Would You Be Willing To Back A White Collar Union In Information Services?
- Thread starter jimmythetech
- Start date
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Scuba_Steve
Well-Known Member
Sounds great.... BUT.
Here are somethings you might want to consider.
There were some white collar job groups that tried this in Louisville.
Guess what happened? The Teamsters came in and claimed they already represented all UPS employees. So, now they are all Teamsters and hate it.
So, if you guys in Mahwah want to be teamsters then go right ahead.
If there could be a union other than the teamsters that would actually understand IT people, like the ITAA even I might say it would be a decent idea, but from what I know, all the IT people would end up being Teamsters and would be treated like second class workers compared to the truckers.
Here are somethings you might want to consider.
There were some white collar job groups that tried this in Louisville.
Guess what happened? The Teamsters came in and claimed they already represented all UPS employees. So, now they are all Teamsters and hate it.
So, if you guys in Mahwah want to be teamsters then go right ahead.
If there could be a union other than the teamsters that would actually understand IT people, like the ITAA even I might say it would be a decent idea, but from what I know, all the IT people would end up being Teamsters and would be treated like second class workers compared to the truckers.
jimmythetech
Member
The issue is accountability...... if the top management wants to have everyone work the clock like an hourly, then pay everyone for overtime. If they want to run operation reports, assume that you can run an I.T. operation like a package operation then so be it BUT then the employee has to be expected to now act like what you create. They made this environment, they created the hourly mentality, so if that is how everyone should act, let's do it. Everyone can work their 45 hours and go home. If something breaks then just pay overtime to the employee that is required to assist fixing a problem or get someone else that is "on the clock" to help.
The issue with the QPR is also accountability, when you are told that it is "impossible" that so many people were working at or above expectations and to adjust scores downward. You are told that each area must supply people that are to be "targeted" employees, even if you disagree with management's "assessment" of the person that you see everyday someone they wouldn't know if they tripped over them, you are required to make someone in your group as a low performer.
As far as leaving.... why? Why leave, we want to fix I.T. and make it a place that contributes to the organization but with the existing upper tier of management in SS that is impossible.
So let's wake them up and hold THEM accountable and keep THEM from being unethical. No one is opposed to being evaluated but everyone is opposed to being evaluated when there is an agenda behind the evaluation.
A union isn't something that is to be taken lightly but at this point in time there seems to be no other option.
If you talk to the average management person all they want is the ability to work in an environment that UPS had for 100 years. The policy book, legacy book and being held accountable to your QPR, your goals, that is what everyone wants to see.
Nothing will change without a big push, so the choice is to bring in a Union and let the workers decide.
Fair pay, fair benefits, fair treatment, job security..... look for the literature to be distributed in the coming weeks.
JTT, You are right on with your comments about the environment. The leadership in SS is beyond belief. The comments even by the app mgrs about the portfolio manager are heard by the lower ranks. The disgust is wide spread with no support for the person on top. Working in IS SS is like being in a concentration camp waiting for the liberators. Pathetic at the moment but could improve immediately with change so people hang on. Everyone talks within the groups they trust about change or the years they have left. Shocking to those who remember not long ago an extremely productive environment. Sad.
jimmythetech
Member
We have selected the Office and Professional Employees International Union. Again, as stated earlier it is about honesty, respect, accountability and fairness on the jobEveryone worker deserves that much along with decent compensation and a safe and healthy work environment. By joining together with your co-workers you can build an employee organization that gives you a real say over your job, puts you on more equal footing with your employer and ensures a better economic future for you and your co-workers
Your right to form a union is protected by long-standing U.S. labor laws. While most employers use all kinds of excuses why unions aren’t needed and put up challenges to block organizing efforts, workers succeed every day in building powerful employee organizations.
OPEIU can provide you and your co-workers with the tools and support needed to organize a union where you work.
and a safe and healthy work environment
a working environment that encourages healthy living. btw I wonder if the muckity mucks ever counted how many people are out on disability right now for physical reasons or for stress related issues???? people are literally keeling over!
a working environment that encourages healthy living. btw I wonder if the muckity mucks ever counted how many people are out on disability right now for physical reasons or for stress related issues???? people are literally keeling over!
randomUPSISer
Well-Known Member
I'll be interested to see how far and where this goes...
If this went through, I assume we would loose MIP but be granted an equivalent guaranteed payout instead. That alone almost makes it worth it.
If this went through, I assume we would loose MIP but be granted an equivalent guaranteed payout instead. That alone almost makes it worth it.
