anti-management

[susiedriver]

bamboomga,

Two pieces of advice: Shoot the scorpion and walk away from UPS.

Stay safe, get home with your body and mind intact.

Best,

Susie

 

[tieguy]

Ah its good to hear my brothers and sisters of the evil empire are upholding the fine traditions of the demon seed.

I would perhaps offer more insight into this sordid state of affairs but alas my horns and pitchfork requiring their weekly sharpening.

 

[deliver_man]

Kim Cotter would be so proud to hear you say that, Tie

Every once in a while, when the moon is full, I miss that fruit loop in a weird sort of way. Wonder what ever happened to her.

 

[wkmac]

LOL @ tieguy

bamboonga,
Just get your degree and take it elsewhere. At the end of the day I'll bet you'll be glad you did. We just had a specialist who got his degree and was told there was nothing for him. Instead of waiting like he was told he decided to look for himself and he's extremely happy working for someone else at almost 3 times the pay and probably nearly twice what he would have made if he had became a supervisor. The better part is the job is 8 hours a day 5 days a week and the job doesn't go home with him. I got it from a very good source that upper management said if it had known what he was up to would have scuttled the job opportunity and then found a way to can him from UPS. I'm sad to say I have to believe this in this day and time.

IMO UPS ain't what it once was so maybe in reality someone was really doing you a favor. The best thing to do is go elsewhere and be twice as successful and then enjoy the last laugh!

Good luck and thanks for your service and putting up with the nonsense you did. If what you said is true, it's all bullschitt IMO but sadly I can't say I'm surprised at all.

 

[bamboonga]

"Managements roll at ups is to allow us to do our jobs to the best of our ability. It is also their jobs to remove barriers that interfere with our rapid completion of that job.

unfortunatly, instead of removing barriers, they have placed them in our way. Some new technologies are great and do much to help out the driver and the customer. Others are done just to please the management structure and have no benifit to the customer or the driver."

If that's their established role then I'm not surprised they've lost their way. Their role SHOULD be to direct all the workers to maintain and improve the system by which they work and constantly be on the lookout for safety hazards, as well as productivity hazards...I think their main fallacy is that the only way they seem to think of to improve production is to make us work harder - they never think of greasing that belt that keeps jamming up and causing everything to stop, or moving that slide a little to the left so packages don't jam up at the top...as far as they see it, the only way to improve productivity seems to lie with the workers.

I don't know how this would apply to drivers, which most folks here seem to be...what I do know is that they're always after the cheap fix, and it tends to cost very little (even in opportunity cost) to yell at Joe that he's not working fast enough/taking too many bathroom breaks/not following methods than it does to fix a mechanical problem that is slowing down an entire sort.

People at the bottom know this - I think if UPS implemented a 360 degree ratings system for all management personnel, you'd have a much easier time weeding out the ty supes from the good ones and you'd find out who at the bottom has their eye on the ball most of the time...

 

[dannyboy]

Tie

I know you have horns; you and I have locked them on occasion.

As for the fork, I will have to take you word for that one.

Not all management is created the same. The ones that make life bad are those that are only looking for a promotion or transfer into another job. All they care about are the numbers and how they look on paper. As for people skills, they have none. Oh they might sound good at times, but that is about it.

Then there are those that would give their right arm for the people that work in the center. They bend over backwards when ever they can for the people. And unfortunately there are those that take advantage of this type of manager.

But it is a shame that there have been at least 20 times in my 31 years at ups that I personally have seen or heard of a member of an hourlys family either being taken to the hospital in dire straits or dying, and management not doing anything about it. Even though they could and should have. I have also seen management harass drivers into the ground to where they quit, for no good reason. One was just because of the gender of the driver.

So while UPS is a good company to work for, there have been times where they have hired personnel that have acted shamefully in the name of the employer. And for all the joking that those in management that post here do, you know that this statement is 100% true.

d

 

[air_upser]

Absolutely true Dannyboy. I just try to stick of up for those who really do try to make a difference and do the right thing. I've had a couple of bad managers in my short career as well...unfortunately UPS does not like to let people go...they just move them around. I have no ides why. Most of the time, they just lack common sense and an empathetic heart. Case in point- I was a supervisor in NJ during the big storm of 96. There was 24 inches of snow on the ground and a state of emergency was declared, meaning no one was supposed to be out on the roads. Sure enough, the boss called us in. It took me 3 hours to get there, stayed for 45 minutes, then they told us all to home. 3 hours later I was home again and really wanted to scream at someone. It was so stupid.
The next thing that really really pissed me off was 9/11. Everyone was glued to the TVs trying to figure out what was going on. We were all just shocked, stunned, etc. You would think everyone would just go home and be with their families. Well, a manager decided not to cancel his meeting in the afternoon. Luckily, he wasn't my direct boss because I let him know in front of everyone what a stupid and insensitive thing he did on such a horrible day.
The bottom line is any corporate has bad management. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. You will find bad managers in the most popular companies to work for.

