Teamsters for a Democratic Union

[outlaw]

NEVER, perfect example the current condition of local 804. KR aka AGITATOR is on the board of TDU and was elected BA. He handed out tdu bs for years and was crying like a baby when the old e-board raised co-pays 5 bucks. Where is tdu now when the new LOCAL 804 TDU board just raised copays 10 bucks AND more than doubled retiree health care cost from 225.00 to 550.00 per month with a 10% raise every year. WHAT HAPPENED TO TAKING ON UPS and making them pay.
At the last meeting a member got up and said "the local is giving education classes, Im wondering if BA KR aka the AGITATOR IS ATTENDING. KR aka AGITATOR allowed the company to walk a member out of the building (discharged) The AGITATOR had no clue what innocent till proven guilty meant. Thank god the shop steward knew what he was doing. At local 804 absenteeism is not a cardinal sin. This is only the tip of the iceburg.

 

[local804]

Outlaw, was this the case where the union employee was warned, given a warning letter, suspended for a day then three then 5?

 

[Just Numbers]

Fedex ground averages about 3.5 million packages a day now, 13 years after the strike with many of these packages being customers that left later and well after the strike. A lot of them left because of the sevice, at our prices we need to supply a better level of service, this is what this company was founded on. To blame the loss packages on a strike years ago is only an attempt to deflect the real issue at hand.

Ups is a more profitable company today than it was before 1997 with a lot of that coming off the back of the hard working men and women of this company, not from the board room! While the board room has added some value, none of it has happened under our current CEO.



How many more teamster jobs would UPS have created with an additional 3.5 million pks daily? How many routes would be added instead of being cut? You mentioned "at our prices" without questioning why they are high! "UPS is a more profitable company today than it was before 1997". Of course it is...we've had a rate hike every year! Any profit last year was due to cost cutting, not growing the business on the domestic side.

 

[705red]

Fedex ground averages about 3.5 million packages a day now, 13 years after the strike with many of these packages being customers that left later and well after the strike. A lot of them left because of the sevice, at our prices we need to supply a better level of service, this is what this company was founded on. To blame the loss packages on a strike years ago is only an attempt to deflect the real issue at hand.

Ups is a more profitable company today than it was before 1997 with a lot of that coming off the back of the hard working men and women of this company, not from the board room! While the board room has added some value, none of it has happened under our current CEO.



How many more teamster jobs would UPS have created with an additional 3.5 million pks daily? How many routes would be added instead of being cut? You mentioned "at our prices" without questioning why they are high! "UPS is a more profitable company today than it was before 1997". Of course it is...we've had a rate hike every year! Any profit last year was due to cost cutting, not growing the business on the domestic side.

For a retired guy, you clain to think you know it all. Cost cutting? How many drivers worked more overtime? How many drivers got injured because of the excessive overtime? I made more money last year than any other year and ues I have been off since Dec with a bad back, coincidence? Who knows

 

[oldpaddy]

How many more teamster jobs would UPS have created with an additional 3.5 million pks daily? How many routes would be added instead of being cut?...

What difference does it make how many jobs would've been created when UPS is trying to fire all of us (at least in NE)?
At this point I'm more interested in UPS honoring our contract with them. The firings, harrasment and excessive overtime is my biggest concern right now. The union (and unfortunetly our "brothers") are allowing UPS to treat us like second class citizens. We may be cogs in a machine but we're people too.
I'm starting to wonder if it's time to shake up our locals.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

What difference does it make how many jobs would've been created when UPS is trying to fire all of us (at least in NE)?
At this point I'm more interested in UPS honoring our contract with them. The firings, harrasment and excessive overtime is my biggest concern right now. The union (and unfortunetly our "brothers") are allowing UPS to treat us like second class citizens. We may be cogs in a machine but we're people too.
I'm starting to wonder if it's time to shake up our locals.

Local 25 here and I agree, it is time to shake things up, however top-down is the way to go at this point, IMO

 

[JonFrum]

Back when UPS had a huge portion of the nation's small package business, that was an unnatural, unsustainable situation. The government doesn't like concentrations of market power, and neither does the consumer. UPS' dominance was destined to have been ended by Law or by market forces. Over time the natural order of things is for the dominant player in an industry to loose their dominant position. When you're on top, there's no place to go but down. This is true, strike or no strike. UPS didn't "own" those packages or those customers despite what management says.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

To add to what Jon said, competition can be a good thing. It keeps you from becoming complacent.

