SurePost - A Subcontracting Violation that has led to the loss of many UPS jobs.

[menotyou]

I shop at Amazon primarily for the low shipping. I am not a member of Prime as I don't shop enough to justify the $79 fee. My last three orders have either had free or very cheap (<$5) shipping.

I am an Amazon shopper, as well. But, when buying a winter coat for the grands or cap toe shoes(my last purchase, awaiting arrival any day now), I go back to Lands End/LL Bean every time.

 

[The Other Side]

You have to understand, Tom, Dick and Harry working on the dock that you talk to on a daily basis are not usually the decision makers at a company. (I'm not talking about the 1-10 person companies). The CEO\CFO\CPO are the ones who work on reducing their costs and Surepost is a way to reduce costs. Do customers come out and say all the time "I want Surepost".. No.. But do customers say "I want lower rates" Absolutely.. all the time. Surepost is our answer to offer lower rates to a customer, while still making a little bit of profit on these accounts.

The "reps" as you call them are paid on commission, when they switch an account from ground to basic, their commission goes down. So the "reps" don't want to switch customers over. However... it is better for them to switch an account from ground to Surepost, then it is to lose the account entirely to Smartpost.

If the customers were happy with the service and happy with the rates, a "rep" would be a fool to switch them since it takes money out of their pocket.






You have to make up your mind, you and others have laughed at how mgmt pays hundreds of dollars per month in our own benefits and have had a year of no pay raises and new mgmt has no defined benefit pension. Yet you also say we are bloated. Not sure how long you have been around but we have far less mgmt people then we did 20 years ago. Take for example the Finance Dept. We used to have over a dozen supervisors in finance in the district, along with 3 managers and a div mgr. We have 1/3 the districts now then we did before and finance has now 1 div mgr, 2 mgrs and 6 supvs to cover a district that used to be 3 districts. That's a huge drop in mgmt. In my old district, there used to be 9 pkg div mgrs, now the same geographic area has 3.5 div mgrs (the .5 is because that div mgr covers what was a div mgr job in the old district plus another area that was a division in the district we merged with). We went from 60 plus district mgrs to 20 districts in the US.

We have seen reduction of well over 50% of mgmt in areas like this. We have had areas like BD where we added mgmt since now we have competition and much stiffer competition then we have had in the past.

FDX pays their drivers far less then what UPS drivers earn (esp if you include the benefit costs).

I'm not saying you don't earn the money. However, I am saying FDX has shown a lot of people will do a similar job for a lot less. To say we need more reduction in mgmt isn't realistic overall. (Although in some areas such as what you don't see, I see no reason why we even need a region group anymore, those jobs s/b eliminated or moved to corporate.

A few points on your post. Lets start with the bolded Black section first. Its always easier for someone sitting behind a desk to say that drivers dont interact with the decision makers, but thats not the case. We know the diffference between the shipping department and the front office. In fact, many of us interact with the decision makers everyday and sometimes on weekends. We are alot closer to the decision makers than your reps or your management team. I am starting my 23rd year on the same route and believe me, I have forgotten more about the route and its businesses then UPS and its managers will ever know.

Drivers make a point to understand how businesses work. That includes knowing who not to waste our voices on. When we arrive and the decision maker informs us that the BD rep offered them cheaper pricing by switching to surepost, then we can tell you that customers are not asking for such a service.

Yes, everyone wants cheaper everything, but by your own admission in RED BOLD, the way to get that to the customer is to DIVERT our business to a cheaper service delivered by the postal service. thank you for that.

Why not just cut the overtime down, cut out useless management positions including division level, make routes practical, and instead of having 6 management persons in the center without decision making authority, why not start promoting hourly drivers with a full understanding of the business to make those in the trenches decisons that today cannot be made without creating a ginormous clusterphuque?

With these cuts, we could lower prices for customers who need relief and still manage the business and service the customer properly, something that doesnt happen today?

You mentioned that the BD Reps would be hurting themselves by offering surepost, but the reality is, UPS cant keep BD reps. The turnover is fugly.

There has to be a reason that reps dont stay too long at UPS. Yes there are some that do, but they make up the minority.

AS for your division level reductions, thats not what I am talking about. I am glad there have been reductions, some needed to go, others shouldnt have been hired or promoted in the first place. What I am talking about is the redundancy is useless supervisors who cannot seem to do their jobs on a daily basis. Preload mistakes are at an all time time.

