vote no!

[Leftinbuilding]

The mere fact that Hoffa & Hall are pushing through this "Best Ever Contract" a year ahead of time, not allowing the members the time to review it, is indication enough for me to vote NO!

I still haven't heard Hoffa, Hall or anyone else call this the "Best Ever Contract". And "not allowing members the time to review it"? Where you been? Methinks voting no makes you feel like "one of the boys", because the reasons given here don't hold water.

 

[Steward773]

No offense taken No I am not in Mgt. I have close to 8 years with the company and have been a Teamster for most of that time. I understand having an issue or multiple issues that rub people the wrong way, however it seems like there are a whole lot of people posting about how awful the contract is and why everyone should vote no and how they can't understand how anyone could vote yes. This particular thread seemed odd to me only because it was about GPS discipline and how it would be a nightmare. I'm not quite sure how much of a nightmare it would be if you are doing your job to the best of your ability. If it comes to pass that the company abuses the GPS discipline language then it will be a much different story and I will be right there with the rest of you calling foul. However, I dislike the idea of assuming it will be horrible before it even takes place.

I agree that UPS makes a ton of money and I also believe there is a huge discrepancy between what a new employee makes vs what the upper echelon of management makes and it should be addressed. In my opinion the first step needs to be an across the board reckoning for CEO's making outrageous salaries and getting obscene golden parachutes while the people who shoulder the workload get the short end. On the flip side I think people who have been at UPS for a while make very very good money and I get a little sick when I hear certain people (in my hub as that is my experience) cry and moan about how $32 / hr is not enough and they need more - It is what got the UAW in trouble.

Now I stated that I am in the Union but that by no stretch of the imagination means I think they are perfect. To address your last point there is an us vs them mentality that it fostered in a union environment that, in my opinion, is more detrimental to loyalty and productivity than wage discrepancy. I believe a union is just like any other political organization or single politician. There comes a time when it becomes more about keeping their jobs than protecting their members. PT's don't vote nearly as much as FTs so their needs don't get focused on by the company or the Union nearly as much as they should. The PTs are just as much to blame here as anyone though. Apathy is a terrible terrible thing.

I am in the Union because I believe it can be a strong force for its members as well as for the well being and longevity of the company and I cast a vote with that in mind. I don't bleed brown and I don't bleed... whatever color the union is I try to take each issue on its own merits and make a decision based on the information as I see it. I am here on these forums for the same reason... I see too many people trying to force their ideas on others and I see too many posts indicating people are not thinking on their own and it infuriates me.

I get mad, I get frustrated, I get sarcastic, I try to be funny but it all comes down to me trying to do what I believe is best.

Pardon the rambling

Well said Damok

 

[1989]

Here's a quote from my 17 year old son. "If you vote no because of wages (full time) you are a greedy bast..."

 

[wolfieh1]

bottom line, central states needed a bail out, although the cost of living in these states are far less than the rest of the ups family ibt felt that they needed to sacrafice everything else to save these folks. now had the ibt got off their behinds years ago this would have been resolved. at our steward meeting, a rep from our local who was on this panel, danced around all the issues that were thrown at him. when asked how come article 40 wasn't brought into the 22nd century, his response was "I wasn't on that comittee." we need people who have balls bigger than hoffa's little ones and make the changes that the rank and file asked for instead of cowing down with their head up their hind parts and stop settling the first bone thrown at them.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

Here's a quote from my 17 year old son. "If you vote no because of wages (full time) you are a greedy bast..."

Maybe some of our employees will someday reach the maturity level of your 17 year old. One can hope....

 

[Damok]

Well said Damok

Thanks I sometimes worry my ramblings won't be deciphered.

 

[scratch]

Article 37(d)
"No employee shall be disciplined for exceeding personal time based on data received from the DIAD/IVIS or other information technology."

This is another part of the proposal.