I am not trying to discourage you guys , or even know what level you guys are at, but do you really thing UPS will allow this to happen? Having union folks touch there systems? With all the confidential information, programs, software, etc. The last time I heard of this same situation, management was on the phone with conference calls in our district saying exactly that. They will not allow union folks touch there computers..
randomUPSISer
Well-Known Member
Without being for or against this... technically they wouldnt have a choice. Do you think UPS wants union people touching their boxes either? No company wants a union anywhere within their business. Many companies have them. It simply doesnt matter what UPS as a company wants.
However, if this gets any traction at all I would expect things to be very messy with random firings of anyone they think is trying to unionize until a union were in place.
That is no different than any group trying to unionize a non-union company though. It is always messy. I doubt this goes anywhere. We'll see. It might be interesting to watch the fireworks though if it gains any traction at all. Since I'm not taking a side I hope I dont get caught in the cross fire.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I am wrong as I am not Joe Union but didn't Mr. Casey invite the Teamsters to represent UPS hourly non-administrative employees?
Old Man Jingles
Rat out of a cage
Jim's dead ... he's a long time gone.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
No kidding.
My post was in reply to post #33 in which Random asked if UPS wanted union people to touch their boxes and that no company wants a union anywhere within their business. It was my understanding that it was Jim Casey who invited the Teamsters to represent UPS hourly non-administrative employees.
An administrative union would be a good thing but the road to unionization would be littered with casualties of those who try to lead this effort.
This isn't the way it works. The Teamsters have no special claim on the kinds of people in this thread. Labor Law and the National Labor Relations Board govern the process.
I wonder if you are talking about low-level clerks who's work advanced packages. There was an agreement several years ago that some of these people would be brought into the Teamsters Union under certain conditions because they were doing jobs on the shop floor that were (arguably) part of the existing Teamster bargaining unit.
By the way, in some locations, UPS mechanics are represented by the Machinist's Union, not the Teamsters.
You're right about Jim Casey inviting the Teamsters in.
But the idea that "the road to unionization would be littered with casualities" is wrong. The NLRB has a long list of all the things an employer can't do once an organizing effort is underway.
Any time two or more employees are acting (off the clock in a non-work area,) to improve wages, benefits, and working conditions on behalf of the group, they are engaged in "protected activity" and cannot be interfeared with by the employer. The Law is very protective; any violation is an Unfair Labor Practice. The Law seeks to allow the organizing process to proceed without being supressed by the employer so the employees themselves can decide.
randomUPSISer
Well-Known Member
That may be the law, but laws are only as good as they are enforced. Fighting back against any company that fired you for such activities would involve legal recourse. Legal recourse costs money. UPS need only fight a couple of these in court to raise the legal fees for the ex-employee to astronomical levels. After that many of the other people would be too scared to actually do anything, let alone go against the bottomless pockets of UPS legal.
There is a reason companies such as walmart have remained non-union despite what appears many of their employees want. Casualties are absolutely to be expected when making any attempt to unionize a non-union company. To think otherwise is nothing but a dream.
I agree that Laws won't prevent UPS from violating the Law, but Laws do give UPS pause, and agrieved employees can then use the Law to be made whole retroactively.
It also helps if everyone knows what is "legally protected activity" and what is not. If all of you play by the rules, UPS won't have any valid reason to discipline you. Their hands will be tied.
Go to the NLRB website, as they are The Authority. If UPS violates your rights in any way, you file an Unfair Labor Practice (ULP) Charge with your NLRB regional office and they supply the lawyer and go after UPS for free!!! If a union is organizing you, that union will, of course, know all about filing ULP charges and do it for you. Usually unfair action by an employer is advertized by the organizers as a further way to "rally the troops."
http://www.nlrb.gov
I realize UPS ties-up people in court and tries to bankrupt them, but that is because those people have to pay for their own lawyer, and they may not have a clearcut case so it is endlessly appealable. If everyone reads those sample flyers, doesn't violate the rules themselves, and familarizes themselves with the extensive NLRB website, any casualties should be few, and the damage remedied soon thereafter.
It also helps if everyone knows what is "legally protected activity" and what is not. If all of you play by the rules, UPS won't have any valid reason to discipline you. Their hands will be tied.
Go to the NLRB website, as they are The Authority. If UPS violates your rights in any way, you file an Unfair Labor Practice (ULP) Charge with your NLRB regional office and they supply the lawyer and go after UPS for free!!! If a union is organizing you, that union will, of course, know all about filing ULP charges and do it for you. Usually unfair action by an employer is advertized by the organizers as a further way to "rally the troops."
http://www.nlrb.gov
I realize UPS ties-up people in court and tries to bankrupt them, but that is because those people have to pay for their own lawyer, and they may not have a clearcut case so it is endlessly appealable. If everyone reads those sample flyers, doesn't violate the rules themselves, and familarizes themselves with the extensive NLRB website, any casualties should be few, and the damage remedied soon thereafter.
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