Contract Boogieman

[El Correcto]

Do you have TCDs?

Yeah, that’s what I started at. TCD’s don’t get 9.5 but they get red circled. You can go full time cover driver, be red circled at the TCD rate and start your 9.5.

 

[El Correcto]

TCD is way better for maintaining the status quo in my opinion. They get paid more and the company from what I’ve seen works them as of full time. I never got days off as a TCD.

 

[542thruNthru]

Yeah, that’s what I started at. TCD’s don’t get 9.5 but they get red circled. You can go full time cover driver, be red circled at the TCD rate and start your 9.5.

That's exactly how it works here. Cover Drivers get red circled at their rate plus their years go towards their progression.

So when he says cover driver he means TCD in your area. What do TCDs make where you are? Just curious.

 

[Bubblehead]

Ok then your a vote no but here our cover driver language is different

 

[PT Car Washer]

Start at the bottom and have a higher top rate.

Bump into Feeders and make the big bucks. Art 22.4 is intended to be an entry level position. Just like PT jobs are. Go from $13/hr PT to $30/hr FT to $100+/yr driving the big rigs. Ain't America great.

 

[BrownArmy]

What do your Casuals/ TCDs make?

Don’t know about TCD’s, like I said, we don’t have many...we’re a random building with a full-time preload. There are plenty of part-time non-driver positions, but folks are either ineligible or don’t want to drive...

Casual drivers who get hired during the free periods make what a new RPCD would make, but they get canned after Peak.

We might hire one or two a year...

 

[El Correcto]

That's exactly how it works here. Cover Drivers get red circled at their rate plus their years go towards their progression.

So when he says cover driver he means TCD in your area. What do TCDs make where you are? Just curious.

30.77.

 

[LagunaBrown]

You keep saying ‘cover drivers’...

It means one thing where you are and something totally different where I am.

Here, ‘cover’ drivers are RPCD’s with everything that entails, they just don’t have a specific route.

I’ve been a cover driver for a decade, my seniority is the same as a guy who bid a route...my bid is ‘cover’.

I haven’t stopped working since I got hired, and I’m at top-rate, with four vacations a year.

I could bid a regular route tomorrow, the only thing that would change is that I’d be on one route instead of twenty.

We have ‘casuals’ who drive during Peak, and we have TCD’s, but not many.

You’re confusing the issue.

Ok now your getting it. Flip it and that is exactly what the vote no page is doing to our cover drivers too. For us a 22.4 is an upgrade to a two tier driver that we have had since 1997.

That is why I been saying from the start of this long thread that it depends on your supplements and riders

 

[BrownArmy]

Ok now your getting it. Flip it and that is exactly what the vote no page is doing to our cover drivers too. For us a 22.4 is an upgrade to a two tier driver that we have had since 1997.

That is why I been saying from the start of this long thread that it depends on your supplements and riders

There wasn’t a time where I wasn’t ‘getting it’.

We’ve been telling you this entire time that the Master is crap, but part of your argument is ‘cover’ drivers, because.

You’re being disingenuous, and churlish.

What you’re saying is, vote YES, because it’s good for you personally, and ‘cover’ drivers, because.

That’s fake news.

Go for it, vote yes.

Just stop calling people ‘sheep’ because they’re doing what you’re doing, voting in their best interests.

As such, I’m voting NO in the best interests of everyone. If this contract passes, I personally will be fine, but those drivers down the line will be screwed four different ways.

But, hey, if it’s good for you, call everyone else sheep.

Talk about a Boogeyman!

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Ok now your getting it. Flip it and that is exactly what the vote no page is doing to our cover drivers too. For us a 22.4 is an upgrade to a two tier driver that we have had since 1997.

That is why I been saying from the start of this long thread that it depends on your supplements and riders

If your supplemental has poor language that allows for lower paid cover drivers, that needs to be addressed at the supplemental level. The language in the master may help the poor language in your supplemental, but it drags down a lot of other areas. That is why your reasoning is backwards.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

There wasn’t a time where I wasn’t ‘getting it’.

