A Call to Arms

[Griff]

diesel.....I was relaying a case where the Company was fighting the Teamsters contract violations. The "John" in my story commited the illeagle act while he was being paid to honor the Contract by performing the duties he was contractually obligated to do. He violated that Contract. Do you honestly believe that Teamsters never violate the contract?. That a Teamster never takes more than the contractual lunch and break time? That a Teamster never takes an unaproved "short cut" instead of the method he was taught and instructed to do? That a Teamster never drives unsafely? That a Teamster never spends more than the required amount of time with a customer? That a Teamster never falsifies the records?

According to Griff it's only the Company that violates the contract, and the hourly is unfairly treated. It's been my experience in the 32 years I worked for UPS that the most vocal and outspoken hourly has more than a few things hiden in their closet, and when revealed, the hourly claims he is being unfairly treated.

What's your point? I really suggest you go back and reread the post, you're way off target. There's accountability for us on every level and thanks to weak union members there is none for you. It's your job as a manager to hold us accountable for those violations you listed. Are you actually trying to sell the idea that management "looks the other way" in regards to a driver violating those things you listed? What a damn joke. I have a 2nd job at UPS and that's to ensure the contract is being honored in every way. This kind of attitude scares management, at least bad managers that have to violate the contract, they want obedient workers who don't question anything.

Griff seams to forget, or just dosen't care, that both Company and Teamsters have areas they both agreed to comply with.

It's time to force UPS and the Teamsters to uphold and adhere to the contracts in which they ink and therefore agree to.

Try reading a post before hitting reply, amateur.

 

[705red]

Great thread griff! The contract has been agreed to by both sides, management and union. Yet the company only likes to talk about it when it benefits them for instance to discipline an employee. But when you file for supervisors working they try and ignore it until the grievances back up to the point that you could put a nice down payment on a house, then they ask for forgiveness and promise not to work anymore. Only to allow them to back up enough to buy a new car again. Its time that the company honor the contract and hold management people that violate it at will accountable for it!

I was in safety training this week and i was filing out the paper work, when the safety girl asked to turn off my phone, i wasnt paying attention then she asked again so i looked up and she was looking right at me. I asked her why was she talking to me and not the other 25 drivers? She said that all the union stewards phones ring all the time, so i took a minute to explain to her that if management like herself would honor the contract that us stewards would have no need for phones!

 

[tieguy]

What's your point? I really suggest you go back and reread the post, you're way off target. There's accountability for us on every level and thanks to weak union members there is none for you.=


Try reading a post before hitting reply, amateur.

In some ways I have to agree with you. The grievance process is a great tool for those who are weak minded and suffering from feelings of inferiority to get back at the boss. Feel bad that you never became a doctor like your brother phil? No problem file a grievance at work and talk crap like you are a big bad teamster holding the company accountable. Its the small johnson buying a big gun mentailty applied in a different way.

If it was a simple matter of you filing a grievance on a clear cut contract violation then I would have no argument. Management should follow the contract. But the attitude you supply is more , much, much more. You work to undermine the attitudes of the workforce every chance you get. You keep selling the evil company out to screw the working man hate trip in what is already a tough enough job. A few like minded small johnson / big gun types will join you in your daily tirade of depression and misery. The other ones that you demand now stand up and join you on your journey of pain will walk away. They just want to do a good job and go home. They are proud to work for UPS and don't want to fight the company that puts the bread on thier table. They don't want to fight the man every day. they don't want to join in your daily crying session of how the company is so mean and so evil. They actually want to enjoy life.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

In some ways I have to agree with you. The grievance process is a great tool for those who are weak minded and suffering from feelings of inferiority to get back at the boss. Feel bad that you never became a doctor like your brother phil? No problem file a grievance at work and talk crap like you are a big bad teamster holding the company accountable. Its the small johnson buying a big gun mentailty applied in a different way.