 

[tieguy]

. This is true, strike or no strike. UPS didn't "own" those packages or those customers despite what management says.

To add to what Jon said, competition can be a good thing. It keeps you from becoming complacent.

Jons point and yours actually address a completely different issue.
my point had nothing to do with competition or owning packages. But the impact of the strike on teamster jobs.

In 97 85 percent of shippers were single carrier shippers. they made the choice to ship ground exclusively with ups. The strike changed that loyalty to ups. The strike gave fdx the opportunity to move into ground.

Fdx would have moved into ground eventually. In the meantime UPS retains single carrier loyalty and grows much more before fdx makes their move.

therefore the strike cost ups millions of future packages and the teamsters as much as a hunderd thousand real full time jobs.
The 22.3 jobs won are a drop in the bucket compared to the jobs lost.

 

[JonFrum]

There's always a percentage of our shippers who are dissatisfied and are looking to jump to another carrier. There's no better time for them to sample our competor's service (from our perspective) than during the market chaos of the '97 Strike. Fedex couldn't possibly handle the sudden influx of packages and was overwhelmed. Their systems malfunctioned. Shippers were furious. And some would-be shippers were told, "don't even bother giving us (Fedex) your packages. We can't handle what we've already got."

Some of our disgruntled shippers return to us even in normal times after they sample the competition. I assume even a higher percentage return in chaotic times.

 

[Just Numbers]

For a retired guy, you clain to think you know it all. Cost cutting? How many drivers worked more overtime? How many drivers got injured because of the excessive overtime? I made more money last year than any other year and ues I have been off since Dec with a bad back, coincidence? Who knows

I make a comment and instead of answering logically you try to belittle me and go off on tangents. Well, let's have a go at your statement. I have never made a claim to "know it all". Maybe you think that but I don't and, unless you are a universal genius you don't "know it all" either. Next, "how many drivers worked more overtime?" I don't know do you? "How many drivers got injured because of excessive overtime? I don't know, do you? . If you read my comment instead of going off on a rant I said most of the profits last year were a result of cost cutting and not growing the business domestically. U.S. daily domestic volume increased less than 1% in the 1st qtr this year over last year, the first year over year growth in more tha two years. I'm not going off on a tangent...this info is in the story "no surprises" located on the front page of the brown cafe'

 

[tieguy]

There's always a percentage of our shippers who are dissatisfied and are looking to jump to another carrier. There's no better time for them to sample our competor's service (from our perspective) than during the market chaos of the '97 Strike. Fedex couldn't possibly handle the sudden influx of packages and was overwhelmed. Their systems malfunctioned. Shippers were furious. And some would-be shippers were told, "don't even bother giving us (Fedex) your packages. We can't handle what we've already got."

Some of our disgruntled shippers return to us even in normal times after they sample the competition. I assume even a higher percentage return in chaotic times.

Again your point about what fdx could or could not do has nothing to do with the point that shippers stopped being loyal to one single carrier as a result of that strike in 97.

your point is nice to consider but again has nothing to do with the fact that the 97 strike hastened fdx's move into ground and cost ups many packages and the teamsters many jobs.

 

[browned out]

Again your point about what fdx could or could not do has nothing to do with the point that shippers stopped being loyal to one single carrier as a result of that strike in 97.

your point is nice to consider but again has nothing to do with the fact that the 97 strike hastened fdx's move into ground and cost ups many packages and the teamsters many jobs.

In this area of the country; fedex is renting small vans f150s etc from enterprise. Their drivers are averaging 37 hours per week. We have all drivers working which is unusual this early in the vacation season. I still don't think that they are gaining market share in the most profitable segment. We were always told one air package was equal to ten ground and that figure was more like twenty to one for international packages to ground which is where we are hitting fedex the hardest.

 

[JonFrum]

Again your point about what fdx could or could not do has nothing to do with the point that shippers stopped being loyal to one single carrier as a result of that strike in 97.

your point is nice to consider but again has nothing to do with the fact that the 97 strike hastened fdx's move into ground and cost ups many packages and the teamsters many jobs.

The idea that shippers used only one carrier is not the kind of thing anyone can or should count on unless the shippers signed a long-term contract to that effect. Lots of customers of lots of businesses decrease their patronage or switch their patronage alltogether for a wide variety of reasons every day. Customers are under no hard obligation to be loyal.