All the technology in the world and yet, our misloads have tripled daily and service failures are going through the roof. 7 supervisors on the pens and we cant get out of the building before 930am and our loads look like they used a shovel to put them in.

This costs the company millions of dollars in useless overtime, mileage, service failures and customer loyalty. In reality, all you are offering the customer is a change from a crappy service to an even crapier service so UPS can save a few bucks.

The proof is in the pudding with surepost, the complaints keep coming in, and the claims are starting to add up. Eventually, claims alone will kill this program as recieving customers start to deny this service.

Peace

TOS

 

[moreluck]

amen to that! I am very value-conscious as well. I also switch between 2 different grocery stores depending on what items I need. People used to rag on me for being cheap and frugal. But now.... hahaha... jokes on them, as I did not have to foreclose on my house, I own my cars outright, and I have excellent credit.

Doing well is the best revenge!

 

[pretzel_man]

Spoken like the absent professor. Customers are NOT asking for this service, its OUR REPS who are pushing this service by transforming existing customers into surepost customers.

Large accounts, who have customarily shipped through UPS are given huge discounts for air services, and then with their ground, the REPS are suggesting the surepost to the customers.

I know, A few of my LARGE SHIPPERS were changed to surepost without even opening their mouth.

If UPS wants to offer cheaper services, I am all for it. Start by eliminating all the overweighted managers and useless operations managers and cut the rates.

We'd be the cheapest service in the business.

Create solid residential routes worth 8 hours a day with ZERO pickups. Service the customers. Diverting pkgs to the USPS where they are delayed, damaged, lost and left on mailboxes or near the street ISNT CUSTOMER SERVICE.

NO CUSTOMER IS ASKING FOR THAT.

The USPS carriers HATE the surepost and smartpost pkgs they have to deliver. Our drivers enjoy their workdays and enjoy the people they interact with everyday.

UPS has sold out customer service for a gutter delivery service in lieu of higher profits.

Peace

TOS

So, if what you say is true......

Why would UPS create a lower cost, low margin service???

How were customers changed to Surepost without opening their mouth???

From UPS website:

"Note: UPS SurePost is available only if you have a contract for this service."

This is a contract only service and put in to answer market demand. The ground options still exists. The Shipper chose to use Surepost.

Why?

 

[Coldworld]

So, if what you say is true......

Why would UPS create a lower cost, low margin service???

How were customers changed to Surepost without opening their mouth???

From UPS website:

"Note: UPS SurePost is available only if you have a contract for this service."

This is a contract only service and put in to answer market demand. The ground options still exists. The Shipper chose to use Surepost.

Why?

The shippers are using this service and still charging their customers the same rate as UPS ground and pocketing the difference

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I abandon purchases all the time because of shipping costs.

I needed a lunch box for work. I went to upsers and clicked on the link to check out UPS Merchandise. The lunch box was $10 and the shipping was $10. I went to Amazon and found a nicer lunch box for $9 with free shipping.

The only time I don't have an option is buying UPS socks but I still cringe when I have to pay nearly $10 for shipping.

 

[beentheredonethat]

The shippers are using this service and still charging their customers the same rate as UPS ground and pocketing the difference

In many instances you are right. However, put yourself in the shoes of the owner of this company (or the CFO). You have an option to reduce your cost and that savings goes directly to your bottom line. My point is that businesses do this since they see it as the pros (lower costs\higher profits) outweigh the cons (possible customer dissatisfaction\abandoning their orders).

However, TOS says his shippers never asked for or wanted Surepost. (Hmm. seems like there is good reason to want it). And as Pretzel stated, it's a contract service, so someone at company had to sign the contract.

 

[anonymous4]

Why do I see so many Surepost boxes while sorting that are 10lbs or over?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Why do I see so many Surepost boxes while sorting that are 10lbs or over?

...because like any other service UPS offers it doesn't take long before the rules are bent...2DA envelopes are only supposed to be used for shipments 8 ounces or less...read the fine print on the envelope...we all know that doesn't happen...

 

[Catatonic]

I needed a lunch box for work.
The only time I don't have an option is buying UPS socks but I still cringe when I have to pay nearly $10 for shipping.

SpongeBob SquarePants?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

SpongeBob SquarePants?

I found a company online that will imprint a picture and saying that you send on to the lunch box you choose.

 

[The Other Side]

Why do I see so many Surepost boxes while sorting that are 10lbs or over?

