Union unhappiness

[dannyboy]

Two things to think about in this conversation.

1 If memory serves me correctly, Bush applied sanctions against foreign steel, under the advice of the steel workers union. So with all this help, why are the steel mills still closing down? All that did was raise the cost of every thing we buy, but didnt save the American union jobs that it was meant to save.

2 Why do you think that the union TAKES the money out of your check every week instead of you mailing the check to them once a month? They KNOW that if you had to write a check for the dues that 50% or more wouldnt, thats why. Same holds true for income taxes. IF you really understood just how much they take before you ever see it.......

At what point is the Teamsters Union past salvage. At what point do you close it down and start over instead of trying to fix something that is that broken and corrupt. I really dont have the answer, but I do know that the way it is now is grossly unacceptable.

One last thought. The leaders of the migrant workers union has stated that within the next 50 years there will be a new nation in America. It will have part of Mexico, Texas, part of California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and parts of several other states. ANd this will be done by the will of the people in those states. THat will be something to watch for, the splintering of the USA by proxy. WE no longer are a melting pot, we are a nation of nationalities. And those nationalities will split us more than ever before in the years to come.

d

(Message edited by dannyboy on November 30, 2003)

 

[kidlogic]

1. A bad plan by Bush with not enough sactions is a bad example.(world trade Commision affected the plan) Use the Transortation industry. Tell me how come big companies dont just goto mexico and hire all migrant workers??? They could make 5 times what they make in the fields. They would come running.
My2cents your link has nothing to do with my post. Nothing to explain there.

2.Why do you think lots of states force people to have insurance. Because if they didnt have to some wouldnt. Why because you dont realise how valuable it is until you need it. Same with the Union. If the Union was run by god himself some people wouldnt pay their dues. They will have the same mind set as the uninsured driver. "I'll never need it..so why have it."

3. You dont really think that the group that would replace the Union would end up in the long run as any more ethical. Come on dont be silly. That's like the senator from some hick town saying he is going to congress and change the world. He comes back a different man. Realism instead of idealism.
And you really think that Unions in any form would survive the change over? Hheheheh You got to be kidding me.
You two remind me of guys who whine everyday about getting splits. They *%$@ and moan about it,but when a supervisor says we only have so many drivers. Who else should I put it on. They say "well hire more drivers" Idealist....A realist would offer a solution. Some other option that doesnt destroy what we have. You both never offer a better option. Do I think the Union is made of saints??? Nope. You guys descibe them perfectly. Do I wish they werent like you say. Absolutely!!! But when I take my 5 weeks vaction,my free medical for a family of 5,pension, and my wage for the year est. at a little over 70k for driving a truck. Not to mention that USA Today had an article stating that my job is one of the most desired with blue colar workers.It's a very hard sell.If you say it is because of UPS that I make that. You would be grossly wrong. It is UPS and the Union that holds UPS to my benefits.With out both I wouldnt have anything. I will have to take my lumps for being a Teamster.

 

[dannyboy]

Im sorry Kid. Im sorry you think so little of yourself that you state "I wouldnt have anything"

Ive heard that before, "with out me you are nothing". I just choose not to beleive it. And the world is full of those that have proven it. You limit yourself. If you want to believe that the union gave you what you have, good for you. I dont.

d

 

[dannyboy]

Something else. Both my brother-in-laws work in the manufacturing business, clothing. Both work for companies that make very high end duds.

Most of the workers that have lost their jobs were making 7-7.50 an hour. Not really high paying jobs. The problem is that the workmanship was not there. For several reasons. ONe was the equipment. Outdated, costly to run and repair. Too costly to replace. Another was a workforce that was not the most dependable.

So most of the buyers went south. There plants bought new equipment, some even with USA federal funds and grants, hire cheaper labor and the result was a better product at a lower cost. Every persons dream.

This same thing happened to the steel industry. Out dated plants, unions that demanded that things be done like they were in the 30's. Plants that could not produce what the customer needed and wanted. These plants had to compete with plants that we built, many after WW2. Plants that use much less man power per ton of steel than we do. Get the picture?

