Dont be rediculous. They havent even been collected yet.
It isnt hard to make projections. Its the law of averages.
TOS.
The L-396 campaign trail is underway....
- Thread starter Evil
- Start date
Dont be rediculous. They havent even been collected yet.
It isnt hard to make projections. Its the law of averages.
TOS.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
G has now started personal attacks on me by telling my friends that i have no backbone and that I'm a coward for not supporting him. He figured out it was me who posted some stuff about him, I was not trying to hide anything I was man enough to tell him I would not support him face to face when I made the decision.
G, let me give you some advice before you go a little to far. I have taken a position on not supporting you, thats a political position and a decision I made on my own, i made this decision after carefully evaluating you and your RG Slate. This was not personal nor do I want it to be personal but Richard you need to stop calling my friends and quit making this a personal thing, it's not personal but if you want to make it personal we can do that. Just keep in mind that if it's personal you got more to lose than me, it's not me running for office, it's your name that will tarnished. So incase you want to continue down this path I will give you a preview, nobody will understand this except you Richard and anyone else that has been at some of our gatherings over the past 5 years and or anyone that knows about your weird tendencies and partying habits. If you want certain pictures and partying habits out in the UPS public then continue yourtalking, DONT MAKE THIS PERSONAL leave me the
To the BrownCafe and Local 396 members, I made a decision to not support the G Slate. Yesterday I was reassured why. Listen to this, my nephews best friend works at UPS, he told my nephew that some guys harassed him when he was getting to work this week. My nephew did not know exactly what location he works in, but he did say this to me, his friend told him that he was demanded to give his email, address and phone number, he was told an important election was taking place and that he needed to vote for them or he could be in a lot of trouble if he got fired. I could not dismiss the thought of betting money that this had to be Jose M. So I asked my nephew to try to get more info and where he works. So now I thought he was going to be from GV or Cerritos since my nephew said he lived close to south gate/paramount area but that was not the case. He works out of Main Street Night sort I believe, he said he starts at about 11pm so I am assuming he is a night guy, how I wish he was in my building so that I can come out to talk to him and tell him not to worry and assure him that he will be okay, but it gets better, he described the guy as a mexican, dark bald guy with plucked eyebrows, well who can that possibly be??? M this is one of the reasons I decided not to support you Richard.
Members of the BrownCafe and Local 396, I think I need to get more involved with my Union, I think the G folks need to get involved and not just bitch and moan about everything. We have a pretty damn good contract, not a perfect one but far superior to other contracts. The medical, my family and I have used it and we have had no issues at all.
Cerritos - Looks like this will be another H building.
San Fernando - Looks OK for H in package.
GV - This building is tough to tell. Either way for G or H
Main - Looks like another H building also. My opinion is that M has hurt G
San Gabriel - Another H building. The big names all support H, Richard will lose his own building and center.
Van Nuys - H will also win this building.
Olympic - Hands Down H, G has actually acknowledge this is all H, actually he said this to me, WE NEED TO FIND A POOR SOUL FROM THAT BUILDING THAT WILL WORK IT FROM THE INSIDE, G realizes he cannot get any support here.
In closing, I will say this, was I supporting G at some point? the answer is yes, but so did another 3 or 4 guys and they have realized that G is not a true leader and he does not have what it takes to be our Principle Officer. I have chosen to speak up because of the lies that are being put out to our members, let me say that again, OUR MEMBERS ARE BEING LIED AND MISLED FOR A MISERABLE VOTE, so I decided I would not be attaching my name to lies and later in the future have to come to reality when the members are confronting me about misleading them and straight lies for political reasons, my belief is this, Honesty and Integrity and you will get the same back.
Vote this upcoming election, vote for whoever you want but please vote! My whole intent of these postings are for one reason, to show that it doesn't matter what side you are on, but that if you feel something is not right to speak up and express it. I was willing to just walk away from everything, vote, keep my mouth shut and move on. G has made this personal because I will not support him or go out and campaign with him. Ernie we spoke and I know how you feel also, do the right thing brother, sorry for putting you on blast but your name will be stained if you go down this road. I took the time to share some of my experiences I have had with the G Slate because I want you to know what type of leader he could be if he becomes your next principle officer. VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - H or G but please vote and vote after you have considered everything. Talk to the candidates, tell them to explain what they plan to do in the future, ask them tough questions, look at their accomplishments in the Union, who can better represent you, who do you want by your side if you get fired or in serious trouble, these are all very important things to consider before marking your ballot, make a wise decision because your career might depend on it if one day if you need the Union for issues at UPS. Again - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - H or G but please VOTE!!!!