 

[tieguy]

"The last time I asked him, his response was 'Well, that all depends...are you going to be sent to the Middle East anytime soon?'. At that time I didn't know, so I told him so. His reply was that he didn't know how my promotion was doing. Before and after this happened, I had been repeatedly told that I was a UPS employee first and joined the army second, and that I needed to put UPS before the army at all times.
This seemed/felt very wrong to me, but at that time I didn't think much of it until I was passed over for management."

you appear to be looking at this as rejection. Is it possible they felt the person who was promoted was actually a better fit/more qualified? Its very likely that they did view your military service and possible deployment to Iraq as a negative. At this point you feel hurt and offended and it appears you're looking to lash out at UPS to compensate for the rejection you feel. Let me try to take another direction without} defending what they did or did not do. As a veteran who served his country I greatly appreciate your service to your country. As a manager who has managed major hub sorts I know what a pain in the but your service would be to the sort as a supervisor. Your slot once deployed to Iraq would be held open and waiting for you. I would not be able to hire anyone to cover you or replace you. I would be strongly discouraged from working any other sups doubles to cover you.If I work another sup from another sort doubles then I am paying that person at an overtime rate. I would basically be forced to run one supervisor short until you return. While we do plan extra people for hourly coverage in the staffing plans we usually do not for managment staffing or we have to fight and beg for an extra body that requires a lot of time and effort. I certainly don't expect you to put UPS before the army but the question I have is are you really giving UPS a fair shake if you apply for promotion knowing you could very well be deployed to Iraq shortly after being promoted?

P.S. If you have a container keep the scorpion as a pet. I have a soft spot for satans minions..

Good luck in Iraq. Get her done and then get the hell out. }

 

[dannyboy]

Tie

If I didnt know you better, your post sounds like only hourly should serve in the military, and never management.

The way you look at things, then that would mean that the doctor at the ER should stay here, and let someone else go. After all, qualified doc are hard to find and ER doc esp. Then of course since we have 2 ER docs from the same hospital, well heck, we cant allow that, who would staff our ER. And I know they dont allow docs to work over 6-8 hours, heaven forbid!

So where would your litmus test stop? Should our district manager go if called or is he just to valuable to let go for the year abroad? As to the docs, how can you justify taking them out of their 500,000 grand jobs and tossing them into an area where they can only make 45,000?

So really, that statement should never been stated, and I am offended by the manager that did. Shame on him/her. As far as coverage goes to cover your slot in your building, the way I understand it there is a bucket full of "unasigned" sups in all districts. That would be a good place to start looking for bodies to cover management that gets sent over seas.

Of course if you insist on only us hourly serving their country...........

d

 

[ok2bclever]

Everything tie said sounded accurate and so management does discriminate to the legal limits (and beyond !) against those active in the military both hourly and salary.

I believe the last time you were talking about this bam it was from the standpoint of harrassment and threatened attendance discipline and intimidation from management for your service time here in the states.

I am wondering how much of these now very positive responses (completely the opposite reaction to the same subject and same management retaliation for the same reasons) is from you being actively in harm's way and how much is because now it is slanted more about going into management.

I personally think it is because of you being in harm's way as we are a very patriotic group here despite our other differences.

With your personal experiences I cannot for the life of me see why you would still be interested in managing with these guys (his local bunch).

I honor the bravery and willingness of our military to attempt to do whatever it is assigned to.

However, the fact that bush put them over there in harm's way under false pretenses and now trumpets a murky ideology of a democracy forced on a foreign nation through military might is very troubling.

Worse, because it appears the puppet government frankly looks like it will be antagonistic to our country in any form it survives in once we take the guns from their head.

If you can figure out what needs to get done over there, do it and bring all our surviving sons and daughters the hell out of there with you as quickly as possible.

 

[tieguy]

"If I didnt know you better, your post sounds like only hourly should serve in the military, and never management. "

no insight into why his ties might be acting the way they are. the law should probably be expanded to mandate the company actually plans to cover the positions of people who get called up.

My second point though was that in fairness to the company maybe bam should have waited until after he got called up before persuing a promotion. He really does not do himself or the company any good if he gets promoted and then gets called up a couple of months later. By the time he gets back he has to learn his new position all over again.