If it was a simple matter of you filing a grievance on a clear cut contract violation then I would have no argument. Management should follow the contract. But the attitude you supply is more , much, much more. You work to undermine the attitudes of the workforce every chance you get. You keep selling the evil company out to screw the working man hate trip in what is already a tough enough job. A few like minded small johnson / big gun types will join you in your daily tirade of depression and misery. The other ones that you demand now stand up and join you on your journey of pain will walk away. They just want to do a good job and go home. They are proud to work for UPS and don't want to fight the company that puts the bread on thier table. They don't want to fight the man every day. they don't want to join in your daily crying session of how the company is so mean and so evil. They actually want to enjoy life.

There is alot of middle ground that isn't being explored in these opinions.

You're one side and Griff's the other in my opinion!

The truth likely lies in the middle, and just like life itself you have to balance your priorities and emotions.

In this case, it's what is really important to you and also foregone attitude of the employee (be it a manager or hourly)

the "proud" hard working Teamster that is working to live a fufilling life in whatever way, does not grieve every little thing and whine like a 3 year old, but kindly reminds the management of infractions or incorrect methods and the such...and tries to instill "the right thing" without making him/herself look like a fool.

 

[Griff]

You're one side and Griff's the other in my opinion!

That's right and FYI there is no middle ground on this issue. You either defend the contract or you do not. They don't care what you say, actions speak louder than words. The attitude I supply is zero tolerance and with high scrutiny of detail -- much like how I am treated by management. We are all products of our environment, there is scores of people who feel the way I do, they just don't have the backbone to file for fear of being targeted. The way I act has nothing to do with self-esteem or an inferiority complex as pointed out by Tieguy PhD. Just another bad attempt by a terrible, petty and weak manager to try to undermine the contract and the subsequent upholding of it by union employees.

Lets get this one out on the table as well, since it's been brought up by more than one person. Filing grievances has absolutely nothing to do with biting the hand that feeds you. Don't use this as excuse for having no spine, 25-30 years is a long time to be a doormat. The people who abide by this mentality are almost always the "users" in the union. You know, the guy who works on his truck for 40 minutes before his start time, skips his lunch, never files grievances -- but he's all about the union once he gets fired. He's the first in line asking questions, demanding answers and waving the Teamster flag then. This is the kind of leech the union should disown, a traitor to our cause and creed.

 

[Tasb]

How about it if the Sups stop looking the other way when Teamsters smoke in the building, perform the job in a manner as to delay the end of work day, deliberately jam belts, deliberately missort packages, etc. How about it if we hold every Teamster 100% accountable each and every day. Try looking at this from the other side Griff. There are contract violations on both sides. But most Teamsters only see one side. All of the above happens in our building. Some Sups hold the Teamsters accountable others choose to let things slide. How do you want it Griff, how about the rest.. Do you all want to be held 100% accountable 100% of the time? I don't think so. Yes I am a Supervisor, and yes I let things slide. I don't want to fire a guy who has a family to support just because he isn't 100% on his job 100% of the time. But Griff, if you can get the word out to the Brothers that if they can guarantee 100% effort 100% of the time, and I don't have to look the other way, i will pledge to stop doing Teamster work. No firings... no grievences. Balls in your court Griff.

 

[Griff]

How about it if the Sups stop looking the other way when Teamsters smoke in the building, perform the job in a manner as to delay the end of work day, deliberately jam belts, deliberately missort packages, etc. How about it if we hold every Teamster 100% accountable each and every day. Try looking at this from the other side Griff. There are contract violations on both sides. But most Teamsters only see one side. All of the above happens in our building. Some Sups hold the Teamsters accountable others choose to let things slide. How do you want it Griff, how about the rest.. Do you all want to be held 100% accountable 100% of the time? I don't think so. Yes I am a Supervisor, and yes I let things slide. I don't want to fire a guy who has a family to support just because he isn't 100% on his job 100% of the time. But Griff, if you can get the word out to the Brothers that if they can guarantee 100% effort 100% of the time, and I don't have to look the other way, i will pledge to stop doing Teamster work. No firings... no grievences. Balls in your court Griff.