 

[BrownShark]

Article 37(d)
"No employee shall be disciplined for exceeding personal time based on data received from the DIAD/IVIS or other information technology."

This is another part of the proposal.

Scratch,

this sentence has been at the end of article 37 employer/employee relations since 1997..

This is not new to the contract, and with the new article 6 inclusion of GPS language, you will have conflicting directives for management to follow.

Clear and Define language is what is needed, argueing over 4 bucks isnt the reason people are against this contract.

Clearly article 6 and article 37 will conflict and problems that result from the untimely termination of one of our brothers or sisters will force the Union and Company to revisit this argument.

Why not fix it now instead of later?

Peace.

 

[hunchback]

That struck me... it's something I hadn't considered and it's most likely a direct result of me not being a driver. However I would still say it could be handled by grievances or, if necessary, arbitration. Of course, having been through the grievance procedure (not arbitration though), I understand that it's a hassle.

I am curious as to what you actually do at UPS. I noticed that you post at all times of the day so until this post I figured you were not a driver. Now you have confirmed it. You write well, you attempt to come off as a voice of reason in the midst of all the arguing, and you obviously feel the need to express your opinion since you post an average of over 5 a day.
Where does your depth of knowledge of full time issues come from? I am not attacking you but you and some others I've noticed lately seem to delight in the positive spin and seem very defensive of the company line. The new contract proposal has struck a nerve with many people........hourly, management, stockholders who like to screw with message boards, and shippers. What's your story?

 

[cheryl]

From the TOS: It is fine to disagree with a different viewpoint, but please limit this to challenging the idea and not make your comments a personal challenge or make derogatory personal comments about individuals, their ideas or their situation. The latter is considered to be a flame and will not be tolerated.

 

[Peep O'Day Boys]

I still haven't heard Hoffa, Hall or anyone else call this the "Best Ever Contract". And "not allowing members the time to review it"? Where you been? Methinks voting no makes you feel like "one of the boys", because the reasons given here don't hold water.

The question should be more like where have you been? This fast track vote sends up a red flag. A good majority of Local Officials, including ours ,have decided to refrain from reviewing the agreement, including the supplement in which they negotiated. So according to your state of confussion, we should all just cast an uneducated vote. Methinks you're not to bright.

 

[agitator]

No one ever gets everything he or she or they want in a contract - it's the nature of the beast (compromise). The fact that you take one aspect of the contract and say you will vote no makes me laugh.

Please...Brown had an agenda coming into negotiations...First, EARLY NEGOTIATIONS..and they got it from us WITHOUT ANY CONSESSION...Second, they took my piece meal what they tried to take entirely in 1997...our pensions...this time only central states...in 2013, who's next??...and Third, they eliminated the 10,000 new Full Time jobs clause

Tell me jimmy jr...what did you get for ALL THESE CONCESSIONS???A "card check" agreement on organizing ups freight?????Could it be you SOLD US OUT, just to possibly get 15,000 more union dues jimmy????

"A nickel an hour for Teamster power"..rememeber that folks..where's the power?

 

[GA-BOY1]

let me start by saying.....
YOU DON'T have to HAVE a PROMINENT title to play a significant ROLE.

IF people at your center don't care how they vote tell them to bring their ballot to you....and vote NO.

This is one of the RICHEST companies in the world and this is the BEST they can do. I really think that while our "good ol boys" at the local are worried about which steakhouse to eat at that day.....UPS has had about
60 EDUCATED IE/CONTRACT people working on a way to totally turn the TEAMSTERS into a "paper tiger"...a "prepaid legal" type organization.

If this contract passes we are on a slippery slope with future contracts and with future I mean.......look at what they are offering the PART-TIMERS........***!?!?!? NOTHING!

UPS will NOT let it get to a strike again (govt won't either), AND they can't let it get that far........IF WE VOTE NO THEY CAN ONLY ADD TO THIS.

COME ON GUYS.....WORRY ABOUT US!!!!!!