THat is why UPS has to change. To compete in todays business world, you HAVE to give the customer what they want, other wise they will go elsewhere. Now, wonder why FDX ground has grown like they have?

d

 

[kidlogic]

You mean to tell everyone on on this board that if the union were to leave tomorrow we all would have the same benefits and the same wage....come on...now your talking crazy talk.
I dont think little of myself. It's called context. Spend less time finding the few things that you can spin in my post and address it.I wouldnt have anything at UPS because the wages would not fit the work and I would find work else where.
You express your views like tie. Avoid the heart of the post and spin minor points. Notice how I express my view point to the the heart of your post.
You choose not to believe it...hmm.. If you close your eyes are you invisible???

 

[local804]

If there were no union here tomorrow, I can bet that more than half of us would not even be posting on this site.Too old, too slow, getting paid too much would be some of the termination blues.Why pay me 24 and change when a 18 year old will do it for 11.This is a BIG corporation with corporate greed out the . Open your eyes.

 

[deliver_man]

It's an undeniable fact that the Teamster's union has made UPS a better place to work for the hourly worker. What's interesting to observe is the convolutions and obfuscations that my2cents and dannyboy engage in when confronted with that fact. My2cents mumbles something about the NLRA and posts a link to anti-union propoganda (interesting debating style there: "Hey, go read this biased book that has nothing to do with the issue at hand"), while dannyboy launches an ad-hominem attack ( "If you had any self-esteem you would see that I am right...").
Neither one adresses the fact that we have the highest wage and benefit package in the industry, and it's no coincidence that we are also the only union workforce.

 

[dannyboy]

Kid, my point exactly. If the wages at UPS were not what they were, I would not be here. I would be somewhere else. But I would be making a good liveing like I am now. I would not limit myself.
THat is my point. And whether it be a union job or not, I would go where the money is.

One last parting thought. Corp. Greed out the ass. Lets see. I do beleive that it was ole Jimbo himself that invited the teamsters into UPS. Now why would you think that was?

d

 

[upsdude]

Neither one addresses the fact that we have the highest wage and benefit package in the industry, and it's no coincidence that we are also the only union workforce.

If there were no union here tomorrow, I can bet that more than half of us would not even be posting on this site.

You mean to tell everyone on on this board that if the union were to leave tomorrow we all would have the same benefits and the same wage....come on...now your talking crazy talk.

Guys..

No one has addressed the fact that if UPS were a poorly run company the contract wouldnt mean squat because NONE of us would have a UPS job.

Im very much anti Teamster but Im also pro union (freedom of association). The Teamsters have set up a pension and health insurance situation over the years that has done nothing but screw hard working UPSers. Why should a driver that busted his tail just as much as one in another region get less of a pension? We need our own union run exclusively by UPS employees. When that happens Ill be the first in line to hand over dues money.

 

[kidlogic]

Upsdude ..We know UPS is well run and we also know that UPS would pay us all alot less if they could so there is no need to address...do you think while we are trying to set up a UPS Union and we become divided that UPS wouldnt brake all and any Union...To complain without offering something better is whining. Do all of us wish that there was a sole UPS Union run by ethical repersentatives...Yes..Is that being real...no.. And the risk of changing it to a pure UPS Union would most likely result in UPS being a non-union company.

 

[upsdude]

Kidlogic........

we also know that UPS would pay us all alot less if they could

Sure they would. Please tell me the advantage of being the highest paid delivery person out there when you are 65 years old and unable to perform the work? Did you honestly think a 28.00 an hour top rate (at the end of this contract) wouldnt come with any trade off? More stops, more pieces, higher SPORH, and longer hours.

If, and granted its a really big if, we break away and form our own union the Teamsters will cease to exist. They have no one but themselves to blame. Sure, the markets have struggled and health care costs have risen dramatically, but other entities have faced the same conditions. The Teamsters seem to be the only ones in trouble. At risk of sounding arrogant, UPS Teamsters are the most honest, educated and hard working segment of the Teamsters Union, we deserve better.

Kid, you and I are in the same boat, we just differ on the best way of reaching the shore.

