UPS LATEST PROPOSAL

[UnionStrong]

The USPS is a government extension.

USPS charges me the same rate to hit the neighbor with a letter as it does to take that letter to Hawaii. That's a government service not a business model that accounts for costs. Using them is a bad example as they are bound by government rules not private practices.

Plus pointing out something is slightly down from it's most profitable year ever does not divert from the fact that 2023 > 2018 volume.

Profits up from 2018 = slice to the employees grows.

It could never survive without the government

 

[Its_a_me]

It could never survive without the government

It was set up that way...look at their 100% funding of pensions. That's unheard of in private industry.

 

[Undertow]

There was a time when Full Time Package Car Drivers went into Management. The ones who did wanted an out knowing full well that the work demands were in place that would eventually destroy their bodies over the next 25 years.

Now .. no Union driver in their right mind wants to go into management, the final nail in that coffin was their decision to eliminate further funding into the management’s pension trusts.

Also .. there was a time when part time supervisors had to go on road and quality in 30 days in order to go full time. In our area they quit doing that some time ago, I believe the real reason was to promote women. Before that decision we saw a lot of young women part time supervisors not qualify and were denied promotions.

I do remember that being the process some time ago. There were employees here that couldn't pass the road test because they had never learned how to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission and no power steering. Those were the days...

 

[UnionStrong]

It was set up that way...look at their 100% funding of pensions. That's unheard of in private industry.

They got to write off the debt.

 

[DELACROIX]

Why do people keep bringing up raising a family on part time wages? How bad at math are you guys? It’s still not “easy” raising a family on a full time wage… you do realize even if a part time Wage is the same as full time, their paycheck will be half the size right? Because half the hours

There was a time you couldn’t get a mortgage if you only worked part time even at UPS..

It rings truer now…average mortgage in my area now stands at 2,000 a month not including insurance and real estate taxes.

The Company loves to create new part time positions, saves them a ton of money in every category.. pension, healthcare, etc…also they are easier to get rid of if needed.

 

[UnionStrong]

There was a time you couldn’t get a mortgage if you only worked part time even at UPS..

It rings truer now…average mortgage in my area now stands at 2,000 a month not including insurance and real estate taxes.

The Company loves to create new part time positions, saves them a ton of money in every category.. pension, healthcare, etc…also they are easier to get rid of if needed.

Used to be a real game changer when you mentioned you worked there.

 

[Undertow]

The USPS is a government extension.

USPS charges me the same rate to hit the neighbor with a letter as it does to take that letter to Hawaii. That's a government service not a business model that accounts for costs. Using them is a bad example as they are bound by government rules not private practices. Their pensions including health care projected increased costs are 100% funded---think UPS has that?

Plus pointing out something is slightly down from it's most profitable year ever does not divert from the fact that 2023 > 2018 volume.

Profits up from 2018 = slice to the employees grows.

Yeah it's not really an apple's to apple's comparison. Postal Service for a long time couldn't adjust for spikes in gas prices and definitely have been hamstrung with having to fund the retirement entirely up front. I believe they can now adjust prices upward perhaps as much as twice per year but maybe only after inflation has already persisted for an extended period already so they often are stuck back at the starting line.

The possibility of USPS buying UPS? I'd give it odds somewhere between rank and file members begging Hoffa and Denis T to step in and take over for O'Brien in current contract negotiations and ORION actually producing a delivery trace that didn't produce service failures when followed.

 

[oldupsman]

Off topic but was peak season a thing when you started? Were vacations allowed between Thanksgiving and Christmas?

Yes to first question. No to second.

 

[DELACROIX]

Your pension is pretty good from what you posted in the past. Also you seem to have your act together. Granted I have a little different perspective but hey that’s okay.

Everyone needs to chill out. We’ve been through this before. Many times over the decades. We got this. As senior members we need to set the example

The (UPS Pension Plan) has a cap of 35 years, no further improvements beyond that.

Frankly.. @PT Car Washer is trying to make the best of it…everyone who has part time credit years under the Central and Southern have been left behind for decades. I have seen that our negotiators are trying to lower the age requirements for vesting from age 21 to 18, that is a start..another one is to remove all caps on pension improvements past and present.

 

[DELACROIX]

Apparently the FT wage demands were met. So they went from $.55 per year in split raises to demands met that fast? I wonder what numbers they settled on.

Nothing.. yet

I have my suspicions about that so-called leak…

 

[PT Car Washer]

One decade ago. July 2013 UPS starting wage $8.50. Federal minimum wage $7.25 (the same it had been since 2009). Adjusted for inflation, 1968's federal minimum wage of $1.60 has the highest purchasing power. In recent years the purchasing power is about 35% less than it was of the late '60's and 25% than it was of the early 80's (when today's Trump/Biden inflation rates would have been considered an improvement).

Long-time PT'ers have long gotten the shaft by Hoffa's best contracts ever. To the point the Company had to raise the starting wages on their own without union prodding. That's how bad it got.

