Why collective bargaining?

[purplesky]

OK.. &? So? Did you just figure that out?

You remind me of my last rooster. He'd come running up every morning with his chest out, feathers ruffled, raring for a fight only to be meet with a swift leather boot to the back of the head leaving him dazzled & confused. But only for a short time. Next day, here he'd come running, thinking this would be the day he'd get his victory. Eventually I just felt sorry for him.

Are you guys going to go back and forth forever?

Wrong thread but I'll play along. Obamas smarter than you give him credit for. He went after the benefits portion of your earnings, the part that doesn't show up on a pay stub. The ACA uses the health insurance companies to increase the price of coverage for working people, the difference comes out of your pocket after taxes. Obama gets credit for caring, employers get the blame & the working class get fooled again.

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Obamacare is actually a conservative idea. Created by conservatives. ITS ROMNEYCARE.

Obamacare is an insurance pool where small businesses and uninsured have access to insurance exchanges to take advantage of large group pricing benefits.” Like the Teamsters have now with Teamcare.

“allowing children to stay on parents insurance until age 26.”

“banning insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.


At the signing of Romneycare, Robert Moffitt, who worked for the right-wing-think-tank Heritage Foundation, came to speak:

Besides the support from the Heritage Foundation, the plan was approved by two conservative Republicans who were secretary of the Health and Human Services Department under George W. Bush, Tommy Thompson and Mike Leavitt. In 2007, even conservative icon Jim Demint had glowing comments about Romneycare and proposed it as a solution for the nation:

I personally as a moderate am on the fence about Obamacare and the fact that Republican party leaders have become immoderate they can't get anything done in their own party now.

The reality here is that you are claiming to know everything about the ACA and you just don't? How could you? Its just now being implemented?
ITS JUST POLITICS FOR YOU? PERIOD!

I know several people(3 neighbors) first hand that can now retire early and without stress because they can purchase healthcare through the healthcare exchanges and these people have a retirement Cadillac healthcare plan option through their employers that is and always has been more expensive than Obamacare.

I don't have a problem with Teamcare at all.

The Republicans loved Obamacare until Obama got his name on it.

Its that Republican win at all costs and do nothing attitude even if it hurts the country.

 

[oldngray]

Obamacare is NOT Romneycare despite attempts of liberals to blame someone else for their own failures.

 

[purplesky]

And you do realize that your tax dollars and insurance costs have always paid for the uninsured? Long before the ACA(Obamacare).

 

[purplesky]

Obamacare is NOT Romneycare despite attempts of liberals to blame someone else for their own failures.

Really? Prove it? They are very much the same.

 

[purplesky]

Obamacare is NOT Romneycare despite attempts of liberals to blame someone else for their own failures.

And try to think outside of the left vs right box you are trapped in. Turn off Fox news and Hannity and Rush for a couple weeks.

 

[oldngray]

You claimed they were the same first. Prove your statement.

 

[purplesky]

Obamacare is NOT Romneycare despite attempts of liberals to blame someone else for their own failures.

Besides the support from the Heritage Foundation, the plan was approved by two conservative Republicans who were secretary of the Health and Human Services Department under George W. Bush, Tommy Thompson and Mike Leavitt. In 2007, even conservative icon Jim Demint had glowing comments about Romneycare and proposed it as a solution for the nation

 

[purplesky]

You claimed they were the same first. Prove your statement.

I just did.

 

[oldngray]

I just did.

So you admit your only "proof" is you say so?
http://www.whoromneyis.com/Issues/RomneyCareObamaNotDesignedAfter.html

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Funny that as ObamaCare is failing & people are waking up to the scam, suddenly liberals want to call it a Republican idea. Lol. ObamaCare is an insurance pool where the working class are overcharged & Obamas non-working voter base collects the subsidies. TeamCare is not exempt. The company is paying more, we pay more out of pocket & in return we all get less coverage. Next purplesky will be blaming the GOP for Michelle's thick thighs.

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[purplesky]

So you admit your only "proof" is you say so?
http://www.whoromneyis.com/Issues/RomneyCareObamaNotDesignedAfter.html

These well known conservatives did.

Besides the support from the Heritage Foundation, the plan was approved by two conservative Republicans who were secretary of the Health and Human Services Department under George W. Bush, Tommy Thompson and Mike Leavitt. In 2007, even conservative icon Jim Demint had glowing comments about Romneycare and proposed it as a solution for the nation

 

[oldngray]

These well known conservatives did.

Besides the support from the Heritage Foundation, the plan was approved by two conservative Republicans who were secretary of the Health and Human Services Department under George W. Bush, Tommy Thompson and Mike Leavitt. In 2007, even conservative icon Jim Demint had glowing comments about Romneycare and proposed it as a solution for the nation

Apples and oranges. They were talking about Romneycare which is NOT Obamacare.

 

[purplesky]

So you admit your only "proof" is you say so?
http://www.whoromneyis.com/Issues/RomneyCareObamaNotDesignedAfter.html

These well known conservatives did.