 

[toonertoo]

I guess I look at it differently. You could get cancer tomorrow and be unavailable. You could get hit by a car or a truck in the parking lot. Since his deployment is/ was an unknown, should he not try to continue with his life/career. Or should he put it all on hold til all is perfect. Anyone who has served knows there are unknowns. Anyone who lives knows that. As for UPS having to make a sacrifice, So what, Promote a PT to full time during his duration of service, ever heard of that??? They do it all the time for heavens sake. Now if he is unqualified and passed over then try Honesty, I bet that might work, and would have eliminated all the hard feelings. I think if you get passed over for promotion you should be told why, if they told him it was because of his service, big shame on them. Just my Humble Opinion.

 

[dannyboy]

Tie and Tooner

Its like this, UPS does not have to promote someone to take his position while he is away. There is a whole stable of managment that are unasigned at the district and regional levels. Take one of these people that does not have a "official job" and cover it with that member of management. Our district has at least 10-12 at any time that could fill any position that might open up in an emergency. Therefor there is really no leg to stand on to get a managers job covered.

But you know what, that has opened up a whole can of worms that maybe shoulda stayed closed. Wonder why there are no members of management over there? We have bunches of hourly, and pilots, why not management.........Maybe what the man said is true, if you are a weekend warrior you cant have a place in management at UPS, and it would seem THAT would be the problem here.

If so, that would be VERY against the law.

d

 

[susiedriver]

bamboonga,

Your supe wasn't this Jason guy, was it?

I don't suppose you'll see him covering your flank anytime soon.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/08/06.html#a4334

Be safe.

Sue

 

[trickpony1]

The company is above the laws that apply to everyone else.

 

[tieguy]

danny we have management in the military. we have had several get deployed for stints in Iraq in my district alone.

 

[over9five]

We just got one sup back from a year at active.

 

[bamboonga]

tieguy, honesty at its best. You know...if they had simply taken me into a room, searched me for microphones, and explained all that to me, I would have just said 'okay...I'll withdraw my complaint'. But what they actually did was to say 'Well, I have a son in the marine corps. so I know they would never do that!!! Yyyyyyyyeah, if you could go ahead and vacate your complaint now, that would grrrrreat, mm-kay?' I just wanted to know that was why - to me that's what the DOL investigation was all about. But, see, they didn't do that. What they did instead was paint me as a criminal and a liar for doing my job, then used insanely shady tactics to coerce me into quitting. So you're right when you say I'm lashing out, but not in the way you think. I didn't want to lash out at the point I got passed over for a promotion - I just wanted to know why and their explanation turned out to be bogus...I wanted to lash out at the point this 'investigation' started. They got an MP with the Provost Marshall's office to investigate me for chrissake!!! And their investigation consisted of them badmouthing me and asking that specific files be 'left out' of what my unit administrator sent them. How much more shady can you get than that?

 

[bamboonga]

"By the time he gets back he has to learn his new position all over again."

Actually...by an odd coincidence, I ended up running a post office here (which is not actually my job), among other things. Having worked at UPS I was able to teach all my soldiers how to properly load trucks in 'walls', hydrate, bend at the knees, hand-to-surface (their package abuse would have made a supe yank his hair out), etc. It was a nightmare when I got here - they were climbing over barbed-wire AND concertina to get packages into the postal area.

I also showed the combat engineers how to build slides like the ones we used in the air docks using sheet metal and chains. So, although it's U.S.P.S. regs we're following, for the most part I ended up being a parcel manager whether I wanted to or not.

Sue, dunno who this guy is but I did have a supe by that name (coincidence, I'm sure)

 

[julie]

Bamboonga - First thank you for your service to our country and may God watch over you during your tour in Iraq.

It's probably been said before, but what UPS did to you was illegal no matter how it's sliced and served up. The problem is proving it especially since there is documented record of UPS doing right by some employees. Why they wouldn't treat everyone the same is beyond me, but that's the Borg mentality I guess.

My brother was in a similar situation about 10 years ago. He joined the national guard and his employer gave him a hard time and refused to promote him because of his guard 'absences'. His commanding officer even went to talk to his civilian boss and it did no good. He eventually ended up leaving and accepting a full time guard position. It's hard to prove employers are using illegal tactics, especially when they keep inaccurate records. It becomes a he said/she said situation.

I'm sorry for what your management team did to you. They give us all a bad name. Sometimes though it shows what really matters to you I hope you find something better. UPS certainly doesn't deserve you if that's how they are going to behave.

Good Luck! Stay safe...and let all our men and women serving how much we thank them, love them, and wish them a very quick and safe return.