A Call to Arms

[Griff]

My my stealing time is it? Pssst griff I hate to spring this on you but management can't steal time. they get paid the same no matter how many extra hours we work. You should probably master the concept of hourly and salaried before you encourage your brothers to file more grievances.

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Cheryl,

Don't worry there is no heat in this discussion on my part.

As I pointed out the call to arms by someone to step up the labor activity against the company is always more then just following the contract.

Its really a call to get back at the man. The person who pushes this agenda has other issues to deal with then simply following the contract.

The contract is really just a tool to try to be disruptive. this type of person will file many grievances and lose most.

Griff has demonstrated this point many times. Griff has made this point many times. However when I point blank point out what he has already said in so many ways he backs away from the point.

I don't believe I derailed the thread at all. You spoke on the need for a call to arms ..I questioned your true motives. Your true motives are a legitimate question to ask on this thread.

I don't know why you are so defensive on the subject. You've said you hate the job, you hate your management people. Why not admit your call to arms is just a ruse to get back at the man, job and the company?

You've been dismantled in this thread. It's plain for anyone to see, you're now entering desperation mode. People without bias had no problem understanding this thread. Why is that? You seem to be one of the select few having reading comprehension problems. I suspect it's not reading comprehension however, since now you are resorting to misquoting me and lying. Keep on stealing time though, you're a beacon of light for management. What's next after trolling my thread at work -- fixing your fantasy basketball lineups on the web? Thief.

My true motives haven't been questioned, there was never a question in your mind and you've made this very clear. You know what this thread is, you know who I am, you know who people who stick up for themselves are -- it's all company hatred. I get defensive anytime someone lies constantly and tries to assassinate my character and motives. Every post you have made is a pure bully attempt at injecting your opinion as fact, too bad it doesn't work with me.

I'm still waiting on your Call to Arms for sales leads. Using company time to promote growth would be a much wiser choice than trolling.

 

[mattwtrs]

Griff & tieguy: We all know you 2 agree to disagree so just let this go and spend some time with a loved one away from the computer.

 

[Steward773]

I don't think Griff is a company hater, I think he LOVES the company just like me! How can you not? misloads=$, pas=more$, sups working= more and more$. I'm loving it all the way to the bank! I'll take all the time in the world to get sales leads if we could master the art providing good service now, late early am's every day, saturday air not even attempted, packages smashed beyond recognition....quite frankly its an embarrassment.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

I don't think Griff is a company hater, I think he LOVES the company just like me! How can you not? misloads=$, pas=more$, sups working= more and more$. I'm loving it all the way to the bank! I'll take all the time in the world to get sales leads if we could master the art providing good service now, late early am's every day, saturday air not even attempted, packages smashed beyond recognition....quite frankly its an embarrassment.

Good post.

UPS will always be what it is.
No one can deny that this is a very savvy company that will always have the upper hand.
PAS; a rose is a rose sir, plain and simple here - The easier the job is, the lower intelligence of person is required.


The more PAS jobs and the easier it is; the mushier and dumbed down the work force becomes.

The more watered down the workforce - The less union strength and comradeship.

The less strength amongst the hard working ( or what once was) bunch....
the cat's in the bag..
It's a losing battle that the "good" will likely go down in flames dying for, but it is what it is....

 

[tieguy]

You've been dismantled in this thread. It's plain for anyone to see, you're now entering desperation mode. People without bias had no problem understanding this thread. Why is that? You seem to be one of the select few having reading comprehension problems. I suspect it's not reading comprehension however, since now you are resorting to misquoting me and lying. Keep on stealing time though, you're a beacon of light for management. What's next after trolling my thread at work -- fixing your fantasy basketball lineups on the web? Thief.

My true motives haven't been questioned, there was never a question in your mind and you've made this very clear. You know what this thread is, you know who I am, you know who people who stick up for themselves are -- it's all company hatred. I get defensive anytime someone lies constantly and tries to assassinate my character and motives. Every post you have made is a pure bully attempt at injecting your opinion as fact, too bad it doesn't work with me.

I'm still waiting on your Call to Arms for sales leads. Using company time to promote growth would be a much wiser choice than trolling.

I'm not surprised that you would take your creativity to new arenas

Ok.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Tell me how much you love your job, boss and company.