I will be voting for Ron H as I believe he is the best candidate to secure and protect our future.
Also, one more thing for Richard, Ron H is not my friend let me repeat he is NOT my friend, I have met the man and say hi to him every once in awhile, that is not reason for you to keep telling people that my mommy H spanked me for supporting you. My friends have told me what you are saying, keep making personal and so will I and believe me Richard you will lose, there is stuff not to many people know and I will expose you if once again you comment about me personally or say anything again about my family. Let this be your final warning, quit being a coward, quit hiding and sending messages with friends, be a man and say it to me, you know how to get a hold me. Keep the personal attacks away.
Thanks to all members who will listen and take my advice. let me say it again. VOTE VOTE VOTE
Peace and love to all
If I can't see your mirrors, I can't see you
Pretty good contract? I have little issue with your other opinions, and granted, the contract should not be laid at the feet of Ron. No arguments there.
But it is exactly this type of thinking that has us going backwards in our healthcare benefits. If comparing yourself to someone doing worse than you, is sufficient to satisfy you, than you will always be able to please yourself - because you will ALWAYS be able to find someone somewhere, who is doing worse than you. ALWAYS!
But to be honest with ourselves. We are either doing "better, exactly the same, or worse". That's a fact. There are NO other options. You decide which it is.
Because someone else is doing worse than we are, is not enough for me to say, "damn, I guess I'm doing good"!
Having to search for another company doing worse than us every contract negotiation, to make us feel good about our downfall - will lead us down a path to the second worse contract ever eventually. 2nd only to the absolute worse. I guess we'll still be able to point at the other absolute worse, and say," we're still better than they are"!!
Fact is that we went backwards! You all need to stop making excuses! RH is the ST of the largest local in the Southwest! He affected all members in the SW! Why didn't he take a stand if he is a true leader! Hopefully 396 members will take a stand against him and vote for RG! We can only have hope!
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
Yep! We went backwards alright. I just don't think that was Ron's idea, or Ron's choice. I don't believe for one second, Ron said; Let's screw the membership. I do believe Hoffa said that, and did that. I really doubt Jimmy asked Ron if it was okay to screw us with the healthcare. Ron could have said no, till the cows come home. Hoffa was still going through with it. Wasn't it local 89 that wasn't going Hoffa's way? Hoffa sure didn't listen to them. I think we all know, Hoffa screwed them, and Hoffa wouldn't listen to Ron.
We screwed up by voting healthcare plan in. My opinion.
Teamstersavant
Member
I'd respect the opinion of any slate member and their supporters if they had enough backbone to address the concerns and questions of the members. It doesn't matter if it's the RG slate or another slate. If they can't campaign properly and are afraid of the very same members that they want represent when confronted, then they have no business doing a disservice to the local by wasting the locals funds on an election. The members need to address their concerns at the union hall or on site when our current leadership presents themselves at the yards. The fact that you'd support someone like RG baffles me. The guy is unappreciative for one but most importantly someone who avoids members at every whim is completely shameful! I mean seriously RG and slate were a no show at the last union meeting. Respect has to be earned and for someone who wants my vote, he has yet to earn it. The RG slate is nothing but a joke attempting to gain votes by mass delusion and false promises. My recommendation for RG is to invest in a 3D printer. Perhaps he'd be smart enough to figure that out first before he would consider promising change by successfully running a local. Just think of the possibilities the guy could have; he would be able to create his strong backbone and if he's creative enough, a pair of balls so that he can address members when he campaigns at their yards.
Dave m 952
Member
The longer that your around, the more you will see is that when the economy sours and the company makes less, our contracts have less. Under this particular contract if the economy keeps improving , the company will make more profit. If this comes to pass our 2018 contract will provide more. Complaining that after the worst recession since the depression that our contract is slightly regressive is naive. Complain when the economy has been great and the contract is regressive. Perhaps when you have more than 30 years you will completely understand this.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
I agree. Not sure what your point is, or who your addressing.
I love these kinds of "irrational" posts.
First, lets get one thing perfectly straight. RH could not have done anything about the terms of the contract. At the International level, they were going to pass this contract whether or not we approved it or not.
This, they knew from the jump, so did RH.
RG would have had a ZERO factor/influence/difference in the outcome of the last contract. The IBT had its plans already in motion.