Take the time to look at any other TEAMSTER besides us........WE WORK HARDER THAN ALL OF THEM.....do you see stress in their eyes about their job.......or do you hear....MAN I WOULD'NT DO THAT $#*# ALL DAY!


We can make this work for us......the ball is in our court. VOTE NO!

 

[MR_Vengeance]

Here's a quote from my 17 year old son. "If you vote no because of wages (full time) you are a greedy bast..."

that won't be my reason. i was a part timer once and i care about those guys........plus alot of other unfair reasons.

 

[Damok]

I am curious as to what you actually do at UPS. I noticed that you post at all times of the day so until this post I figured you were not a driver. Now you have confirmed it. You write well, you attempt to come off as a voice of reason in the midst of all the arguing, and you obviously feel the need to express your opinion since you post an average of over 5 a day.
Where does your depth of knowledge of full time issues come from? I am not attacking you but you and some others I've noticed lately seem to delight in the positive spin and seem very defensive of the company line. The new contract proposal has struck a nerve with many people........hourly, management, stockholders who like to screw with message boards, and shippers. What's your story?

"My story" is in another post. I am interested in the goings on here because it directly pertains to my job and the future I have at UPS. I find it mildly amusing that you think I "delight in positive spin and am defensive of the company line." If you had gone back and read my posts instead of just reading the time stamps you would understand that I post mainly to get people to think for themselves and to take all the negative posters with a grain of salt - just as I want them to take any information here with a grain of salt. Go do your own detective work about the contract and don't allow yourself to be led around by the nose.

I can assure you if we had an influx of new posters and all they did was come here and post "OMG Vote YES to this Awesome Contract" I would be coming down on them as well. It just so happens that we have a lage number of posters coming here and posting "vote no" and "this contract sux" with no basis behind it. That needs to be addressed and here I am.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

The question should be more like where have you been? This fast track vote sends up a red flag. A good majority of Local Officials, including ours ,have decided to refrain from reviewing the agreement, including the supplement in which they negotiated. So according to your state of confussion, we should all just cast an uneducated vote. Methinks you're not to bright.

The proposed contract is available for you to review. Now, if you need someone to read it to you, or explain it for you, that is a different problem. Vote no if you want to, but you can't, legitimately, claim ignorance as an excuse. ( Well, maybe you can, most of us can't)

 

[Peep O'Day Boys]

The proposed contract is available for you to review. Now, if you need someone to read it to you, or explain it for you, that is a different problem. Vote no if you want to, but you can't, legitimately, claim ignorance as an excuse. ( Well, maybe you can, most of us can't)

And again you avoid the Red Flag, and chose to insult me. My point is valid, and you lack argument as a result. The Union representatives are failing to follow proceedure. I've read the National POS Agreement, and will vote NO on all. Teamsters deserve an informed and fair vote. In the past members have won lawsuits involving national contracts, to enforce these rights.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

And again you avoid the Red Flag, and chose to insult me. My point is valid, and you lack argument as a result. The Union representatives are failing to follow proceedure. I've read the National POS Agreement, and will vote NO on all. Teamsters deserve an informed and fair vote. In the past members have won lawsuits involving national contracts, to enforce these rights.

Valid points? Your claim Hoffa/Hall called this the "Best Ever Contract"? Not true. Your claim the info is not available for review? Not true. Where are your "valid" points?

 

[Cole]

The problem with reviewing it is, alot of the language is alot less clear now more so than before.. We haven't even seen the supplement, and so much can be taken away in those.

I think it ticks alot of us off more because of the dark out and rush vote from the Union. We pay them good money, and they get fantastic pensions at our expense, so we feel we have the right to have been a bigger part of the process, and to be informed of significant changes.

There are some good points to this contract, but without seeing the supplement we have no idea what has been done on "our behalves". It calls the whole thing into question when it's rushed like this.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

Have you checked your Locals website for the supplement? Ours has been up for about two weeks.