Backing. Your car only figures miles going forward. Telematics figures miles while backing too.
Telematics
- Thread starter Over12upsblows
- Start date
We have had it about a year, and no one has ever shown me a telematics report, unless thats what was thrust under my nose, upside down when being questioned.
I actually have no problem with it. Excessive idle, start and stops, yup since keyless I have a bunch. its the keyless it isnt me, or if the keyless is perfect I havent adapted yet. Door comes open when it shouldnt and wont open when it should. Sometimes I have nowhere to pull over to shut it, and I surely cant shut it while in seat or Ill get an end range motion injury............My door wont open when I need it to un less I start my truck, shut it off and then open door.
Ive been questioned about between stops multiple times, which is fair, lets just sit down and look at it, and I will tell you why instead of stuffing paper in my face when I am leaving the building with too many air, and then they want to talk.
I think from now on I will shut down the truck, get out and go in the office where we can look at these discrepancies and see what is going on. All Im saying is if it is really a problem, it needs to be discussed like adults. Do not accuse me of stealing time,or whatever they are trying to accuse me of, and send me out on the road spitting nails. It is not safe.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Our center is a small one--we put 24-28 cars on the road each day. They post two Telematics reports--the first lists each driver in alphabetical order and shows any discrepancies while the second is for the region and shows how each center is ranked within the region. Drivers who do have Telematics discrepancies are then given an individual report and, depending on the discrepancy, may be invited in for a chat with the center manager. They have been cool about it thus far but I have a feeling that may be coming to an end by June. Our on-car is retiring. He drove for 15 years and has been an on-car for 18. When he leaves and his replacement comes in I have a feeling the hammer may come down. We have a number of drivers who are not taking Telematics seriously and, to be fair, our center manager has been very patient but I have a feeling that when the new on-car takes over things are going to be different.
Big Babooba
Well-Known Member
I usually have less than 10 backing events per day for maybe 250 feet total. That still is a wee bit short of 2 miles!
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
We have been on Telematics for just over 3 years now, and there are just over 200 drivers in our building.
In that time, we have had ONE termination based upon Telematics data. It involved a driver who was scanning NDA as delivered prior to 10:30 when he was actually several blocks away from the delivery point. He was questioned about the discrepancy, and his story kept changing. He would still be employed if he had simply kept his mouth shut or at least stuck to one story, but the bottom line was that the driver was both dishonest and stupid and he got fired for it.
Three years...200 drivers...ONE termination due to Telematics.
Has there been harassment? Yes. Have people been called into the office and questioned about the time taken at particular stops? Yes. Has management used Telematics to badger and nitpick over petty B.S? Yes....but the bottom line is that no innocent drivers have been fired due to Telematics which in the final analysis is really all that matters.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Provable dishonesty is not subject to progressive discipline.
old levi's
blank space
Tattlematics report posted on Friday showed one of our drivers had an average backing speed of 72 mph.
WALOC
WALOC
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results. There a simple solution for managements need for information; let drivers code off all "time events" not part of that days assigned delivery and pick up trace.
For instance something as giving a dog a biscuit. Sound innocent enough, right. But no where in your assigned duties, methods, or procedures does it account for any time to give a dog a biscuit nor have you been given any written authorization to do so. Management could easily say you intentionally deviated from your assigned duties that cost the company money (stealing time.) If that sounds overly nit picky then imagine or think back across your own day at how many times you engaged in innocent conversations or activities with people most instigated by those same people.
I could nit pick and nit pick hundreds of circumstances and situation that a driver encounters that are not assigned, measured, and recorded by Telemetrics that for all intensive purposes can be maligned by management as stealing time. Allowing drivers to "code off with text memo" any particular event that they felt or believed they could or should engage in puts the ball back in the companies court to either reject any future like kind activity or authorize it. The company wants to use Telemeterics for accountability and efficiency then why shouldn't the driver be allowed to fully account for all that his/her days work may entail.
Are we just programmed machines executing instructions in a sequence serving other machines, or, are we people, humans, serving other humans in a human environment. The way Telemetrics see's the world and how management can define the world, we are machines, serving machines, every second of every minute, of every day.
PS: During Christmas and many other holiday's I deliver to a senior housing complex. Many of these sweet old lady's and worn down men get flowers in box's and other gifts. Now those flower have plastic ties that you have to cut with scissors. I have to, by request of the customer, open the box, cut the ties, and remove the flowers. They have arthritis you see and can't do it.
Have I been given authorization by UPS? Have I been assigned a time unit for this? No. I just do it because I have empathy for these folks and they asked me. Am I stealing time? Depends right? Am I a scratch driver? Do I file grievances? Is my management team ball breakers looking for any kind of leverage to get me to work through unpaid lunch period? You tell me. Am I stealing time?