Surepost has no limitations on weight or size.. thats how they started it, and like every other agreement UPS makes, the original intent is being violated, abused and used to kill the package business.

Pretty simple stuff.

peace

TOS

 

[pretzel_man]

Why do I see so many Surepost boxes while sorting that are 10lbs or over?

I do NOT see a 10 lb limit on the rules for Surepost.....


According to UPS.com:


Four UPS SurePost services are available: SurePost Less than 1 lb, SurePost 1 lb or Greater, SurePost Bound Printed Matter, and SurePost Media.

The total dimension of the package cannot exceed 130 inches if you select SurePost Less than 1 lb or SurePost 1 lb or Greater or 108 inches if you select SurePost Bound Printed Matter or SurePost Media in the UPS Service box. To determine this dimension, measure the package and then add twice the width and twice the height.

 

[Justaname]

Sound bars, boxes as long as I am, and even a tv once. Sure post is a service that has been grossly abused at the cost of full time jobs!

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

TOS, you and other drivers continually state that by adding more drivers and more routes, while reducing each drivers work day will result in savings. Considering that one additional driver, including his bennies, including fuel and liability for tge truck, is probably more than 3 drivers with 3 hrs OT each, not sure how that helps reduce overhead.

I think the "cut out the useless mgmt positions" bit is a little over-play as well, as it has been shown UPS is sticking it hard to their corporation level employees, removing benefits and people on a level we do not experience amongst drivers. As a union driver it hurts to acknowledge that being the highest paid in our industry BY FAR has driven the company to make sacrifices in other areas, like service.

 

[Coldworld]

TOS, you and other drivers continually state that by adding more drivers and more routes, while reducing each drivers work day will result in savings. Considering that one additional driver, including his bennies, including fuel and liability for tge truck, is probably more than 3 drivers with 3 hrs OT each, not sure how that helps reduce overhead.

I think the "cut out the useless mgmt positions" bit is a little over-play as well, as it has been shown UPS is sticking it hard to their corporation level employees, removing benefits and people on a level we do not experience amongst drivers. As a union driver it hurts to acknowledge that being the highest paid in our industry BY FAR has driven the company to make sacrifices in other areas, like service.

lets be fair here, management positions are the highest paid in our industry also..I have no doubt about that. Management have enjoyed stock, a 401k with some match, and a pension...now I know the pension is being fazed out but look at all the years management was living high on the hog...while new hires made 8.00 an hour. I see the mercedes and lexus vehicles in the parking lot...those arent hourlies.

 

[anonymous4]

I do NOT see a 10 lb limit on the rules for Surepost.....


According to UPS.com:


Four UPS SurePost services are available: SurePost Less than 1 lb, SurePost 1 lb or Greater, SurePost Bound Printed Matter, and SurePost Media.

The total dimension of the package cannot exceed 130 inches if you select SurePost Less than 1 lb or SurePost 1 lb or Greater or 108 inches if you select SurePost Bound Printed Matter or SurePost Media in the UPS Service box. To determine this dimension, measure the package length and then add twice the width and twice the height.

Oh, I didn't realize. I thought I saw something about Surepost being smalls only. In that case, what is stopping every single package from magically turning into Surepost. Obviously this must be addressed. I was indifferent, but you convinced me otherwise. Another tactic to "save" the company that exploits the people who built it under the disguise of something necessary. What's new? You guys need a new bag of tricks.

 

[Catatonic]

Oh, I didn't realize. I thought I saw something about Surepost being smalls only. In that case, what is stopping every single package from magically turning into Surepost. Obviously this must be addressed. I was indifferent, but you convinced me otherwise. Another tactic to "save" the company that exploits the people who built it under the disguise of something necessary. What's new? You guys need a new bag of tricks.

You guys? ... meaning the customers.

 

[anonymous4]

Would you agree or disagree that UPS has and is actively trying to take work out of the overpaid teamsters hands.

 

[pretzel_man]

lets be fair here, management positions are the highest paid in our industry also..I have no doubt about that. Management have enjoyed stock, a 401k with some match, and a pension...now I know the pension is being fazed out but look at all the years management was living high on the hog...while new hires made 8.00 an hour. I see the mercedes and lexus vehicles in the parking lot...those arent hourlies.

I really wish you guys would make up your minds.....

Now we are overpaid and living high off the hog. Other times we are underpaid, overworked and getting screwed.

No wonder we are schizophrenic.