 

[dilligaf]

Tie you are way out of line on this and need step down off your white stallion you are riding. You want to talk about "speaking the truth" then why don't you do it. Why don't you admit that the company violates our contract every single day, in some way or another. My stewards, nor Griff, nor the majority of any other Teamster stewards have to trump up charges to file grievances on. Every one of us (Teamsters) know that every day we come to work we won't have to wait long for the violations start. The company does it to themselves. We don't make them violate us. I for one, and I'm positive that everyone of us would agree, that we all would be quite happy to not be violated. And I for one would be happy to have Griff as my steward. He obviously is very passionate about protecting those rights that you seem to think I don't deserve. You want to talk about a Call To Arms to bring in more business. WHY would I want to bring in more business when the company 1. Does not appreciate (they just demand more), 2. Does nothing to improve my working conditions when when we need more routes because our(at my center) volume has tripled in the last 10 years but the the number of drivers has stayed the same. You want to point the finger you need to remember that there are 3 fingers pointing back at yourself. I wish my steward was half as diligent as Griff seems to be at protecting members rights. We are contracted labor. That IS different than being an employee of UPS. It may be a miniscule difference to you but it is a difference and that difference is the word "CONTRACT". This contract should make our (yours and mine) work relationship a symbiotic one. However it is not! Our work relationship seems to have morphed onto a parasitc relationship. How much more are you going to try and bleed off of me? And yes, I believe it is because the Teamsters as a whole no longer have the respect that they used to have. I believe, and I think Griff has tried to make this point also, that the upper levels of the Teamsters and UPS mgt have forgotten that it is the customers (Griff, I am adding this to make a point) and the blue collar laborers that make this company work. Without us you don't have a job and without the customers NONE of us would have a job. You want respect then you need to give respect. (the same is true in the opposite direction, too) The fact is UPS violates us every day. So you speak the truth, you admit this to be true. And furthermore how dare you tell Cheryl "This contract is really just a tool to try to be disruptive". This has nothing to do with being "disruptive" or "hating the man", this has EVERYTHING to do with what's right and wrong. So again Tie get off your high horse. And maybe your should master the concept of humility.

 

[tieguy]

Tie you are way out of line on this and need step down off your white stallion you are riding. You want to talk about "speaking the truth" then why don't you do it. Why don't you admit that the company violates our contract every single day, in some way or another. My stewards, nor Griff, nor the majority of any other Teamster stewards have to trump up charges to file grievances on. Every one of us (Teamsters) know that every day we come to work we won't have to wait long for the violations start. The company does it to themselves. We don't make them violate us. I for one, and I'm positive that everyone of us would agree, that we all would be quite happy to not be violated. And I for one would be happy to have Griff as my steward. He obviously is very passionate about protecting those rights that you seem to think I don't deserve. You want to talk about a Call To Arms to bring in more business. WHY would I want to bring in more business when the company 1. Does not appreciate (they just demand more), 2. Does nothing to improve my working conditions when when we need more routes because our(at my center) volume has tripled in the last 10 years but the the number of drivers has stayed the same. You want to point the finger you need to remember that there are 3 fingers pointing back at yourself. I wish my steward was half as diligent as Griff seems to be at protecting members rights. We are contracted labor. That IS different than being an employee of UPS. It may be a miniscule difference to you but it is a difference and that difference is the word "CONTRACT". This contract should make our (yours and mine) work relationship a symbiotic one. However it is not! Our work relationship seems to have morphed onto a parasitc relationship. How much more are you going to try and bleed off of me? And yes, I believe it is because the Teamsters as a whole no longer have the respect that they used to have. I believe, and I think Griff has tried to make this point also, that the upper levels of the Teamsters and UPS mgt have forgotten that it is the customers (Griff, I am adding this to make a point) and the blue collar laborers that make this company work. Without us you don't have a job and without the customers NONE of us would have a job. You want respect then you need to give respect. (the same is true in the opposite direction, too) The fact is UPS violates us every day. So you speak the truth, you admit this to be true. And furthermore how dare you tell Cheryl "This contract is really just a tool to try to be disruptive". This has nothing to do with being "disruptive" or "hating the man", this has EVERYTHING to do with what's right and wrong. So again Tie get off your high horse. And maybe your should master the concept of humility.

your post with the colorfull rhetoric again illustrates deep seated issues that are the root of a call for arms. Take a step back and look at what you just posted and ask yourself what kind of person just made such a post? Its not your job to boss the boss. If the boss violates the contract file your grievance and be done with it. If not then do your job and don't worry about the boss. You guys have deep seated emotional issues against power , your dislike for the job etc that are really the root cause of your union labor games. Each time one of you jumps in to deny this point you again illustrate it as you did.

 

[feeder53]

One must look inward on issues of this type and be honest with oneself to truly see the "core" issue. I take no sides in this debate but I look to the UPS team, to include the union, Employees and management to move us forward and focus on the job at hand. The tools have been given to us, we must use them for our betterment.

 

[Captain America]

I am just looking for some truth,honesty and fairness from union and management. It sounds to me like that is all Griff is asking for. You deal fairly with someone you expect the same in return or you get angry that they are abusing your good nature.ALL HAIL GRIFF!

 

[brownmonster]

Does nothing to improve my working conditions when when we need more routes because our(at my center) volume has tripled in the last 10 years but the the number of drivers has stayed the same.