Besides the support from the Heritage Foundation, the plan was approved by two conservative Republicans who were secretary of the Health and Human Services Department under George W. Bush, Tommy Thompson and Mike Leavitt. In 2007, even conservative icon Jim Demint had glowing comments about Romneycare and proposed it as a solution for the nation

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

And you do realize that your tax dollars and insurance costs have always paid for the uninsured? Long before the ACA(Obamacare).

Only now its with a sense of entitlement...

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Really? Prove it? They are very much the same.

RomneyCare only affected the people if Massachusetts & the liberals in that state asked for it.

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[purplesky]

Apples and oranges. They were talking about Romneycare which is NOT Obamacare.

They are based on the exact same idea.

Romney's health care bill is perceived as virtually the same thing as the widely detested Obamacare because it is virtually the same thing as the widely detested Obamacare.
Both Romneycare and Obamacare include the individual mandate. Both Romneycare and Obamacare include sharp increases in Medicaid. Both Romneycare and Obamacare include guaranteed issue and community rating (like requiring fire insurers to insure homes that have already caught fire, and at the same standard rates as for everyone else). Both Romneycare and Obamacare include welfare subsidies for the purchase of health insurance well into the middle class. And both Romneycare and Obamacare include the latent government power for price controls on health insurance and rationing of health care.

 

[oldngray]

They are based on the exact same idea.

Romney's health care bill is perceived as virtually the same thing as the widely detested Obamacare because it is virtually the same thing as the widely detested Obamacare.
Both Romneycare and Obamacare include the individual mandate. Both Romneycare and Obamacare include sharp increases in Medicaid. Both Romneycare and Obamacare include guaranteed issue and community rating (like requiring fire insurers to insure homes that have already caught fire, and at the same standard rates as for everyone else). Both Romneycare and Obamacare include welfare subsidies for the purchase of health insurance well into the middle class. And both Romneycare and Obamacare include the latent government power for price controls on health insurance and rationing of health care.

Let's first make a key distinction: it is sloppy thinking to call the Massachusetts Health Care Bill "RomneyCare", since he did not accept a number of items that were forced in by the 85% Democratic legislature, plus the courts added in some items.
So, we need to remove what the legislature overrode if we are to see what RomneyCare (which would be what would have happened if his vetoes worked and he didn't have an 85% Democratic legislature) actually is.
He insisted on no new taxes.
He vetoed any employer fees. (Legislature overrode it.)
He insisted on a free market. (That part was accepted.)
There was no change in health insurance held already by the insureds.
There was no government run program.
The cost was less than 1% of the state budget. Cost neutral or close to it.
The only "mandate" that Romney put in was a cost sharing provision for "free riders"; he vetoed any fees for businesses (the 85% Democratic legislature overrode). This is dramatically different than ObamaCare.

From the link I posted which you tried to ignore.

 

[purplesky]

Only now its with a sense of entitlement...

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No you buy Obamacare. How is that a entitlement? My neighbors retired early because they purchased health insurance through a exchange.

If a poor person cannot pay for their own emergency room visit costs it doesn't matter what you call it?

Its just called poor and uninsured? Somebody will pay? You will. I will. Like it or not.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Besides the support from the Heritage Foundation, the plan was approved by two conservative Republicans who were secretary of the Health and Human Services Department under George W. Bush, Tommy Thompson and Mike Leavitt. In 2007, even conservative icon Jim Demint had glowing comments about Romneycare and proposed it as a solution for the nation

If the nation averaged the same income as Massachusetts then things might be a little different. Unfortunately there are more people riding in this wagon than there are pulling it.

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[purplesky]

Let's first make a key distinction: it is sloppy thinking to call the Massachusetts Health Care Bill "RomneyCare", since he did not accept a number of items that were forced in by the 85% Democratic legislature, plus the courts added in some items.
So, we need to remove what the legislature overrode if we are to see what RomneyCare (which would be what would have happened if his vetoes worked and he didn't have an 85% Democratic legislature) actually is.
He insisted on no new taxes.
He vetoed any employer fees. (Legislature overrode it.)
He insisted on a free market. (That part was accepted.)
There was no change in health insurance held already by the insureds.
There was no government run program.
The cost was less than 1% of the state budget. Cost neutral or close to it.
The only "mandate" that Romney put in was a cost sharing provision for "free riders"; he vetoed any fees for businesses (the 85% Democratic legislature overrode). This is dramatically different than ObamaCare.

From the link I posted which you tried to ignore.

NO NO NO! I am not playing this game dude. Obamacare and Romneycare are born from the same conservative think tank idea.

Obamacare has and will be changed(if it even survives) because we have several hundred million people in this country and no national healthcare plan could be written perfectly out of the box.

You can say what you want about Romneycare vs Obamacare but they are one in the same fundamentally.

I am not going to argue with a rightwing nut about this because its a waste of time. No offense.

You keep calling me a liberal and I am clearly not. If I were a liberal I would be proud of it but I just don't have liberal views in many areas. Sorry to disappoint you.