No need for your pledge. It's already in ink buddy, want a copy? I'm already held 100% accountable on every minute detail, so you obviously aren't in my building.

 

[Tasb]

Join the real world buddy. I don't need a copy of anything. I have never worked in a building where every supervisor held every teamster 100% accountable or where no supervisor didn't do teamster work.

 

[Griff]

Join the real world buddy. I don't need a copy of anything.

I think you do need a copy. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking about pledging not to do our work. We are legally entitled to that work, you are not, your pledge is meaningless.

 

[tieguy]

Lets get this one out on the table as well, since it's been brought up by more than one person. Filing grievances has absolutely nothing to do with biting the hand that feeds you.quote]

And in your case you're right. there is no middle ground. In fact what you personally propose here is not even on the same ground. You are obssessed with getting back at the man. Nothing more / nothing less. Your proposal is not to bite the hand that feeds you but to eat the whole arm.

I wish it was as simple as a contract issue but we know your motives run much deeper.

 

[filthpig]

Well, you asked for it.
I don't really pay that much attention to union or company leadership. Both have very little to do with how I do my job on a day-to-day basis. In my 20 years at UPS I have found that if I (or anyone else) shows up on time, does their job to the best of their ability, does what they're told and doesn't act dishonestly they will have a job as long as they want it. All of this whining I see here about "I got wrote up for nothing" or "I get hell and everyone else does the same thing and doesn't" is a bunch of crap. It just doesn't work that way.
Jack Welch, the former CEO of GE put it best : "No one ever got let go who didn't see it coming." Simply put, if you're in the office all the time you had better start doing things different.
I'm not saying let people walk all over you. We all know of a supe who has power trips and steps over the line. If they do it, talk to the union and get it took care of. But don't be one of these guys who walks around with a contract in his front pocket. That's just asking for it. You think your manager is going to like you making waves in his lake? Don't count on it. Remember: YOU work for HIM. Not the other way around.
And can anyone her give me an example of a hub guy losing his job because a PT- supe was sorting? Gimme a break. The guy is probably just wanting to get done and is tired of watching Daiquon talk to LaTakweefwa instead of pulling his cage.
Some people just think about this crap too much.

 

[Griff]

Lets get this one out on the table as well, since it's been brought up by more than one person. Filing grievances has absolutely nothing to do with biting the hand that feeds you.quote]

And in your case you're right. there is no middle ground. In fact what you personally propose here is not even on the same ground. You are obssessed with getting back at the man. Nothing more / nothing less. Your proposal is not to bite the hand that feeds you but to eat the whole arm.

I wish it was as simple as a contract issue but we know your motives run much deeper.

All I can say is that you're wrong. I'm not obsessed with getting back at the man, I'm obsessed with fighting for what is right. You keep putting on this song and dance about agreeing "if its just a simple contract issue". All I'm asking is that the contract be adhered to and you make it out to be something more. I guess there would have to be another motive involved in your mind, who would make such a big deal about the contract....A COMPANY HATER!!!!! Save the propaganda for the lemmings, I'm not buying your brand.

If you can't stand next to someone who fights for what's right -- what exactly do you stand for?

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Well, you asked for it.
I don't really pay that much attention to union or company leadership. Both have very little to do with how I do my job on a day-to-day basis. In my 20 years at UPS I have found that if I (or anyone else) shows up on time, does their job to the best of their ability, does what they're told and doesn't act dishonestly they will have a job as long as they want it. All of this whining I see here about "I got wrote up for nothing" or "I get hell and everyone else does the same thing and doesn't" is a bunch of crap. It just doesn't work that way.
Jack Welch, the former CEO of GE put it best : "No one ever got let go who didn't see it coming." Simply put, if you're in the office all the time you had better start doing things different.
I'm not saying let people walk all over you. We all know of a supe who has power trips and steps over the line. If they do it, talk to the union and get it took care of. But don't be one of these guys who walks around with a contract in his front pocket. That's just asking for it. You think your manager is going to like you making waves in his lake? Don't count on it. Remember: YOU work for HIM. Not the other way around.
And can anyone her give me an example of a hub guy losing his job because a PT- supe was sorting? Gimme a break. The guy is probably just wanting to get done and is tired of watching Daiquon talk to LaTakweefwa instead of pulling his cage.
Some people just think about this crap too much.