We could have screamed and yelled and voted it down, and it STILL would have been ratified by the IBT.
This is something I talked about long before it even happened and some of you rejected.
To suggest that RG would have stood up to the IBT is laughable at best. He couldnt even save himself the embarrassment of getting tossed into the street in las vegas when it affected him directly. Now THAT is more representative of his ability to deal with a tough situation. His record is crystal clear, he got himself tossed out of the UPS yards, and followed that up by getting tossed out of the Ballys hotel in Las Vegas.
Now, Lets talk about taking a stand.
Lets say RH told the IBT, "i dont support this contract and I will ask my members to vote it down", what would the IBT have done? Would they have changed their minds?
On the other hand, lets say RH came to us and told us to vote it down, that puts him in the awkward position of telling us one thing, then having to vote with the IBT on ratification without the support of the members.
Either way, he was screwed along with the rest of us, but thats the way it worked out.
If for one second, you think RG would have made a difference, then you are really out of touch with his abilities.
The only thing that would have happened, is that JH would have put him out in the hall while the big boys voted.
It would be the third time he got tossed out of someplace.
TOS.
Dave m 952
Member
My point is for the whiners to think before they post and I'm addressing that same group.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
That appears to be one huge group!
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
Like it or not, this does appear to be true. this was going to pass no matter what.
Read the Contract needs to read the contract and tell us what is better about it! Take off your training wheels two weeled! RH had the power to put the brakes on this deal! POS the longer your posts the more like a sellout you look! I'm kinda thinking you are the same person/sellout! Handing out free t shirts may work for some, but hopefully not all!!
Time4Change
TRuth HuRts
Let me start by saying Everyone here has the their opinion, like i have mine. It blows mind the way some of you guys think. Though its your own thoughts and opinions, it does not necessary reflect to what i believe is the fact or truth.
TOS, you come across as if you think you have all the answers to our Local 396 problems and concerns and yet you have done nothing since you left the union for whatever reason. I'm not here to judge you nor convince you of anything but I do not have respect for your voice when all i see is HOT Wind that goes nowhere. You put everyone down who does not see your view. In Local 396 You Are Not Well Respected from any but from a few from the valley where you came from. You will Not get respect from anyone else until you learn how to Listen to Members like you claim RH has not done. Your known by many names that I choose not to post. Due to ratting to the DM about a candidate in 2011, ratting on a member for personnel monetary gain. Believe you boasting about running in 2017 would be a waste because you will Not have the support from the membership because of who you are and the ideas of what you believe in. You may be smart in many ways but have burned so many bridges from your membership that does not take you serious to be a Leader of any kind. So if you like to re-invent yourself to be liked, look in the mirror and learn when to speak and when Not to. You may swindle Bo, Cerritos and others here but in the real world, you are nothing but again Hot wind.
Cerritos and others claim all this nonsense of RG getting such a hard time at the buildings, being the aggressor to the members or RH. It such BS, i have talked to the members WHO were there and let me say. These guys only promote false writing to win the Story lines of the site for RH. Speak the TRUTH, have the balls to tell it like it is.
Now as for RG, does he or his slate have what it takes to the run the local, time will tell if he wins. But are many members Not only at 396 pissed because of the contract, YES! Are we angry enough to want Change in our Union, Yes! Do we feel betrayed from our Union who we believe was to defend our views of our future as Teamster, YES! Do we feel stepped on locally with our own personnel issues with the company and nothing being done about, YES! They're many more reasons that i can post but you can figure out where i'm going with this.
RH, did he give a hoot about his membership at the local level, AW Hell No. Being caught up wearing too many hats and Not having the support or knowledge from his own principle officers to keep it running accordingly, Hell No. From JP as prez to JB for sanitation don't have a clue how to run the local. They are All dislike because of the weak performance. Experience is what the claim on their flyers, where is it? Do they need RH for every decision or do they need approval from him to feel they are doing the right decision?
At the International level as a trustee, he has No voice? Give me a break, if that is true then he is just a puppet, Not a leader. We are very upset because of these issues, Stand for membership regardless of which hat you wear. Your membership is your home and WE are your soldiers that will back you at any cost if you defend us. We are pissed because of All the Power RH claims to have and yet he could not get Southwest to back you? RH could have tried to stand on his own two FEET and defend US. If his stance did or did not make a difference in the outcome of this contract, RH stance would have gained much respect from all of us at the end. I would not even be here writing my view. So RH should have stood for us like we would have for him Period!