We’ve been telling you this entire time that the Master is crap, but part of your argument is ‘cover’ drivers, because.

You’re being disingenuous, and churlish.

What you’re saying is, vote YES, because it’s good for you personally, and ‘cover’ drivers, because.

That’s fake news.

Go for it, vote yes.

Just stop calling people ‘sheep’ because they’re doing what you’re doing, voting in their best interests.

As such, I’m voting NO in the best interests of everyone. If this contract passes, I personally will be fine, but those drivers down the line will be screwed four different ways.

But, hey, if it’s good for you, call everyone else sheep.

Talk about a Boogeyman!

No way dude.
La Goon doesnt call his bros names. Say it isn't so.

Hey La Goon,


You mad bro?

You really mad?

Try to keep "sheep" out of your mouth. Bro.

 

[LagunaBrown]

If your supplemental has poor language that allows for lower paid cover drivers, that needs to be addressed at the supplemental level. The language in the master may help the poor language in your supplemental, but it drags down a lot of other areas. That is why your reasoning is backwards.

You know your ignorance is amazing. There are regions that all ready have two tier drivers just like us. There are also a lot of great language that we have that you don’t. Just admit you can’t stand someone that is voting yes.

 

[LagunaBrown]

There wasn’t a time where I wasn’t ‘getting it’.

We’ve been telling you this entire time that the Master is crap, but part of your argument is ‘cover’ drivers, because.

You’re being disingenuous, and churlish.

What you’re saying is, vote YES, because it’s good for you personally, and ‘cover’ drivers, because.

That’s fake news.

Go for it, vote yes.

Just stop calling people ‘sheep’ because they’re doing what you’re doing, voting in their best interests.

As such, I’m voting NO in the best interests of everyone. If this contract passes, I personally will be fine, but those drivers down the line will be screwed four different ways.

But, hey, if it’s good for you, call everyone else sheep.

Talk about a Boogeyman!

You did NOT “get it” because you obviously did not read the section 38 SWPR language I mentioned like 3 other times.

As far as being a sheep you have graduated. At least now you know what our cover drivers are and that a 22.4 is an upgrade to them.

You also now know our retiree medical will go from a $500,000 cap to unlimited. That means EVERYONE covered by our retirement plan is safe from medical bankruptcy caused by a serious injury or health condition.

You also know we protected our 5 day 8 hour guaranteed work schedule that a lot of you don’t have.

UPS is contributing $129,000 thousand to our pensions (2080 hours) that is well funded.

Ups pays $445 a WEEK to our medical.

And we are getting a $4.15 raise.

So I am glad you realize I am voting yes for my family, my co-workers and my retirees in my region. Because I’m not gonna sell them out because someone online tells me to vote no.

 

[BrownArmy]

You did NOT “get it” because you obviously did not read the section 38 SWPR language I mentioned like 3 other times.

As far as being a sheep you have graduated. At least now you know what our cover drivers are and that a 22.4 is an upgrade to them.

You also now know our retiree medical will go from a $500,000 cap to unlimited. That means EVERYONE covered by our retirement plan is safe from medical bankruptcy caused by a serious injury or health condition.

You also know we protected our 5 day 8 hour guaranteed work schedule that a lot of you don’t have.

UPS is contributing $129,000 thousand to our pensions (2080 hours) that is well funded.

Ups pays $445 a WEEK to our medical.

And we are getting a $4.15 raise.

So I am glad you realize I am voting yes for my family, my co-workers and my retirees in my region. Because I’m not gonna sell them out because someone online tells me to vote no.

I’m not telling you to vote no, I’m telling you why I’m voting no, and you’re still calling me a sheep.

Mkay.

 

[LagunaBrown]

I’m not telling you to vote no, I’m telling you why I’m voting no, and you’re still calling me a sheep.

Mkay.

As long as you can understand why it’s a yes here that’s all I am asking. I’m not asking you to agree. Sorry to call you a sheep.