 

[local804]

Dont always blame the union for what goes wrong. YOU guys run the union and elect YOUR officials every 2nd,3rd Novembers. It is YOU guys that cut the deals with management,going home over, running your lunch, following unsafe methods to save 30 seconds, taking any and every shortcut possible,signing other peoples names, driver releasing residential stops before you actually deliver them ect ect.The Union is as strong as its weakest link, and it looks like there are plenty of them out here. Do the job the way UPS shows you how to and you wont have any problems. Instead of bitc%en about how unhappy you are with the union pick up the phone and call the damn union hall. Some people just need to think before they speak.

 

[tieguy]

Local 804 I keep seeing that point made but I don't see that it holds any water. Did your recent dues increase get voted in by the members?

 

[local804]

If my local gets me doubletime on Election Day, the day after Thanksgiving and News years day, has a 25 and out in place(no problems at all) follows through on all safety and grievance issues they can take the the extra $2.50 a week out of my paycheck. For the money we are making the percentage is correctly adjusted to our union dues. It just makes me laugh at some of the posts I see on this board.As soon as one guy dont get what he wants, he either bad mouths the union or the boss.Like that yoyo that didnt know what his local number was and was asking us.Why didnt he just ask one of his drivers or the boss.Why would he come and ask us? I like my job,union,pay,vacations(4), benefits and pension. I am saving plenty of cash on the side to make my retirement very sweet. I have no complaints.I am just happy I am alive.

 

[steamheat]

local 804 - yes, your little corner of the world is great. but that's all it is, one little corner of the world.
everything is not warm and fuzzy all the time everywhere else.

 

[kidlogic]

Kid, you and I are in the same boat, we just differ on the best way of reaching the shore.
Your right we are in the same boat. We can either patch it up and make it better or complain about things we cant fix either and sink the whole boat. That is the point I am trying to make.

 

[dammor]

"has a 25 and out in place(no problems at all)"

Local, I'm thrilled for you. We were told we were secure here also. Don't worry though, I'm quite sure this cancer will be contained here in Central States. You might consider taking chemo or a few radiation treatments just in case it should jump into your region. What would your attitude be then?

 

[delivryman24]

Just an observation. Since all this mess has begun, there have been a lot of theories on what could be done. Alot of you, by simply reading your posts, make some very disturbing statements.

"As for dropping the union and having none, remember who you work for and really think about that one."

You guys are letting a bad experiance that you have had with certain UPS management personel who have come through give you a bad impression. And yes I have seen a few of them in the 14 years that I have worked for this company. But those guys are not "UPS". There are people like that in every business out there, but I assure you they don't represent the company. If that were the case I don't think any company would make it 100 years (or whatever it is). You can't tell me that you aren't proud that you work for UPS. If you aren't. GET ANOTHER JOB!

"This is a BIG corporation with corporate greed out the . Open your eyes."

What do you think we work for? Not just UPSers', but anyone at any company. No company out there is in the business to just break even. WE DON'T RUN THIS COMPANY, NOR DO THE TEAMSTERS.

Unfortunately there are alot of you who think just the opposite. You guys are the ones who give alot of us bad attitudes about the UNION. The union is there to protect us if we are "contractually" mistreated. I have seen in my center many cases where "hard core" union members actually abuse UPS management by taking advantage of thier union privileges. Maybe this why some of the supervisors that come through are the way they are. I have heard many supervisors say,"We can't do anything because the union won't let us". They know that the "union" will eventually win on most anything. (Even if the driver is in the wrong).

Yes, I do know that we wouldn't make what we do if it weren't for the union. But each one of us needs to step up and be worth what we are paid. I am proud to be a UPS employee, but I honestly have to sit back and think, before I can say I am proud to be a Teamster. Right now I can't say that I am. Even before this pension thing came up.

I don't know where all this mess will end up. But as I see it:

local804 WE HAVE OPENED OUR EYES! And they are open more than they have been for a long
time.

 

[brownmonster]

De24 Good thoughts.

 

[rd0127]

Very well said delivryman24.