SurePost - A Subcontracting Violation that has led to the loss of many UPS jobs.

[pretzel_man]

Oh, I didn't realize. I thought I saw something about Surepost being smalls only. In that case, what is stopping every single package from magically turning into Surepost. Obviously this must be addressed. I was indifferent, but you convinced me otherwise. Another tactic to "save" the company that exploits the people who built it under the disguise of something necessary. What's new? You guys need a new bag of tricks.

There is nothing magic about it....

Its a contract service with poorer service and fewer "frills".

Nobody is converting these packages, but some customers are choosing this contract service.

If you are worried that many more customers will switch, you just made the argument for Surepost. That there is a demand for a cheaper service.

If that is the case, then what would keep those same customers from leaving UPS to go to FedEx for Smartpost?

 

[worldwide]

...because like any other service UPS offers it doesn't take long before the rules are bent...2DA envelopes are only supposed to be used for shipments 8 ounces or less...read the fine print on the envelope...we all know that doesn't happen...

There is no such thing as a "2DA envelope" in the current UPS supply inventory. Years ago, envelopes were segregated as Next Day Air and 2nd Day Air and came in red and blue colors, respectively. That is no longer the case - Express envelopes can be used for next day, 2 day or worldwide express services. Years ago, there was no weight limit on letters - what ever documents that could be fit in the envelopes received a flat rate based on zone; now there is an 8 oz limit on express envelopes to receive the "letter' rate. Customers can still use the express envelopes to ship documents that weight more than 8 oz, but they will be charged based on the actual weight.

From the UPS tariff: "Letter Rates for domestic shipments are available only for UPS Express Envelopes containing correspondence, urgent documents, or electronic media, with an actual weight of eight ounces or less. UPS Express® Envelopes containing items other than those listed or weighing more than eight ounces will be assessed the corresponding rate for the applicable weight. For international shipments, Express Envelopes may be used only for documents of no commercial value (which may include electronic media in some countries), with an actual weight of eight (8) ounces or less. UPS Express Envelopes containing other items, or weighing more than eight ounces will be assessed the corresponding Pak Rates."

You may be making reference to this statement in the tariff: "The shipper shall comply with the requirements of the Private Express Statutes (PES) when using UPS 2nd Day Air A.M.® and UPS 2nd Day Air® services."

The PES created a governmental monopoly on the carriage and delivery of letter mail, and ensured that this monopoly can be enforced. In 1979 the Postal Service authorized the delivery of extremely urgent letters outside the USPS; this has given rise to delivery services such as FedEx and UPS's express mail services. These letters must either cost at least the greater of $3 or twice what First Class (or Priority) mail service would cost, or they must be delivered within strict time limits or otherwise lose value.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

No, I am referring to what I read on the outside of the 2DA envelopes that I pick up daily from my drop boxes.

 

[slaveofbigbrown]

Well I heard today that fedex is dropping there surepost or what ever its called. Hopefully our union will step up and try to abolish ours! Fingers are crossed but hopes are not high.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Well I heard today that fedex is dropping there surepost or what ever its called. Hopefully our union will step up and try to abolish ours! Fingers are crossed but hopes are not high.

If FedEx does indeed drop SmartPost then there would be no reason for us to continue offering SurePost.

In another thread it was mentioned that FedEx is pulling their drop boxes.

 

[worldwide]

No, I am referring to what I read on the outside of the 2DA envelopes that I pick up daily from my drop boxes.

As I stated, there is no such thing as a "2DA envelope" in the current UPS supply inventory. Perhaps the drop boxes you pick up from has old supplies and they should be replaced with current inventory.

You stated that "2DA envelopes are only supposed to be used for shipments 8 ounces or less..." No such supply item as a 2DA envelope any longer--it can not be ordered. Current rules on express envelopes are clear--weight limit of 8 oz; above 8 oz gets charged the actual weight. Check out the language on a current express envelope once updated supplies are placed in the drop box.

 

[worldwide]

Well I heard today that fedex is dropping there surepost or what ever its called. Hopefully our union will step up and try to abolish ours! Fingers are crossed but hopes are not high.

Not likely...