 

[panther]

I've come to the conclusion that there's the WEST and then there's the rest of us. Happy for ya'll out there. Seriously.

 

[1989]

Why should we accept that we have a National Master, that needs to be corrected by supplements and riders???

Seems to me that it should be the other way around???

Why has it been accepted for decades? The National has been obsolete and fixed by supplements and state laws for as long as I remember.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

You know your ignorance is amazing. There are regions that all ready have two tier drivers just like us. There are also a lot of great language that we have that you don’t. Just admit you can’t stand someone that is voting yes.

Don't care that you're voting yes, just hoping that people reading your reasons will see that they don't make sense. If regions have two tier language, those regions need to fix their language. Don't put it in the master and drag everyone down just because it helps out some places. I agree the language I work under needs improvement, especially the master, so I won't settle for bad language. I'm sure it'll pass before it ever meets my approval, but I have no problem holding out for a better deal.

 

[Superteeth2478]

These are crazy times we live in.
I am amazed by how many Teamsters are getting their info from the vote no page. Now that is not the bad thing. The bad thing is there is no clarity on regional language so most do not understand what each locals negotiated over the last few decades. EVERY local has their own rules and language. I been asking the Vote no guys in my area why it’s a bad contract and they can’t say anything past 22.4 and catch up raises. You ask them to explain and it’s like they got marbles in their mouths. Now I have no problem with a vote either way but “sheep” to me are the ones that blindly follow either side. The vote no movement has certainly come of age in that regard.

You know what's funny? I got my information straight from the Teamsters.org website (the tentative master agreement) and was able to produce my own counterpoints to the language without any help from a "vote no" page from anyone. It wasn't even hard. Much of what can be used to counter the argument that all this new language is "strong" language can be taken straight from what the IBT says the membership wanted.

For instance, the IBT claims the membership wanted less overtime. That can't be denied (a lot of drivers are sick of excessive overtime). That said, how does creating a lower-paid class of drivers that is explicitly stated to not have 9.5 protection fix the excessive overtime problem? It just passes it on to someone else. That's silly. That's not strong language, only a would think that passing the problem on to someone on an unfavorable work schedule that is paid less to be on that unfavorable work schedule thinks that fixes the problem.

 

[LagunaBrown]

You know what's funny? I got my information straight from the Teamsters.org website (the tentative master agreement) and was able to produce my own counterpoints to the language without any help from a "vote no" page from anyone. It wasn't even hard. Much of what can be used to counter the argument that all this new language is "strong" language can be taken straight from what the IBT says the membership wanted.

For instance, the IBT claims the membership wanted less overtime. That can't be denied (a lot of drivers are sick of excessive overtime). That said, how does creating a lower-paid class of drivers that is explicitly stated to not have 9.5 protection fix the excessive overtime problem? It just passes it on to someone else. That's silly. That's not strong language, only a would think that passing the problem on to someone on an unfavorable work schedule that is paid less to be on that unfavorable work schedule thinks that fixes the problem.

Totally valid. That is if you don’t already have a two tier driver. Many areas already have them for a long time and as you can see from this thread they are called by different names and use different rules depending on the area. 22.4 is basically a better two tier language for people that have them and makes it a universal name. Do you know how many people regurgitated the TDU flyer saying “22.4 driver are two tier, $6 bucks less doing sane work, no 9.5 protection and gonna steal our work”.
The reality is here we already have a two tier driver. For 2/3 of the members they have been living with that position since they started work at UPS and the other 1/3 voted it in back in 1997. Now right, wrong or indifferent my answer is truth “We already have a two tier driver that make $10 less an hour doing the same work, making part time pension,no 9.5 protection and we had them 20 years and we still have plenty of work.” So as you see it is an upgrade here in pay, pension and progression pay.
In short if you never had a two tier driver in your supplements or riders it is a big no no for you but if you do have them it makes for an improvement. The 22.4 language did not change any workday workweek rules in the country but it exposes regions that don’t have strong workweeks guarantees like we have here. So once again it really depends on language you have and on your supplements and riders