So do i believe we need change, Yes. If change happens because of those who Did not defend, it will send a ripple effect throughout the Nation. It will show that regardless of who you are or how many hats you wear, you can and will be removed by voting you OUT!
So i don't want to divide our goals but to bring the Union locally and International Strong again. Those in Power will know that you have the Power because we voted for you and we have the ability to strip it from you as well.
If i offended anyone here, that was not my intent. Telling you my views, Peace.
TOS, you come across as if you think you have all the answers to our Local 396 problems and concerns and yet you have done nothing since you left the union for whatever reason. I'm not here to judge you nor convince you of anything but I do not have respect for your voice when all i see is HOT Wind that goes nowhere. You put everyone down who does not see your view. In Local 396 You Are Not Well Respected from any but from a few from the valley where you came from. You will Not get respect from anyone else until you learn how to Listen to Members like you claim RH has not done. Your known by many names that I choose not to post. Due to ratting to the DM about a candidate in 2011, ratting on a member for personnel monetary gain. Believe you boasting about running in 2017 would be a waste because you will Not have the support from the membership because of who you are and the ideas of what you believe in. You may be smart in many ways but have burned so many bridges from your membership that does not take you serious to be a Leader of any kind. So if you like to re-invent yourself to be liked, look in the mirror and learn when to speak and when Not to. You may swindle Bo, Cerritos and others here but in the real world, you are nothing but again Hot wind.
Cerritos and others claim all this nonsense of RG getting such a hard time at the buildings, being the aggressor to the members or RH. It such BS, i have talked to the members WHO were there and let me say. These guys only promote false writing to win the Story lines of the site for RH. Speak the TRUTH, have the balls to tell it like it is.
Now as for RG, does he or his slate have what it takes to the run the local, time will tell if he wins. But are many members Not only at 396 pissed because of the contract, YES! Are we angry enough to want Change in our Union, Yes! Do we feel betrayed from our Union who we believe was to defend our views of our future as Teamster, YES! Do we feel stepped on locally with our own personnel issues with the company and nothing being done about, YES! They're many more reasons that i can post but you can figure out where i'm going with this.
RH, did he give a hoot about his membership at the local level, AW Hell No. Being caught up wearing too many hats and Not having the support or knowledge from his own principle officers to keep it running accordingly, Hell No. From JP as prez to JB for sanitation don't have a clue how to run the local. They are All dislike because of the weak performance. Experience is what the claim on their flyers, where is it? Do they need RH for every decision or do they need approval from him to feel they are doing the right decision?
At the International level as a trustee, he has No voice? Give me a break, if that is true then he is just a puppet, Not a leader. We are very upset because of these issues, Stand for membership regardless of which hat you wear. Your membership is your home and WE are your soldiers that will back you at any cost if you defend us. We are pissed because of All the Power RH claims to have and yet he could not get Southwest to back you? RH could have tried to stand on his own two FEET and defend US. If his stance did or did not make a difference in the outcome of this contract, RH stance would have gained much respect from all of us at the end. I would not even be here writing my view. So RH should have stood for us like we would have for him Period!
So do i believe we need change, Yes. If change happens because of those who Did not defend, it will send a ripple effect throughout the Nation. It will show that regardless of who you are or how many hats you wear, you can and will be removed by voting you OUT!
So i don't want to divide our goals but to bring the Union locally and International Strong again. Those in Power will know that you have the Power because we voted for you and we have the ability to strip it from you as well.
If i offended anyone here, that was not my intent. Telling you my views, Peace.
Hawfuh Sux
Old Guard Assassin!
Time4Change you nailed it brother.
IzzyTheNose
Well-Known Member
In 2012, UPS profited more than it EVER had in its ENTIRE history of service. Even the recession, which crippled the financial market, automotive industry, and not to mention the housing & building market, couldn't keep UPS from making money HAND OVER FIST.
So please explain to me how we can expect a better deal from the company that offered us LESS, even though they've been profiting in the BILLIONS for nearly a decade. Actually, don't. I don't think you fully comprehend the situation at all. For whatever reason, you're an apologist. But there's absolutely NO good reason we should have taken less on this contract. NONE.
So cling to your illusions with the rest of the apologists. But our Union squandered our bargaining power after yet another banner year, and helped negotiate a contract that offered us less.
This sets a terrifying precident that should be painfully obvious to see.
brostalss
Well-Known Member
You just scratched the surface. If you only knew.