Fedex SmartPost is one of the few areas at Fedex growing and contributing to the profits of the company. From the Fedex Q1 results announced on Sep 18:

"FedEx Ground average daily package volume grew 5% in the first quarter driven by increases in both business-to-business and FedEx Home Delivery services. Revenue per package increased 2% primarily due to increased rates. FedEx SmartPost average daily volume increased 18% primarily due to growth in e-commerce. FedEx SmartPost net revenue per package decreased 1% primarily due to higher postage rates."

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

As I stated, there is no such thing as a "2DA envelope" in the current UPS supply inventory. Perhaps the drop boxes you pick up from has old supplies and they should be replaced with current inventory.

You stated that "2DA envelopes are only supposed to be used for shipments 8 ounces or less..." No such supply item as a 2DA envelope any longer--it can not be ordered. Current rules on express envelopes are clear--weight limit of 8 oz; above 8 oz gets charged the actual weight. Check out the language on a current express envelope once updated supplies are placed in the drop box.

All of my 5 drop boxes have 2DA envelopes both in the customer and storage areas. We have quite a few in the supplies storage area in the center. It will be a while before we go through what we have on hand. I know that we can no longer order 2DA envelopes and are to stock our drop boxes with Express envelopes when our supplies are used up.

 

[gostillerz]

I can't work at USPS because of the whole "working for a competitor" thing, but it's okay for UPS to work with the competitor to deliver the packages that should be on my truck instead of theirs. That makes sense.

When it started, I delivered maybe 10 pieces to the post office. Now, it's more like 100 every day. During peak, we'd have the 28' van go to all of the post offices. How many routes did that take away?

 

[anonymous4]

According to everyone that posts here in management, it took away zero routes. Pretzel_man, I pose the same question to you. I am not asking what customers want. I am asking if UPS has or is looking for ways to remove overpaid teamsters from it's operation.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

According to everyone that posts here in management, it took away zero routes. Pretzel_man, I pose the same question to you. I am not asking what customers want. I am asking if UPS has or is looking for ways to remove overpaid teamsters from it's operation.

it cut 2-3 routes in our center,im sure it made the company{and public}money.but we have a very rural based center and i see the packages that would be on routes and we would have 2-3 more.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Oh, I didn't realize. I thought I saw something about Surepost being smalls only. In that case, what is stopping every single package from magically turning into Surepost. Obviously this must be addressed. I was indifferent, but you convinced me otherwise. Another tactic to "save" the company that exploits the people who built it under the disguise of something necessary. What's new? You guys need a new bag of tricks.

The rate charts for Surepost have significant savings for customers when they ship a pkg <=10 lbs. Once the rate goes over 10 lbs the price increases dramatically for the customer. In most cases it becomes cheaper for the customer to utilize UPS ground instead of UPS Surepost for heavier pkgs. Sometimes, the customers just ships it that service out of habit. My customers at least have been told, if you use Surepost above 10 lbs, we will service it, we will get it delivered (final mile still by USPS). However you will pay more. My customer may have an occasional pkg over the 10 lb limit, but more as an exception then a rule.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Would you agree or disagree that UPS has and is actively trying to take work out of the overpaid teamsters hands.

Absolutely disagree. If that was our goal, we would never have started Basic and then morph it to Surepost. If we really wanted to take work out of Teamster hands we would have let FDX offer Smartpost without any comparable service from UPS. Customers would have flocked to them and we would have lost more volume. Keep in mind, ever pkg is moved by a UPS Teamster Feeder driver (often more then one leg), every pkg is sorted by a UPS teamster employee, (often multiple sorts). Every pkg is sorted and loaded by a UPS Teamster Preloader. Every pkg is delivered (to the USPS) by a UPS teamster Service Provider. FDX on the other hand has 0 Teamsters, and virtually 0 unionized employees.

 

[beentheredonethat]

lets be fair here, management positions are the highest paid in our industry also..I have no doubt about that. Management have enjoyed stock, a 401k with some match, and a pension...now I know the pension is being fazed out but look at all the years management was living high on the hog...while new hires made 8.00 an hour. I see the mercedes and lexus vehicles in the parking lot...those arent hourlies.

coldworld. You do not know what you are talking about.