Wow, I think if our volume tripled we would have a few more drivers. Must of been a cake walk before.

 

[dilligaf]

I don't know I wasn't here then but my old steward was.

 

[brownmonster]

OK Tie, Dill just lobbed that one up, hit it out of the park.

 

[dilligaf]

I'm so scared............NOT

 

[tieguy]

OK Tie, Dill just lobbed that one up, hit it out of the park.

Naaaa....Dill's ok. Its been a good debate. I think there's some truth on both sides of this discussion.

Even when Griff or Dill debate me on motives I'm sure they know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[brownIEman]

OK Tie, Dill just lobbed that one up, hit it out of the park.

Please allow me...

Dill,
I believe your steward has been exaggerating to say the least. I would not doubt average stops per car have risen over the past ten years, but I also have no doubt that there are no centers anywhere in AZ were the volume has tripled without adding a single driver... In fact, I doubt there is a center in AZ that has not added any drivers between 1998 and now.

come to think of it, I could look at the drivers on road stats in PKG and see if there are any centers that have not gone up... will let you know what I find out...

 

[705red]

Griff is right on woth his original post about holding the union and ups management acountable. Tie might be right on with his guess that we (stewards) hold a grudge sometimes. As a steward if you never have gotten upset at how someone or a work group has been treated than you do not care enough about the people you represent and you should step down. Now with that being said that does not mean that we run around creating bs grievances, it means we are more likely not to overlook the petty ones.

Im not sure if the national contract commitee had any rank and file upsers on it and this is were i believe the trouble starts. Its easy for people to sit down and agree to language that either they have no understanding of our jobs or have no plan on ever going back to work under it. Thats why here we have rank and file upsers on our negioating team, people that work under these rules on an everyday basis, to stress how bad this or that could be.

The same goes for the company, their committee is made up of labor and ceo big shots, who do not have to manage a preload, sort, package center, feeder dept, etc. The language gets put in without any say so from the people who have to deal with everyday operational problems. Now they try to stretch the rules and even break them to run their operations and this is were all the fighting, grievances and hostility comes from.

Next contract 1 manager from each department should sit down with 1 union member from every department and come out with an understanding on how to run the business. We can cut out all the people that dont have a clue, like hoffa ever did 400 stops in a ups truck at xmas, or scott davis ever ran a set of doubles 400 miles in a snow storm! Just my opinion, people that have been out of the operational loop for sometime have no idea what we the current employees go through everyday, even if they say i know i have been there!

 

[Braveheart]

It's time to stop letting UPS management get away with their status-quo operation. It's time to start holding management and union delegates accountable at every level. It's time to force UPS and the Teamsters to uphold and adhere to the contracts in which they ink and therefore agree to. It's incumbent upon each and every Teamster, regardless of job or title, to not allow contract violations to go unnoticed. A response is needed and it starts with you, stop looking away and going along to get along. It serves no purpose and you aren't doing yourself or anyone else of importance (union coworkers) any favors. You might think you're gaining something, but in reality you're the one losing. I'm running into too many people who are afraid to make a wave, scared of their own shadow, walking on eggshells around management. Why exactly are you paying union dues again? The main purpose of a union is to improve workplace conditions and treatment. Stop being a doormat for your local management team and start fighting for your contractual and constitutional rights. I promise you, your favors and turns of the head will be forgotten if you ever stumble into a situation where they want to make an example of someone. If all of us did our part and forced the issue, favoritism and headhunting would be a thing of the past, they cannot target everyone. What you do on a local level can have an impact on the national level. It starts at your local, in your building and in your center; stand up and be counted as a Teamster.

I agree 100%!!! We have a bunch of drivers walking around with their head down and tail between their legs. They are living scared. I refuse to be treated as if I am to live in fear. I take things head on and sometimes on the "end around" so to speak but I always at least try to take on these attacks on our rights.

Many of these non-waving making drivers have no idea how lucky they are that there are guys like us to hold the line and defend their rights.

 

[tieguy]

Many of these non-waving making drivers have no idea how lucky they are that there are guys like us to hold the line and defend their rights.

There is some truth to that. Generally you have two or three knuckleheads that require some significant management time. The rest may get less attention as a result. But they also join us in laughing at the fools who are in the office again.

 

[mva1985]

I agree 100%!!! We have a bunch of drivers walking around with their head down and tail between their legs. They are living scared. I refuse to be treated as if I am to live in fear. I take things head on and sometimes on the "end around" so to speak but I always at least try to take on these attacks on our rights.

Many of these non-waving making drivers have no idea how lucky they are that there are guys like us to hold the line and defend their rights.

There are alot of PT's with low seniority who are also afraid to make waves.

 

[trplnkl]

That's a goo post Red. Too bad we'll never see that happen.