Good points, lots of emotion and yet somewhat short on facts.
Let me address my absence first. I completed my term as executive officer/business agent and returned to my yard.
RH and I parted ways and there are many things we dont see eye to eye on. While our positions on UPS issues are very similiar, this last contract showed vast contrasts to our opinions on the direction of UPS.
When i returned to my yard, I dealt with my "local" issues as that is the only requirement that I have as a steward.
Yes, I recieve dozens of phone calls from ALL hubs for help constantly, and in most cases i can help to remedy whatever situation has arisen. Others have to seek help from the local where it should be handled.
Unlike RG, I dont parade around in yards that I dont belong in. I dont go to sanitation yards pretending to give a crap so I can show up in a publicity photo later in an election. I dont have too.
You want to talk about respect? Fine. Lets start with 2011. RG and his monkeys stood in front of my yard attempting to hand out flyers and such. Instead of focusing on the job at hand, they instead, collectively began harrassing members who DIDNT want to take the flyers. IN harrassing, they used "curse" words and berating commentary.
Before I arrived in the yard, I recieved a ton of phone calls informing me that "they" were in the yards and conducting themselves like
. When I arrived, the shouting then was directed towards me, and if YOU were there, you would know this. Unlike the members who walked past and simply ignored them, I used my "respect" with the company to have them removed from property. You see, its "respect" that gets things done.The company "respects" my opinion enough to move on a request. NO employee has to be on the recieving end of stupidity of any candidate. NO candidate has the "right" to berate members who dont listen to them.
Had RG's group of embiciles acted like the professionals they pretend to be, this wouldnt have happened. But memories run deep at my yard, and RG and his group avoided my yard this time around. Think about it, all the stories of RG's slate acting like fools out in front of yards, and in my yard they do the same and yet somehow, you believe it to be untrue?
The problem with perceptions at UPS, is that "some" people think that leadership is fist pounding and yelling in front of buildings. Leadership is getting things done. Saving peoples jobs, correcting wrongs in the daily business cycle.
Leadership isnt sitting in a circle pulling each others hair.
What you want to describe as "hot air" is something I call "critical thought", something that can be done by a person with "experience". I have that right. I have the years of service under my belt to have these thoughts.
Do I have all the answers? No. That takes collective thought and the input of many people. Can I offer alternatives to current issues? Absolutely. Unlike RG, I have "been there, done that".
As to our curent contract, there is alot more behind the scenes that you dont factor into your thoughts. But what could anyone expect? You dont have the experience to understand the "inner workings" of the teamsters.
Did we "Gain" in this last contract? Obviously no. Did we maintain the benefits we had? Obviously no.
But what did you expect to happen? You dont understand what was agreed to in previous years between the IBT and the company. This factors in greatly during negotiations and we may never know what went on behind the scenes.
As for RH, yes, he could have handled it differently, but that would have come at some personal expense to his associations with the IBT. RH has worked hard for 12 years to work his way to the national level and in cases like the contract, its coming back to haunt him.
Does this mean he cant be effective? No, it doesnt. RH isnt walking around blind or ignoring what "we" are saying.
Once this election is over, he has to get down to business and make changes that the membership can support.
As to what "I" have been doing all these years? Thats easy. I have put together a group of diverse members ready to run against RH. We didnt run this time because RG felt the need to get waxed all over again and lose yet another election. "WE" were not about to give him another excuse for losing by running as well. IF this loss doesnt convince him to step away from local politics, then nothing will.
If you truly are concerned for change and a different path for local leadership, then promoting RG isnt the way to go.
RG is only getting in the way of effective change. You could say, that he "insured" RH another three years.
You and I may disagree on this, but after the votes are counted tomorrow, and the election is over, hopefully you will ask RG to move aside and get out of the way.
Hey, I can take whatever criticism you have, its all fair game. You made some good points and I agree with you on many. But, remember, there is alot more behind the scenes to negotiations than just saying "NO". Its a political game within the Teamsters, and you have to know how the game is played to understand the outcomes.
TOS.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
How could Ron have put the brakes on this deal SLO? Not just slow it down and cause friction, but stop it. Keep in mind, I believe it was local 89 continued to vote it down. It still passed. How could Ron have stopped it?
I have not passed out any shirts. Be a little more on point. Because someone isn't accepting what you believe, makes no one a sellout, anymore than your a sellout because you don't accept what I'm saying. Try to remain on point, and states some facts.
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