I will grant you, I'm only a 24 year UPSer, 21 years in UPS FT Mgmt. When I started UPS mgmt was paid very well compared to other companies. The folks older then me espescially did very well on stocks and stock options (div mgr level or higher). However, for the last 5 years the stock has been stagnant (it was 76 bucks in Oct 2007 and it's 73 dollars now). Most of the wealth of mgmt was on the growth of stock. That hasn't been happening for a long time now.

When I look at my salary now compared to what friends of mine make. I am at or below now what the majority of them make. My main reason for staying is being close to 6 weeks vacation and a pension at 55 that I will be eligible for.

Other posters have mentioned that we can't keep Business Development folks around. That's because they are underpaid compared to the industry. Even with all the whining about Scott Davis pay. (I myself am not crazy about his pay increases during these times). However, he still is underpaid compared to other CEO level folks of a Fortune 500 company.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Well I heard today that fedex is dropping there surepost or what ever its called. Hopefully our union will step up and try to abolish ours! Fingers are crossed but hopes are not high.

I heard 20 years ago the teamsters were organizing FDX.
I heard about 20 years ago that RPS (later known as FDX Ground) wasn't a threat.
I heard 15 years ago the teamsters were going to organize FDX.

 

[beentheredonethat]

...because like any other service UPS offers it doesn't take long before the rules are bent...2DA envelopes are only supposed to be used for shipments 8 ounces or less...read the fine print on the envelope...we all know that doesn't happen...

Upstate, Originally the 2DA\NDA envelopes were unlimited weight (but it was limited to documents). FDX years ago had the 8 oz limit on documents. UPS promoted this benefit of UPS svc over FDX in being able to put unlimited weight in the envelopes. ONly recently (last 2 or 3 years) did we impose a weight limit on documents. Many customers aren't aware of that change. Many may be aware but try to get away with it.

 

[Coldworld]

coldworld. You do not know what you are talking about.

I will grant you, I'm only a 24 year UPSer, 21 years in UPS FT Mgmt. When I started UPS mgmt was paid very well compared to other companies. The folks older then me espescially did very well on stocks and stock options (div mgr level or higher). However, for the last 5 years the stock has been stagnant (it was 76 bucks in Oct 2007 and it's 73 dollars now). Most of the wealth of mgmt was on the growth of stock. That hasn't been happening for a long time now.

When I look at my salary now compared to what friends of mine make. I am at or below now what the majority of them make. My main reason for staying is being close to 6 weeks vacation and a pension at 55 that I will be eligible for.

Other posters have mentioned that we can't keep Business Development folks around. That's because they are underpaid compared to the industry. Even with all the whining about Scott Davis pay. (I myself am not crazy about his pay increases during these times). However, he still is underpaid compared to other CEO level folks of a Fortune 500 company.

I should have made myself more clear....you make more than the person doing the same job at fedex, or any other regional shipping company out there...I didnt mean the business world in general...sorry if you misunderstood me.

 

[beentheredonethat]

I should have made myself more clear....you make more than the person doing the same job at fedex, or any other regional shipping company out there...I didnt mean the business world in general...sorry if you misunderstood me.

OK.. But there's a key difference still. A person who goes to school as an Engineer for example. He\she can work in many different industries for many different companies. When you graduate with an engineering degree you are not shoehorned into a degree in engineering only for transportation. What is true that in our industry, the UPS Service Provider is the highest paid compared to all other companies. (The competitors primarily being FDX Air, FDX Grd, USPS, Couriers, DHL, Messenger svcs etc). I will grant you, we expect a lot more from our drivers then other companies demand. Our drivers work hard and should be compensated well. However, when it becomes noncompetitive then it becomes unsustainable in the long term. We are in a similar boat the UAW\Big three were in the 70's. Remember what they say, people who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Actually, I've read in more than acouple places that FedEx salaried employees, especially in coporate and sales, make more than their UPS counterparts. Google FedEx vs UPS career and you'll get the rundown. Even the ground drivers' base was said to be more than a UPS driver, but it is obvious they don't take into account the expenses that "driver" has to pay out, or that the UPS driver will get oodles of OT unless he fights it with grievances (or resides in a bubble of goodness, according to some of you). I doubt the corporate and sales positions of UPS and FedEx have such caveats, however.

Again, UPS is taking it from where ever they can, and they "can't" from drivers, so they are taking it from salaried, non-union employees. For me, for us we get more money, but they get our family time.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

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