For instance something as giving a dog a biscuit. Sound innocent enough, right. But no where in your assigned duties, methods, or procedures does it account for any time to give a dog a biscuit nor have you been given any written authorization to do so. Management could easily say you intentionally deviated from your assigned duties that cost the company money (stealing time.) If that sounds overly nit picky then imagine or think back across your own day at how many times you engaged in innocent conversations or activities with people most instigated by those same people.
I could nit pick and nit pick hundreds of circumstances and situation that a driver encounters that are not assigned, measured, and recorded by Telemetrics that for all intensive purposes can be maligned by management as stealing time. Allowing drivers to "code off with text memo" any particular event that they felt or believed they could or should engage in puts the ball back in the companies court to either reject any future like kind activity or authorize it. The company wants to use Telemeterics for accountability and efficiency then why shouldn't the driver be allowed to fully account for all that his/her days work may entail.
Are we just programmed machines executing instructions in a sequence serving other machines, or, are we people, humans, serving other humans in a human environment. The way Telemetrics see's the world and how management can define the world, we are machines, serving machines, every second of every minute, of every day.
PS: During Christmas and many other holiday's I deliver to a senior housing complex. Many of these sweet old lady's and worn down men get flowers in box's and other gifts. Now those flower have plastic ties that you have to cut with scissors. I have to, by request of the customer, open the box, cut the ties, and remove the flowers. They have arthritis you see and can't do it.
Have I been given authorization by UPS? Have I been assigned a time unit for this? No. I just do it because I have empathy for these folks and they asked me. Am I stealing time? Depends right? Am I a scratch driver? Do I file grievances? Is my management team ball breakers looking for any kind of leverage to get me to work through unpaid lunch period? You tell me. Am I stealing time?
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UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You open the box of flowers, cut the ties and remove the flowers? Do you then fill the vase with water and arrange them just so? Perhaps wash the dishes and fold the clothes while you are there?
I also deliver to a senior high rise and they get the same knock, drop and go as everyone else does.
No, you're not stealing time, but you definitely have too much customer contact.
I also deliver to a senior high rise and they get the same knock, drop and go as everyone else does.
No, you're not stealing time, but you definitely have too much customer contact.
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
You really not addressing the topic of the post just mocking it, but that's cool, its all in good fun. You too will be assimilated.
[video=youtube;WZEJ4OJTgg8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEJ4OJTgg8[/video]
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
An even simpler solution is to adopt the mentality that managements "need" for information is their problem, not ours.
Read the contract. Dishonesty in terms of Telematics is defined as "any act of omission where the driver INTENDS to defraud the company."
In other words...the burden of proof is on the company to show either a grievance panel or, ultimately, an arbitrator, that the driver INTENDED to defraud the company rather than simply failing to follow a method or committing an innocent data-entry error.
Your solution...which is to have us continually "code out" any sort of delays on an ongoing basis throughout the day, is no solution at all. The company could simply claim that the manner in which the driver coded out a particular span of time was dishonest, and we would be right back to square one.
True protection for honest and innocent drivers does not involve us actively participating in the Telematics game by finding new ways to code out time. It involves contract language that places the burden of proof upon the company to show what our INTENT was, which can be a pretty difficult thing to do in the case of an honest data-entry error.
Do the job; give a fair days work for a fair days pay; follow all methods to the best of your ability; be 100% honest at all times whenever questioned about anything; and you will have nothing to fear from Telematics.
BRAVO!!! You hit it on the head. They DO think we are machines. As though stuff doesnt happen. In their "scientific" models you are to have a perfect day. In reality, life gets in the way. We could name all the variables and distractions here but in short we are just imperfect human beings. We do make mistakes, we do forget to do things occassionally, or are distracted by "life": an argument with our spouse, a sick child, unpaid bills, saying hello to someone as you drive by, etc. What they expect for $30/hour is amazing. Granted it is a simple job compared to brain surgery or nuclear physics but management prefers to complicate it by micromanaging every little aspect of our day to the point where some might be second guessing every decision they make. UPS went from being the "tightest ship in the shipping business" to being the "Unattainable Perfection Standards" Co!! They are never happy. And if you are one of those "broken" or "not as efficent" little machines, you will be targetted. If they cannot "fix" you, you will be labelled as "incorrigible" and they will look for anything or manufacture somehting to find a way to discharge you!!
As someone said earlier, if the union cant fix this problem, then maybe it is time we consider a class action!!
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
It is not the unions responsibility to fix managements problems.