If Fedex did specifically alter their strategy as you say, and for the reason you say, surely they must have announced it numerous times. I'm not saying they didn't switch their strategy, (it was kind of inevitable) just that I'd like to see some quotes from them saying they did, and that they did it because of the '97 Strike. I'd also like some quotes on how significant a strategy change was actually involved. Or did they just move their plans up a bit.

 

[tieguy]

The idea that shippers used only one carrier is not the kind of thing anyone can or should count on unless the shippers signed a long-term contract to that effect. Lots of customers of lots of businesses decrease their patronage or switch their patronage alltogether for a wide variety of reasons every day. Customers are under no hard obligation to be loyal.

Jon I'm not sure you're paying attention. I didnt say you should count on the shipper staying one carrier. Its clear though that shippers had one carrier loyalty before the strike and quickly lost that loyalty after the strike. My point....again....is that the switch from one carrier to multi carrier would have eventually happened but was accelerated as a result of the strike. In the process ups lost out on many packages that would have been theirss that were lost as a result of this accelerated switch.
My point again...is that fdx jumped into the ground business much sooner as a result of the strike. This potentially cost ups millions of packages and the teamsters many, many jobs.

If Fedex did specifically alter their strategy as you say, and for the reason you say, surely they must have announced it numerous times. I'm not saying they didn't switch their strategy, (it was kind of inevitable) just that I'd like to see some quotes from them saying they did, and that they did it because of the '97 Strike. I'd also like some quotes on how significant a strategy change was actually involved. Or did they just move their plans up a bit.

moved their plans up quite a bit as history shows. Fdx was looking for opportunity. with 85 percent of all shippers loyal to one carrier the opportunity was not there until the strike.

 

[tieguy]

In this area of the country; fedex is renting small vans f150s etc from enterprise. Their drivers are averaging 37 hours per week. We have all drivers working which is unusual this early in the vacation season. I still don't think that they are gaining market share in the most profitable segment. We were always told one air package was equal to ten ground and that figure was more like twenty to one for international packages to ground which is where we are hitting fedex the hardest.

We often try to fine reassurance that fdx is really not the threat that we think they are. So we tell ourselves that fdx is delivering out of small cars or empty cars or that their buildings are underutilized. We tell ourselves that fdx could not handle our volume in 97 and therefore assume that they would have the same exact results on a next strike even though fdx has increased their capacity tremendously since then.

 

[deleted9]

I make a comment and instead of answering logically you try to belittle me and go off on tangents. Well, let's have a go at your statement. I have never made a claim to "know it all". Maybe you think that but I don't and, unless you are a universal genius you don't "know it all" either. Next, "how many drivers worked more overtime?" I don't know do you? "How many drivers got injured because of excessive overtime? I don't know, do you? . If you read my comment instead of going off on a rant I said most of the profits last year were a result of cost cutting and not growing the business domestically. U.S. daily domestic volume increased less than 1% in the 1st qtr this year over last year, the first year over year growth in more tha two years. I'm not going off on a tangent...this info is in the story "no surprises" located on the front page of the brown cafe'

Very good post, i am also retired and one thing i do know is a company " Cannot Shrink To Greatness". Profit is up due to international business not domestic, due to cost cutting and technology, people are held more accountable to their actions or lack of than ever before. Yes more stops per car, Yes less routes, Yes less miles driven per driver day, Yes higher stops per on road hour, Yes higher NDPPH, again accountability like never before.

 

[JonFrum]

Tie, how many packages and Teamster jobs did we actually loose, according to you?

Do you think UPS negotiators learned their lesson. Or will they give us another unacceptable "last, best, and final" offer with deal-killer demands in 2013?

Can we count on you to urge them to be reasonable for once and avoid another strike?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Jon, unfortunately I think 2013 will be far more contentious (sp?) than 1997 with health care as the number one topic.

 

[705red]

Very good post, i am also retired and one thing i do know is a company " Cannot Shrink To Greatness". Profit is up due to international business not domestic, due to cost cutting and technology, people are held more accountable to their actions or lack of than ever before. Yes more stops per car, Yes less routes, Yes less miles driven per driver day, Yes higher stops per on road hour, Yes higher NDPPH, again accountability like never before.

There is NO accountability at UPS and there has not been for some time now. Management gets caught fudging time cards to lower costs and they get moved to another building to do it again. Drivers are putting on more miles daily because of the splits from the busted ut routes are no where near them. Drivers get paid more triple time because of over 9.5s from being over dispatched. Why do you continue to post on a subject that you dont fully understand? This isnt the old UPS you might have become custom to.