As recently as 2022 peak, long-time PT'ers were making less than people off-the-streets who were getting MRA's and attendance bonuses (as not all areas of the country paid MRA's or attendance bonuses). And those off-the-street part-timers were quitting saying the company was not paying enough for what was expected of them. They weren't even bothering to call or tell sups--just stopped showing up.

If anyone here thinks someone off the streets should be making more than a 10 year PT'er, then the union is doomed.

The current teamsters bargain unit thinks UPS offer is so awful they unanimously rejected it rather than give it to the membership to shoot down. That's all I need to know about how bad this contract offer was.

40 years ago the starting PT wage for skilled and preload was $9/hr. Unskilled was $8/hr.

 

[Brownwind]

There is definitely a lot of FT who look down on PT. They must’ve forgot they were once part

40 years ago the starting PT wage for skilled and preload was $9/hr. Unskilled was $8/hr.

Late eighties it was $9 for preload $12.00 driver starting driver rate with two years progression top rate was around $15 (I forgot exactly but I know I’m close)
Anyway part time back then was for insurance and extra cash not to support the family. I don’t think they had a PT pension until the late nineties.

 

[PT 4 Life]

Late eighties it was $9 for preload $12.00 driver starting driver rate with two years progression top rate was around $15 (I forgot exactly but I know I’m close)
Anyway part time back then was for insurance and extra cash not to support the family. I don’t think they had a PT pension until the late nineties.

I believe we need a pay bump but I agree with you about trying to support a family on a part time job. It’s not possible and if you want to make money you should consider driving. That ultimately should be the end goal with ups.

 

[HarryWarden]

Late eighties it was $9 for preload $12.00 driver starting driver rate with two years progression top rate was around $15 (I forgot exactly but I know I’m close)
Anyway part time back then was for insurance and extra cash not to support the family. I don’t think they had a PT pension until the late nineties.

Again someone bringing up “part time not supposed to support a family” why does everyone keep saying this?

Nobody is talking about part time being able to raise a family. Do you guys really not understand even if part time has higher wages, a full time position gives you twice the hours and twice the pay?

 

[UnionStrong]

Again someone bringing up “part time not supposed to support a family” why does everyone keep saying this?

Nobody is talking about part time being able to raise a family. Do you guys really not understand even if part time has higher wages, a full time position gives you twice the hours and twice the pay?

Your problem will not get solved here.

 

[PT 4 Life]

Again someone bringing up “part time not supposed to support a family” why does everyone keep saying this?

Nobody is talking about part time being able to raise a family. Do you guys really not understand even if part time has higher wages, a full time position gives you twice the hours and twice the pay?

You have people like this all over my hub that just want to work three hours and be balling lol

 

[UnionStrong]

You have people like this all over my hub that just want to work three hours and be balling lol

Balling? Sounds hawt.

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

I would assume $4-$5 over the life of the contract or they wouldn’t have met an agreement so quickly.

Agree, status quo like I’ve been saying all along. The $4 up front and $10 over the life crowd were delusional.

Not so sure about this, have you seen the raises in recent settled contracts? We are the standard and the country is watching, no way I would guess they settled on a 10% raise over the life of the contract.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Not so sure about this, have you seen the raises in recent settled contracts? We are the standard and the country is watching, no way I would guess they settled on a 10% raise over the life of the contract.

Just like ABF

They front loaded the contract took the head but they will make it back up all over the next 4 years with smaller raises

 

[cynz]

In my district they are going back to more pt jobs in the hubs. They have rounded up the combo positions in two hubs and have sent them to a huge hub that runs 24hrs a day. They are in the process of doing the same with another hub, they are putting all the combos on layoff until they move them to the 24-hr. hub. In a few of the hubs they have gotten rid of EAM drivers and are making the full-time drivers deliver the air. Also, they have dropped some of the guaranteed air times so they can make full time drivers deliver these packages also.
Before covid they turned twilight staff to a skeleton crew. Also, they took a large hub and stopped it from being a 24 hr and made it back two shifts preload and twilight shifts. I keep reading why more pt don't get a fulltime job at UPS. Years ago, our area had an average waiting time to become a driver over 10 years. Then they created Combo jobs, they would post a combo job for bid every 6mths, and the rules were a combo could rebid every 6mths, so it was the same 15 people going from one combo job to another for years. I think UPS game plan is to make most hubs go back to the 90s, parttime inside with fulltime drivers.
Part time pension in my district goes hours worked. Our pension is not run by UPS. The first two contracts I was in had a cap on pt hours earned for the pension. Then they changed it to 2080 cap like the full-timers, we still do not get the same contribution as a full-timer which I have no problem with, I feel very fortunate. I tried going full time driving and didn't make it. So, I would drive on Saturdays. I also tried to bid for combos 7 times, but even though I had more company seniority, Combo seniority wins.
Also look who's training the pt workers, pt management that never did the jobs. We have more supervisors per employees in our building, and all they do is eat and play on their phones.