Management is perfectly entitled to be stupid and mean and irrational. Management is perfectly entitled to think of us as robots if they wish. And management is perfectly entitled to use Telematics to place ridiculous and impossible expectations upon us. What management is not entitled to do...is to terminate our employement for failing to meet those impossible expectations.
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
On Telemetrics "officially" one week. They have been collecting data since the new wired up cars have been coming into the buildings now over three years. How many driver? 120+ How many terminations 2 that we know of and possibly a few more who causality is suspicious and details withheld.
I agree with your post that its been no secret UPS wants your lunch and breaks and yes for as long as anyone can remember. Yet, you fail to see or acknowledge the potential weapon Telemetrics is. Telemetrics provides, what the UPS manager who conducted the presentation defined as, "fact based data." Now fact based data will require fact based answer, no?
Unlike the old days when you could lean on biases, interpretations, human to human idiosyncrasy, or semantic, we now have a system that can collected data points and generate reams of reports. Further more as to the "nothing has changed" point your making, the contract and your adherence to methods/rules never protected anyone that management want to screw. But, arguing against what a individual writes about you and what a machine says is interpreted quite diffidently by an arbitrator. An arbitrator may give a worker more latitude if what was written was by a human but how do argue against a machine. You are either on or off to a machine. Pass or fail. Injecting human nuances or how a person interpreted a particular task or choice of instruction to follow in a particular situation is a heavy task to prove against recording after recording of "fact based data." Understand the difference?
If you think that "just doing your job" and being "honest" is some how a shield against the potential abuse of this data then your living in a fools paradise. Unless clear lines are draw as to how this data can be used and until drivers are given the right to code off honest delays or activities that are not measured or assigned time units to its a Pandora's box of abuse of power.
UPS is well known as a company that disciplines workers by applying new policies, practices and procedures, retroactively.
Driver: "I didn't know I couldn't do that"
UPS: "How could you we just made it up" "Any way, your fired"
Every seen that in you 24 years...hum? A Fools paradise, indeed!
I agree with your post that its been no secret UPS wants your lunch and breaks and yes for as long as anyone can remember. Yet, you fail to see or acknowledge the potential weapon Telemetrics is. Telemetrics provides, what the UPS manager who conducted the presentation defined as, "fact based data." Now fact based data will require fact based answer, no?
Unlike the old days when you could lean on biases, interpretations, human to human idiosyncrasy, or semantic, we now have a system that can collected data points and generate reams of reports. Further more as to the "nothing has changed" point your making, the contract and your adherence to methods/rules never protected anyone that management want to screw. But, arguing against what a individual writes about you and what a machine says is interpreted quite diffidently by an arbitrator. An arbitrator may give a worker more latitude if what was written was by a human but how do argue against a machine. You are either on or off to a machine. Pass or fail. Injecting human nuances or how a person interpreted a particular task or choice of instruction to follow in a particular situation is a heavy task to prove against recording after recording of "fact based data." Understand the difference?
If you think that "just doing your job" and being "honest" is some how a shield against the potential abuse of this data then your living in a fools paradise. Unless clear lines are draw as to how this data can be used and until drivers are given the right to code off honest delays or activities that are not measured or assigned time units to its a Pandora's box of abuse of power.
UPS is well known as a company that disciplines workers by applying new policies, practices and procedures, retroactively.
Driver: "I didn't know I couldn't do that"
UPS: "How could you we just made it up" "Any way, your fired"
Every seen that in you 24 years...hum? A Fools paradise, indeed!
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BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
Your response shows that you don't know to much about the disciplinary process and how UPS abuse's it. You said the burden of proof is on the company? Technically yes. But, you've been fired (cardinal sin). Your outside the gate now with no income. Your waiting for your panel/arbitration case which can be delayed for weeks and months. If you want your job back and your income restored they will offer you a "deal." Except a suspension (sames as pleading guilty) or take your chances at the joint panel and have the union plead guilty for you by cutting there "deal." Either way you'll have a permanent record of dishonesty attached to your file whether you were ever dishonest or not. You see that's what happen in the real world of union management relations.
Get it?
Intent, Innocent until proven guilty, and just cause are just words on a piece of paper not checks you can cash and pay bills with.
Having coded off time and text memo's makes a record of your actions and intent at that moment in time. You'll have fact based data to meet there fact based data. Let the company foist all the nefarious intent they want because they will anyway your recordings or not. At least you'll be on the record as making your actions accountable.
Do you understand?
Get it?
Intent, Innocent until proven guilty, and just cause are just words on a piece of paper not checks you can cash and pay bills with.
Having coded off time and text memo's makes a record of your actions and intent at that moment in time. You'll have fact based data to meet there fact based data. Let the company foist all the nefarious intent they want because they will anyway your recordings or not. At least you'll be on the record as making your actions accountable.
