150, if I need two hands, then it's over.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The philosophy in my center is if the package made it all the way to the center level that it will be delivered.
I wonder how much of a surcharge UPS adds for overweight packages.
upschuck
Well-Known Member
I don't touch a package over 150. Customer has to come pick up. We have even had UPS freight come pu a package to transport the rest of the way, since it was only halfway to destination.
I know if adjustment is made from under 70 to over 70 is a good chunk of change, don't know about overweight.
I know if adjustment is made from under 70 to over 70 is a good chunk of change, don't know about overweight.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
I assume, you are not going to answer my previous question.
So.... I will ask you another.
Really ??
Are you sure about that ??
That would be the sales lead of the century.
BTW,
I had to laugh, at your comment about a sup walking on a drivers heels. That's old school.
Nowadays.... in my Local.... the ride would end right there.
The driver would call the Police, and file charges for assault. Food for thought.
-Bug-
C
chuchu
Guest
Sorry BUG, I wasn't going over the past posts.
First, the management agreed with the local to one ride per twelve months years ago. I believe Art 4 was used since. The only language I've seen on the one ride in twelve months is with more than one sup. I wasn't involved in the 1/yr agreement but I've seen it applied. It was my guess that it prevailed elsewhere.
Second, the account I landed was Quest/LCI Communications and yes, it was a MAJOR loss for FedEx. If you need the rest of the story you can PM me. They moved from our area to Columbus where their regional base was located.
BD got me an Amex card with $200 on it for that one account pickup. I had over $1500.00 on my card within a short time and every next day air letter netted us a nickel. You can do the math. An employee maxed out at $200 per account back then. I have the paperwork to back it up. When they moved to Columbus I stopped by to see the shipping manager and he showed me the one semi load heading for sonic air and he said it was the third trailer that day. Not bragging really. I was glad to land that account. That's when we felt appreciated as drivers.....just prior to the strike.
And lastly, there was a police report on a sup for that kind of harassment within the last 4 yrs or so in our building. There's a lot more than that that's happened since and right now it's quiet..er. Sorry, I wasn't ignoring you.
Thanks for the food.
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Tos,
Going off topic again===Like when the Grievance register is cleared by EVERY local union --Dec or Jan---How is it cleared ?? Who gets the money ?? Who cuts the deal ??
Is the Union Guilty ?? The Company ? Or do you believe thousands of grievances are never heard --and both are happy ??? Is that also "figured in" ?
p.s.
I have not heard from the I.E. expert ==Pretzel Man in a very long time . He would tend to disagree with your description of work measurement ---and how every stop on your area has the same time allowance ---rather that an allowance that has taken all stops on that area into the equasion.
But of course --those people with Engineering degrees are just nerds and could never understand the complexities of work measurement. Both of you believe that you are experts on what the other one does --???? Wow that in itself is complex !!
Bottom line --with all the technology --You still do the same job as all of us through the decades: Pick-Up and Deliver Packages..
Sorry -again to be off thread topic !!
See you soon in Current events !!
Island, two points.
1) "EVERY local union --Dec or Jan---How is it cleared ?? Who gets the money ?? Who cuts the deal ??"
This is a real scenario. At the end of the year, deals "are" cut on grievances. The company labor and union officers sit down and review all cases to clear the books for the new year. Deals like .50 cents on the dollar for payable greivances are settled. Some are agreed to be tossed out. The company will present the cases its "dug in on" and will carry over for next year arbitration and such.
This happens in EVERY LOCAL, and there are no exceptions. Its the dirty little secret in Union negotiating. Literally, dozens of greivances are never heard, yet represented to the membership as if they were, and the explanation that the cases were "settled" for a reduced amount. This satisfies the company and the union gets to pretend its doing its job.
For those cases that are "dug in", they will eventually find an end in arbitration. In the world of negotiating, this is "the figured in part".
2) "But of course --those people with Engineering degrees are just nerds and could never understand the complexities of work measurement."
The degree and schooling is impressive on paper, but there is one thing that separates the driver from the engineer that gives the advantage to the driver, PRACTICAL WORKING EXPERIENCE. This is something IE people DONT have.
There are too many variables to the delivery process for the engineer to understand. The job of delivering and picking up packages isnt as easy to calculate as you think. Delivering of packages isnt the simple street to street process that it used to be.
Now there are "factored" interferences to the delivery process. Now, I can be in one area and forced to leave that area (undone) to make a scheduled residential delivery 5 miles away because of UPS MY CHOICE.
Businesses and schools have priority, so hoping around area to area making commit times isnt something the IE geek can calculate. The engineer cannot experience the practical side of delivery without never doing the job themselves in todays delivery environment.
That gives me the advantage.
I know the streets, the corners, the driveways, the businesses, the operations, the needs and commits of my area. This is something the driver will always have the advantage on.
The "experts" have only created more trouble and reduced "service" for the customers. Service failures, is something that we didnt experience years ago. Today, 4 to 5 off areas everyday per car, pickups missed because cars dont have the cube space available to fit anything more, fewer cars on the road and managers and supervisors without the knowledge of the job they are managing.
One of the biggest problems with UPS thinking is the very thought you expressed.
"You still do the same job as all of us through the decades: Pick-Up and Deliver Packages.."~island
Not true. Now, its managing "errors" and re-engineering the workday.
Its complicated today.
TOS
This is true bug. There are many supervisors who attempt to "walk on heels" or "kick" the back of heels to make drivers walk faster. Sure, there are compliants filed and the practice stopped in each center when it arises. No police have been called yet, but UPS still tries to use this practice to speed up drivers.
TOS.
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