Hmm. Agreed partially until the racist in you took over.

 

[filthpig]

Hmm. Agreed partially until the racist in you took over.

I call 'em like I see 'em. No apologies.

 

[filthpig]

I call 'em like I see 'em. No apologies.

Hmm. Agreed partially until the racist in you took over.

And I don't recall naming any race. So there. Maybe you're the racist, making assumptions like that.

 

[upsmanckp]

The Right to Representation - Weingarten Rights

"The National Labor Relations Act's protection of concerted activity includes the right to request assistance from union representatives during investigatory interviews."
The right to have a witness present during an investigatory interview extends to all employees union or non union. The United States Supreme Court declared this in 1975 in the National Labor Relations Board vs. J. Weingarten case. The rights announced by the Court have become known as Weingarten rights, and they extend to all workers covered under the National Labor Relations Act (different standards may apply to workers not covered under the NLRA). Unions educate their members about the advantages of having a steward present at an investigatory interview.
These include the ability of the steward, delegate, or employee selected representative to:

• Serve as a witness to prevent a supervisor from giving a false account of the conversation Object to intimidation tactics or confusing questions.
• Help an employee to avoid making fatal admissions.
• Advise an employee when appropriate against denying everything thereby giving the appearance of dishonesty and guilt.
• Warn an employee against losing their temper.
• Discourage an employee from informing on others; and
• Raise extenuating factors.

Steward's Rights Employers sometimes assert that the only function of a steward at an investigatory interview is to observe the discussion in other words - to be a silent witness. That is incorrect! When the steward arrives at the meeting:

• The supervisor or manager must inform the steward of the subject matter of the interview: in other words, the type of misconduct being investigated;
• The steward must be allowed to have a private meeting with the employee before question begins;
• The steward can speak during the interview, but cannot insist that the interview be ended;
• The steward can object to a confusing question and can request that the question be clarified so that the employee understands what is being asked;
• The steward can advise the employee not to answer questions that are abusive, misleading, badgering or harassing;
• When the questioning ends, the steward can provide information to justify the employee.s conduct.

Finally, take note: you have the right not to engage in compromising conversations with your employer, even if the emploer claims it is for your benefit or your coworker's benefit.

 

[tieguy]

All I can say is that you're wrong. I'm not obsessed with getting back at the man, I'm obsessed with fighting for what is right. You keep putting on this song and dance about agreeing "if its just a simple contract issue". All I'm asking is that the contract be adhered to and you make it out to be something more. I guess there would have to be another motive involved in your mind, who would make such a big deal about the contract....A COMPANY HATER!!!!! Save the propaganda for the lemmings, I'm not buying your brand.

If you can't stand next to someone who fights for what's right -- what exactly do you stand for?

Sorry Griff I read your posts here. Every upser I have ever met who speaks the rhetoric you posted had some real issues with their own inadequatcies. They therefore looked to the union issues as a way to get back at the man. The end result would not be that i recieved legitimate grievances. the end result would be a lot of BS fishing grievances on half cocked innuendo that were a waste of my time.

 

[Griff]

Sorry Griff I read your posts here. Every upser I have ever met who speaks the rhetoric you posted had some real issues with their own inadequatcies. They therefore looked to the union issues as a way to get back at the man. The end result would not be that i recieved legitimate grievances. the end result would be a lot of BS fishing grievances on half cocked innuendo that were a waste of my time.