Do you understand?
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soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
You have been on Telematics for 1 week.
I have been on Telematics for 3 years.
In that 3 years, I have yet to see a case where an innocent driver was "fired" for dishonesty and had to wait for a panel decision with no income. The "potential" abuses you describe have not occured.
I dont know where you are, but here in the Western region we are protected from unjust termination by the superior language in our supplement. The contract defines proveable dishonesty as a cardinal offense and Telematics data by itself is not considered proof.
Drivers who are being harassed or questioned about their SPORH or any delays in their workday already have the ability to keep a daily log that our local has printed out and provided to the membership that allows the member to document their workday and take note of issues such as traffic, poor load, missing pkgs etc. It is not necessary for us to find creative ways to "code out" delays in our DIADS when we can accomplish the same thing with a daily log that fits in our shirt pocket and, unlike a DIAD, is not the property of the company and subject to deletion or alteration at the company's whim. Why on earth would you want to risk your career by "coding out" time on a device that the company has total control of?
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
I am not in the Western Region. We have no such rights to keep day logs or anything at this time. We have never seen or heard of such a thing. But it was brought up in the UPS presentation about taking notes. UPS said nothing about it. UPS said don't worry. When they said that we all looked at each other and without saying a word we thought together, start worrying!
I agree that anything you input in the DIAD is company property and I also agree the company would never give out anything that is exculpatory. Can you give me or make available to all of us these logs books or printouts your local has provide you so we can begin the process of demanding our opportunity to document non-measured activity. Take a pic or scan a page of the log and make it an attachment or post it to a web site. You can make quick web sites on Google Sites. I very eager to have this template as I expect so many other in my local and region. I will file a grievance in the morning for the right to document non-measure incidents.
Thanks.
You see were getting things done here. I'm all goose bumps...
I agree that anything you input in the DIAD is company property and I also agree the company would never give out anything that is exculpatory. Can you give me or make available to all of us these logs books or printouts your local has provide you so we can begin the process of demanding our opportunity to document non-measured activity. Take a pic or scan a page of the log and make it an attachment or post it to a web site. You can make quick web sites on Google Sites. I very eager to have this template as I expect so many other in my local and region. I will file a grievance in the morning for the right to document non-measure incidents.
Thanks.
You see were getting things done here. I'm all goose bumps...
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The grievance is unnecessary. You have the right to document non-measure incidents throughout the day, such as construction/security delays, waiting for a dock door, accident, etc, and don't need a log or printout to do so. If you have a smart phone, iPhone or iPad you can use the tools that they offer--if not, a spiral notebook will do.
Here is a sample entry:
Mar. 19 10:03 am Accident at intersection of Oak and Elm Delayed 10 minutes
This entry would be useful when explaining the late air that you had as a result of the accident.
You need to relax---you are overthinking this.
Here is a sample entry:
Mar. 19 10:03 am Accident at intersection of Oak and Elm Delayed 10 minutes
This entry would be useful when explaining the late air that you had as a result of the accident.
You need to relax---you are overthinking this.
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
You know your right and wrong. Every second of your day is tasked and assigned a time unit. Taking the time to take notes without authorization is still stealing time. Those notes would be rejected by any panel or arbitrator because it is fruit from the poisonous tree.
What your right about is the need to take copious notes though.
What your right about is the need to take copious notes though.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I am not in the Western Region. We have no such rights to keep day logs or anything at this time. We have never seen or heard of such a thing. But it was brought up in the UPS presentation about taking notes. UPS said nothing about it. UPS said don't worry. When they said that we all looked at each other and without saying a word we thought together, start worrying!
I agree that anything you input in the DIAD is company property and I also agree the company would never give out anything that is exculpatory. Can you give me or make available to all of us these logs books or printouts your local has provide you so we can begin the process of demanding our opportunity to document non-measured activity. Take a pic or scan a page of the log and make it an attachment or post it to a web site. You can make quick web sites on Google Sites. I very eager to have this template as I expect so many other in my local and region. I will file a grievance in the morning for the right to document non-measure incidents.
Thanks.
You see were getting things done here. I'm all goose bumps...
You have every right to keep a personal log of your route, as long as it is done on your own time.
I actually created a "daily log" that folds in half to the size of a pad of delivery notes, with common delays on it and space for the driver to keep a stroke tally of every time that delay occured. I posted something about it here on Brown Cafe a few months ago, and if I recall correctly someone with better computer skills than I made a downloadable template for any one who wants to to print them out for themselves. I will see if I can find that thread, and then I will see if I can post a link to it. My computer skills suck so if someone else is reading this and knows how to do that by all means feel free to jump in.
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