So you're assuming that my grievances are petty crap and not legitimate? Simply because I'm an outspoken advocate, on this site and in person, against business as usual at UPS? You know that age old saying about assuming don't you? I have a 100% kill-rate when it comes to grievances in my UPS career. I'll repeat myself, I have never lost a grievance and I've pushed many of them uphill, step 1 is a waste of time to me. Maybe you've seen some Teamsters with false bravado and childish facades, I assure you I'm not one of them. My perfect world at UPS would be a working environment that adhered to the contract and everyone, regardless of union involvement, was treated equally and with dignity and respect. Under this type of management, I'd have no case to file any grievances, now would I? So who really is the bad guy here, me or you? I think you need to seriously reexamine your obvious prejudice against people who stick up for their contractual and constitutional rights.

 

[tieguy]

So you're assuming that my grievances are petty crap and not legitimate? Simply because I'm an outspoken advocate, on this site and in person, against business as usual at UPS? You know that age old saying about assuming don't you? I have a 100% kill-rate when it comes to grievances in my UPS career. I'll repeat myself, I have never lost a grievance and I've pushed many of them uphill, step 1 is a waste of time to me. Maybe you've seen some Teamsters with false bravado and childish facades, I assure you I'm not one of them. My perfect world at UPS would be a working environment that adhered to the contract and everyone, regardless of union involvement, was treated equally and with dignity and respect. Under this type of management, I'd have no case to file any grievances, now would I? So who really is the bad guy here, me or you? I think you need to seriously reexamine your obvious prejudice against people who stick up for their contractual and constitutional rights.

yepper griff I understand. You think you have an obligation to boss the boss. Don't like the fact he demands a hard day work from. Don't like the verbal beatings you recieve when you screw up. You go to a family gathering and hear about how jimmy is a doctor and billy making millions in his own business. Then one of them carelessly looks over at you and says Griff you still drivin that ther postal truck? Company pays you well, allows you the chance to put food on the table and braces on the kids teeth. But that ain't good enough. You got yourself convinced that the union is paying you and that you need to go to work and boss the boss rather then earn your keep. Yepper see your kind all the time.

No sir you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you you want to boss the boss, burn his house down , kill his family whatever it takes to make up for whatever hangups you go. You don't go to work excited to provide a top notch service or planning on signing up new customers. No sir no job loyalty here. You go in plotting on how you can file more grievances. Don't ya griff?

 

[Griff]

yepper griff I understand. You think you have an obligation to boss the boss. Don't like the fact he demands a hard day work from. Don't like the verbal beatings you recieve when you screw up. You go to a family gathering and hear about how jimmy is a doctor and billy making millions in his own business. Then one of them carelessly looks over at you and says Griff you still drivin that ther postal truck? Company pays you well, allows you the chance to put food on the table and braces on the kids teeth. But that ain't good enough. You got yourself convinced that the union is paying you and that you need to go to work and boss the boss rather then earn your keep. Yepper see your kind all the time.

No sir you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you you want to boss the boss, burn his house down , kill his family whatever it takes to make up for whatever hangups you go. You don't go to work excited to provide a top notch service or planning on signing up new customers. No sir no job loyalty here. You go in plotting on how you can file more grievances. Don't ya griff?

You don't even have the sense you were born with. You're making ridiculous assumptions about my personal life in almost every post you make. This is part of the reason I ignored you for months on end, you make outlandish assaults and assumptions on people's person. You brazenly mock people and often stoop to the level of shouting empty stereotypes that have no foundation. Managers should be thoroughly embarrassed by your voice and presence on this website. It stands for one track mind thinking, ignorance and the ever-present "do as i say, not as i do" attitude that so many bad managers have at UPS. You look for the worst in union employees, this much is clear from your posts, so what delusional state are you in that leads you to believe you have the high ground here?

You have no idea what kind of a person I am. You might think you know, because of your prejudice, but you have no idea. Money isn't everything, which is probably why I won't be around to collect my pension from UPS. Like I said before, I'm a right fighter, I stand up to scumbags like yourself whenever you feel the need to posture up at me. I'm not afraid to lose this job and that makes me dangerous, you guys depend on being able to dangle the employment carrot in front of these peoples faces. That flag doesn't fly around these parts, you're either going to do what's right or you'll suffer the consequences. Simple as that.